Do you tip the delivery guy/gal?

In social situations where there is a reasonable expectation on behalf of the service provider that they might receive a tip (taxi, barber, delivery person, etc), I don't like to disappoint them by not giving them anything.

I'm basically doing it because it makes me feel good - for selfish reasons.

The nice feelings engendered are worth the euro or two for me.

For some miserable bastards, the loss of that one or two euro overrides any other considerations so I can totally understand their stance on not tipping.

Ultimately we are all self-centered creatures.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you give random strangers a euro or bc 2? Presumably that would also make both them and you feel good?

I'd imagine it would make us both feel weird.

False equivalence TBH.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So there's an implication that the deliver driver had earned the tip from you. Apart from just doing their job (bring the correct order to the correct house and being pleasant), how have they earned extra money?

I think I've explained my reasoning pretty well. I'd suggest re-reading my post if you're still confused.

Over-explaining bores me.

leggo wrote: »

Here's the problem with the anti-tipping stance (and, for clarity, I don't and never have worked in an industry where tipping is standard)...

If you follow it through, you live in a world where people who work in service industries have zero incentive to go above and beyond the absolute bare minimum. Taxi driving is a good example of this free market economy in action, as it's based purely off what they earn on the job plus tips: if taxi drivers don't have both tipping and accountability (by way of review apps like FreeNow) to keep them somewhat honest, they have no reason not to rip you off whenever an opportunity presents itself. The "but it's the nice/professional thing to do" argument doesn't wash when you weigh that up against it being how they feed and clothe their children.

With varying degrees, you can apply this logic to all industries where tipping is a factor. Though it obviously depends on a case-by-case basis, even if you opt out of it entirely you directly benefit from the tipping system being in play. So that's where people are coming from when they call you miserable/tight for doing so: you are essentially getting an additional service and choosing not to pay for it.

i dont get this bit. there is no adtional service being provided. end of story. i am paying for the service through the cost of the product and through an adition delivery cost that is added to it. if that doesnt cover the cost of the delivery then its the person offering that service that is at fault not the customer.
i am paying whats asked .

in any other industry if the cost of the product and overheads etc is less than the sale price the company cant stay in business so have to give up or raise peices to cover the costs. if a chipper can only charge 4 euro to deliver food then it shouldnt offer the service if it costs more than that.

as i have said before i have no problem tipping when its justified by going abve and beyond. but i fail to see how anyone can can do that by doing the bare minimum

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think I've explained my reasoning pretty well. I'd suggest re-reading my post if you're still confused.

Over-explaining bores me.

Yeah I suppose. You don't like to disappoint people who expect extra money from you. You sound like a real people pleaser.

So they don't gage to earn it, they just have to expect it. Sweet little deal there.

leggo wrote: »

Here's the problem with the anti-tipping stance (and, for clarity, I don't and never have worked in an industry where tipping is standard)...

If you follow it through, you live in a world where people who work in service industries have zero incentive to go above and beyond the absolute bare minimum. Taxi driving is a good example of this free market economy in action, as it's based purely off what they earn on the job plus tips: if taxi drivers don't have both tipping and accountability (by way of review apps like FreeNow) to keep them somewhat honest, they have no reason not to rip you off whenever an opportunity presents itself. The "but it's the nice/professional thing to do" argument doesn't wash when you weigh that up against it being how they feed and clothe their children.

With varying degrees, you can apply this logic to all industries where tipping is a factor. Though it obviously depends on a case-by-case basis, even if you opt out of it entirely you directly benefit from the tipping system being in play. So that's where people are coming from when they call you miserable/tight for doing so: you are essentially getting an additional service and choosing not to pay for it.

Nope. Completely wrong. I expect people to do the standard job spec and charge the rate. I never pay anyone extra out of fear they might rip me off otherwise.

I expect a taxi driver to bring me through the normal, sensible route. I don't pay them extra just to do the job I'm already paying for. If they need to charge more to live, let them charge the higher rate.

God, you're Lowering the bar really low if you expect to be ripped off if you don't pay a tip.

leggo wrote: »

It’s not a matter of opinion. Tipping is an incentive to provide good service, that’s literally what it is. You pay a taxi driver to take you home, your expectations of how he should do so are irrelevant, and by removing one bargaining chip by being anti-tipping you weaken any incentive he may have to go out of his way to help you.

It’s a policy that harms you if you take it to its natural destination. But since they don’t know that that’s how you feel and we do live in a society that tips for good service, it’s a loophole you’re taking advantage of so you both receive the best service possible and save a euro or two along the way. Which is scabby. Have the awkward conversation and tell them you don’t tip if you believe in it that strongly, but of course you’ve already admitted you don’t do that.

Paying the agreed rate is a loophole? You’re talking nonsense.

I’m fine with paying the agreed rate. If you think the taxi driver is entitled to bring you home and add on an extra few euro to tip you off, then I think you’re wrong. I don’t see taxi drivers or delivery drivers as charity cases. They're employed to do a job. I really don't think anyone is reasonably expected to rip you off.

All I want us the basic service. Cut my hair the way I ask, take me from a to b,
at the normal rate, deliver the food I ordered to the correct address within the time promised. It's really simple. No need for a tip for any of that. I treat people as professionals doing a job, not charity cases.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah I suppose. You don't like to disappoint people who expect extra money from you. You sound like a real people pleaser.

So they don't gage to earn it, they just have to expect it. Sweet little deal there.

And I'm sure the buzz of self-righteousness you feel when you stand there for you 80c change is worth it for you.

Like I said, all our choices are ultimately self-serving.

We just both get our kicks from different things

facehugger99 wrote: »

And I'm sure the buzz of self-righteousness you feel when you stand there for you 80c change is worth it for you.

Like I said, all our choices are ultimately self-serving.

We just both get our kicks from different things

The "buzz" I'd get from waiting for change from a delivery driver is exactly the same "buzz" I get from waiting for change in tesco. That's us to say, no buzz at all. Just getting my change.

It's amazing how even asking why people tip is met almost immediately with insults like miserable, self righteous, stingy.

Truth is, people tip Because they feel social pressure to tip then they have to look for reasons to back up why they tip rather than tipping because they already have reasons. That's why the reasons given are so poor and are so often accompanied by insults for even asking.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Paying the agreed rate is a loophole? You’re talking nonsense.

I’m fine with paying the agreed rate. If you think the taxi driver is entitled to bring you home and add on an extra few euro to tip you off, then I think you’re wrong. I don’t see taxi drivers or delivery drivers as charity cases. They're employed to do a job. I really don't think anyone is reasonably expected to rip you off.

All I want us the basic service. Cut my hair the way I ask, take me from a to b,
at the normal rate, deliver the food I ordered to the correct address within the time promised. It's really simple. No need for a tip for any of that. I treat people as professionals doing a job, not charity cases.

You’ve never worked in a service role have you? If you did, you’d know there can be a world of difference between the ‘basic service’ and great service depending on the vibe you get off someone. In most jobs like this, you can totally **** someone over without them even realising and while still being squeaky clean in terms of doing the job you were asked to do. If it’s a taxi driver, it could be doing yourself out of more money than you would’ve with a small tip by being taken the scenic route. If it’s a barber, it could be butchering you or giving you a great haircut. It’s like people who come into shops fully geared up for war when they want a refund and don’t realise that most places can just help them at their discretion if they’re sound about it (and the law is mostly on retailers‘ side there). It’s short-term thinking and anyone who knows the suss knows that it’s thick.

Like I get that you’ve put logic to your attitude so you feel like you’re right, and nobody can stop you not tipping. But I read what you’re saying and I just wonder how many times in your life this attitude has caused you to lose out without you even knowing.

leggo wrote: »

You’ve never worked in a service role have you? If you did, you’d know there can be a world of difference between the ‘basic service’ and great service depending on the vibe you get off someone. In most jobs like this, you can totally **** someone over without them even realising and while still being squeaky clean in terms of doing the job you were asked to do. If it’s a taxi driver, it could be doing yourself out of more money than you would’ve with a small tip by being taken the scenic route. If it’s a barber, it could be butchering you or giving you a great haircut. It’s like people who come into shops fully geared up for war when they want a refund and don’t realise that most places can just help them at their discretion if they’re sound about it (and the law is mostly on retailers‘ side there). It’s short-term thinking and anyone who knows the suss knows that it’s thick.

Like I get that you’ve put logic to your attitude so you feel like you’re right, and nobody can stop you not tipping. But I read what you’re saying and I just wonder how many times in your life this attitude has caused you to lose out without you even knowing.

If a taxi was taking the scenic route then they would be reported to their regulator etc
If a barber gave a bad haircut he would not be paid

You seem to have a very low bar that you set for what you pay for.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There’s absolutely no need to pay people for pleasantries. It’s actually really cringe to pay a waitress for pretending to care about your day or whatever.

I find that such a weird attitude, you think people who reward good service are just lonely and paying for conversation? Sometimes good service is the exact opposite of that and reading a customer’s demeanour then giving them what they need to maximise their experience, for example if I’m busy or chatting and a taxi driver starts ranting to me about what’s on their mind, that’s poor service. Similarly I personally default towards barbers who don’t chat much, don’t make much smalltalk, have a conversation about what I want specifically (and not make assumptions or do what they want with my hair) but not really more. That’s a specific list and I don’t want to be a dick and have to tell them that, so if they can read that all off me and give me what I want then they deserve the few euro extra.

Like you say you worked in service jobs but I have a hard time believing that, or that you were actually good at those jobs, given that that’s your definition and understanding of the difference between good and bad service.

leggo wrote: »

I find that such a weird attitude, you think people who reward good service are just lonely and paying for conversation? Sometimes good service is the exact opposite of that and reading a customer’s demeanour then giving them what they need to maximise their experience, for example if I’m busy or chatting and a taxi driver starts ranting to me about what’s on their mind, that’s poor service. Similarly I personally default towards barbers who don’t chat much, don’t make much smalltalk, have a conversation about what I want specifically (and not make assumptions or do what they want with my hair) but not really more. That’s a specific list and I don’t want to be a dick and have to tell them that, so if they can read that all off me and give me what I want then they deserve the few euro extra.

Like you say you worked in service jobs but I have a hard time believing that, or that you were actually good at those jobs, given that that’s your definition and understanding of the difference between good and bad service.

I think people are saying they tip because the waitress made pleasant conversation with them. I think that's just the reason they give when they have to cone up with a reason. I actually think people tip because they think other people might think they're stingy if they don't tip- which is very different from having a good reason to tip.

You're setting the bar so low for figuring out if the customer wants to chat and what they want to chat about. You do the very basics like hi/hello and welcome etc. And you can gauge the whether the customer wants to talk much or not pretty quickly. It's not high level mind reading, it takes a basic level of reading social cues and body language (along with actual language). It sounds clinical when you break it down, but that's just how it is and it's not rocket science. Some people are talkers, some aren't and all they want is the few pleasant sentiments to grease the wheels between strangers.

No joke, you're setting the bar so low for people doing a public facing job. But maybe I'm a harsh critic because I've actually done the job. If im out for food, I don't need the wait staff to befriend me. Im happy to do the pleasantries and have the craic with whoever I'm out for food with.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

... I actually think people tip because they think other people might think they're stingy if they don't tip- which is very different from having a good reason to tip.

No joke, you're setting the bar so low for people doing a public facing job. But maybe I'm a harsh critic because I've actually done the job. If im out for food, I don't need the wait staff to befriend me. Im happy to do the pleasantries and have the craic with whoever I'm out for food with.

It's bizarre that you keep making these types of statements and looking for reasons for why people tip when they don't agree with it.

You said earlier that you tip waiters even though you don't like doing it. And the only reason you provided for this is that you don't want to talk about the subject of tipping with people.

Your analysis is a reflection of your own thoughts when you begrudgingly provide tips in restaurants. I'm sure the majority of people who tip are happy to do so and not secretly bitter about it as you suggest.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't doubt they they're happy to do so. I doubt they they have any good reasons to do so and that's why even asking why they tip is met with hostility. And when people really try to think of the reasons they tip, they really aren't consistent.

Honestly I think people only tip because other people tip. And other people tip because they think you tip. It would be much simpler if good staff were paid more and the cost was reflected in the price, I'd be fine with that. I've no time for forced conversation and feigned interest in my life. And i pay nothing for the chat of a barber or a waiter or anyone else.

I can't imagine the sense of entitlement you'd need to think your chat is worth money. Massive bang of entitlement regardless of you saying otherwise.

Are there other social conventions that also find tough to navigate? Like waiting for everyone to get their food before starting to eat for example, or saying bless you when someone sneezes?

I can imagine the world must seem a rather strange place to someone who views the world like you do.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don't doubt they they're happy to do so. I doubt they they have any good reasons to do so and that's why even asking why they tip is met with hostility. And when people really try to think of the reasons they tip, they really aren't consistent.

Honestly I think people only tip because other people tip. And other people tip because they think you tip. It would be much simpler if good staff were paid more and the cost was reflected in the price, I'd be fine with that. I've no time for forced conversation and feigned interest in my life. And i pay nothing for the chat of a barber or a waiter or anyone else.

I can't imagine the sense of entitlement you'd need to think your chat is worth money. Massive bang of entitlement regardless of you saying otherwise.

I don’t think you’ve been met with hostility tbh lad. From my own perspective, I think you’re gas craic. You claim to have worked in service but describe ALL of good customer service as “making a bit of chat.” That’s something a 16yo kid who’s based everything they know on TV would say on their first day training for a job. If you said it in an interview for a part-time retail job the interviewer would be wrapping you up and waiting to move onto the next person who got it. It’s not something anyone who worked in a service role with any kind of standards would say.

You’ve zero concept that being sound to people who assist you actually benefits you. Again this isn’t something someone with experience would say, if you’ve worked anywhere in one of these jobs you’d know you can **** someone over without them even knowing, be merely adequate or you can roll out the red carpet and really look after them depending on their demeanour. For every job there’s a million of these little tricks people with a bit of seasoning and cop on know. Being the kind of person who tips gets you seats and spots where there are ‘none’, gets you free stuff, gets you to skip the queue etc. It’s an investment that pays off even if you view it from a purely selfish standpoint and don’t care about being nice. And when you’re around long enough you can gauge out what kind of customer a person is within a few words or even their body language. I guarantee you’re getting eff you service from so many people because of this attitude and that’s just feeding your anti-tipping stance further, all because you’re too stubborn to see the big picture and got sold a pony by a scene in Reservoir Dogs.

Lastly, after all this, for all these strong feelings...you don’t even live your own mantra! You admit that you tip when it’s socially awkward not to! So the most likely course of events in your life is you come into situations, service staff sense your attitude towards them and treat you as such, you get merely adequate service at best, then pay extra for it anyway. That must suck.

leggo wrote: »

I don’t think you’ve been met with hostility tbh lad. From my own perspective, I think you’re gas craic. You claim to have worked in service but describe ALL of good customer service as “making a bit of chat.” That’s something a 16yo kid who’s based everything they know on TV would say on their first day training for a job. If you said it in an interview for a part-time retail job the interviewer would be wrapping you up and waiting to move onto the next person who got it. It’s not something anyone who worked in a service role with any kind of standards would say.

You’ve zero concept that being sound to people who assist you actually benefits you. Again this isn’t something someone with experience would say, if you’ve worked anywhere in one of these jobs you’d know you can **** someone over without them even knowing, be merely adequate or you can roll out the red carpet and really look after them depending on their demeanour. For every job there’s a million of these little tricks people with a bit of seasoning and cop on know. Being the kind of person who tips gets you seats and spots where there are ‘none’, gets you free stuff, gets you to skip the queue etc. It’s an investment that pays off even if you view it from a purely selfish standpoint and don’t care about being nice. And when you’re around long enough you can gauge out what kind of customer a person is within a few words or even their body language. I guarantee you’re getting eff you service from so many people because of this attitude and that’s just feeding your anti-tipping stance further, all because you’re too stubborn to see the big picture and got sold a pony by a scene in Reservoir Dogs.

Lastly, after all this, for all these strong feelings...you don’t even live your own mantra! You admit that you tip when it’s socially awkward not to! So the most likely course of events in your life is you come into situations, service staff sense your attitude towards them and treat you as such, you get merely adequate service at best, then pay extra for it anyway. That must suck.

You don't tho mmivd been met with hostility? I've had far more insults than reasons to tip. And I've actually asked for the reasons people tip. One poster offered 3 insults in a row (miserable, self righteous and autistic) but no actual answer to the simple question about why they tip. That's interesting in and of itself.

I mean, you've made so many predictions about me in this single post. Based on so little info it's pretty embarrassing.

But look, I don't need a waiter to get me into a restaurant when there's no room. Sounds wanky TBH.

Also worth pointing out that I didn't describe "ALL of good customer service as “making a bit of chat.”" that's just something you've read arzewaya.

I've said plenty of times that a smile and treating people pleasantly and with respect generally causes other people to reciprocate. That's just how I behave in normal life. I don't expect anyone to pay me to be pleasant and I would never pay anyone to be pleasant to me.

I've never needed to get into a restaurant when it's full. I'd just go elsewhere. When a restaurant is full and the kitchen is overrun, the service is usually stretched both in front of hours wand in the kitchen. Anyone who's worked in a kitchen would know that. Have you ever Worked in a kitchen?

Maybe you -and all the big tipper posters are getting into restaurants and night clubs because you tip (I'm imagining American style queueing for a nightclub and you're brought to the front of the queue because you tipped the bouncer last time) but that's just not my life.

My God, you describe tipping as an investment. Most people you tip don't even remember you Lol.

It's more Walter Mitty than anything in reality. Most waiters have bugger all influence over food quality or speed. They can maybe sneak you a free drink by stealing from the bar for their tip. But thats about it. You pay for the drink with your tip and think you're getting something for free. Lol.

Tipping culture is going strong. Money for nothing. Sweet deal.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Ok, you're calling out someone else for claiming to not know how to work in the service industry, and then go on and state how you, in your words, "**** someone over", and how you treat those who tip better than those who don't? And others have said the same with delivery, you leave the non-tippers waiting longer (even if within the agreed time).

Not a delivery man, never worked in a job where tipping was a thing. Try again.

But yeah, if you're a dickhead to someone, they'll be a dickhead right back to you. That's just how the world works. If I'm rude to a cashier in the shop, they'll give me all my change in €1 coins. If I'm rude to a delivery man, he'll leave my door open. If I walk into a restaurant and start looking down on the maitre d', maybe they put me beside the door or window so I'm freezing the entire meal. Their job doesn't extend to doing these extra bits like giving me my change in the most convenient way. If I'm ****ty to them, they have every right to be ****ty right back to me and can do so while still fulfilling the remit of their job and I have zero right to moan if they are because I started this ****ty cycle. Someone has to sit in the crap seat in the restaurant, it's not going to be the really sound person who's likely to tip and appreciate the extra work that you put in. May as well make it the scabby person you know is going to look for the first opportunity to get a refund regardless of what you do.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You don't tho mmivd been met with hostility? I've had far more insults than reasons to tip. And I've actually asked for the reasons people tip. One poster offered 3 insults in a row (miserable, self righteous and autistic) but no actual answer to the simple question about why they tip. That's interesting in and of itself.

I mean, you've made so many predictions about me in this single post. Based on so little info it's pretty embarrassing.

No I don't mmivd been met with hostility, whatever that means. If you stopped playing the victim and acting like you were the victim of a hate crime for a minute, you'd find a post with many reasons to tip. Nobody is insulting you, we don't know you to do so. We're saying that this is the attitude people have towards scabby people who bend over backwards to find logic not to give people a euro or two extra if they do a good job (unless it's mildly socially awkward for you, then you compromise everything you believe in). You are the one admitting that that's you. We can only operate off the information you give us about yourself here lad. Don't throw a tantrum because that info paints an unflattering picture, that's one you painted yourself. :pac:

And you still don't understand, you're being wilfully ignorant. I'm not saying you have to tip the waiter to get into restaurants. I'm saying that if you are sound and build a relationship with people who serve you, no matter where you're at or what you're doing, they're more inclined to help you. If you're mean and look down your nose at people who work in certain jobs, and your attitude drips of that here so I guarantee people immediately see through your fake little 'smile and be polite strategy', they won't. It's straightforward. Tipping is just one signifier of an overall attitude. And if you expect someone to go out of their way for you while simultaneously thinking they're beneath you, you're simply delusional.

Do you really think being aggro and insulting to everyone who may not agree with you improves your life more than giving a euro or two to people who do a good job helping you? You’re coming across as aggressive and miserable here tbh, insulting someone just because they believe in something you don’t.

Money makes people go mental lads. :pac:

Do you even realise you’re arguing against the stance “you’re not entitled to be a dick to people” or are you just going through a tough time and fighting with strangers on the Internet about literally anything is the only cure?