Bought Apartment without Parking Space , in error

footfall789 · 23-03-2019 2:59pm #1

Hi, looking for comment

Sister purchased an Apartment 2 years ago in Galway; it was advertised and being sold with a parking space. However with all the excitement of purchasing the Apartment she forgot to mention about a Parking space to her Solicitor and he left it out of the Contract which my sister Signed and the owner signed. Found out later that the parking space has a separate Deed so is not included as part of the Deed of the Apartment. She contacted the Seller and he said that the Car parking space was being sold with the Apartment but for an extra €2000 the same price he paid for it when purchased the Apartment.
She got advice from a Solicitor about this and he said, that this issue is the precise reason that contracts are used , so that everything is laid out in black and white and everybody understands what they are buying /selling. If she went to court it would cost far in excess of €2000 and she may end up paying the Sellers costs as well as her own.
Just wondering if people would agree what her solicitor said.

AndyBoBandy · 23-03-2019 3:01pm

Your sister didn’t read her contract, so it’s 100% her fault.

Gmol · 23-03-2019 3:02pm

Pay the 2k much easier in the long run

Avatar MIA · 23-03-2019 3:04pm

Whatever about the blame apportionment, and it would appear the seller was acting shady, a separate deed with separate contract will require a separate purchase.

myshirt · 23-03-2019 3:05pm

2k is a bargain. Take it and close it out, because they sound like idiots. You should be talking minimum 15k, and in some parts of the country they can go for 30k in time.

cannotlogin · 23-03-2019 3:09pm

Think of it this way, for an outlay of 2k she has:-

1. Fixed the problem
2. Acquired a Space
3. Made her property a more desirable purchase if selling it in future - depending on where its located, the lack of a parking space could seriously devalue the property.

It's also her own mistake, 2k is bargain to fix something like this

tretorn · 23-03-2019 3:12pm

I would just pay it and get legal ownership of the parking spot.

The property will be seriously devalued if she goes to sell it in the future when the parking spot is not hers.

MarkR · 23-03-2019 3:15pm

I actually thought this was about 20 k. Take it at 2 and lesson learnt. No harm to try to bargain, but she'll red that space.

Pawwed Rig · 23-03-2019 3:17pm

For €2k is the solicitor transferring title too? Seems too cheap to me.

manonboard · 23-03-2019 4:37pm

2k is such a cheap price to fix this error.
It has huge benefits to the apartment and is a great value add.

Your sister made the mistake and the solicitor she has was poor for not mentioning something like this. The experience they have should of noted this was something to mention.

I paid 10k for my parking spot. 2k is nothing.

Fol20 · 23-03-2019 6:23pm

Few points to note:

1. It is your sisters fault for not reading her contract or confirming with solicitor of what exactly your purchasing. A good solicitor might have asked to confirm anyway but the onus was on your sister. Personally, i dont enjoy reading all of the legal jargon however she should have confirmed it with solicitor.
2. Purchasing a parking spot on a deed can be considered a commercial purchase which entails stamp of 6pc. If bought with property, it might have been mingled into it but now when you are doing it separately, you will need to talk to solicitor to confirm.
3. Normally speaking deeds for parking spaces in apartment blocks need to be bought and sold to an owner in the management co so the seller has a small audience to advertise to.. - use this to your advantage.
4. Check how much this will cost your sister, the solicitor might feel sorry for you and do it for free(unlikely) but you have nothing to loose by trying.
5. As the deed is seperate to the property, You need to see where you will store this. If its a mortgage property, it might be more risky to give this to the bank as it might go missing so another question you need to think about.
6. For whatever else your sister can think of, it is best if you write it all down before talking to solicitor so that she doesnt forget to broach the point again.
7.Its all about location, location, location. I have heard of parking spaces going for a few hundred k in places like Hong Kong but depending on where ever this apartment is. This might be expensive or cheap - Only you can be the judge of that.

Edgware · 23-03-2019 7:37pm

If she can wrap it uo for 2000 go for it. For letting purposes a parking space is vital. However if tenants dont need a space there may be a rental option.

karlitob · 23-03-2019 7:43pm

footfall789 wrote: »

Hi, looking for comment

Sister purchased an Apartment 2 years ago in Galway; it was advertised and being sold with a parking space. However with all the excitement of purchasing the Apartment she forgot to mention about a Parking space to her Solicitor and he left it out of the Contract which my sister Signed and the owner signed. Found out later that the parking space has a separate Deed so is not included as part of the Deed of the Apartment. She contacted the Seller and he said that the Car parking space was being sold with the Apartment but for an extra €2000 the same price he paid for it when purchased the Apartment.
She got advice from a Solicitor about this and he said, that this issue is the precise reason that contracts are used , so that everything is laid out in black and white and everybody understands what they are buying /selling. If she went to court it would cost far in excess of €2000 and she may end up paying the Sellers costs as well as her own.
Just wondering if people would agree what her solicitor said.

I’m not sure what the problem is to be honest. If she realised before signing that the parking space was omitted then the total price for the property would’ve been €2k more. The parking space isn’t free.

Fann Linn · 23-03-2019 7:46pm

If your sister doesn't want it I might buy it!
What then?

myshirt · 23-03-2019 11:13pm

Op, I can tell you if you were angling at the solicitor having done something wrong and that maybe you had a case, you are so so wide of the mark here.

A parking space in an apartment block in Galway for 2k. Unbelievable. Word will go around about this to enquire about spaces going cheap. That is money for jam there. I'd take it myself. Anyone well networked within Galway will ring around and enquire and get themselves a bargain. If they can do the deal for 5k even it'd be a bargain.

Fol20 · 24-03-2019 12:51am

myshirt wrote: »

Op, I can tell you if you were angling at the solicitor having done something wrong and that maybe you had a case, you are so so wide of the mark here.

A parking space in an apartment block in Galway for 2k. Unbelievable. Word will go around about this to enquire about spaces going cheap. That is money for jam there. I'd take it myself. Anyone well networked within Galway will ring around and enquire and get themselves a bargain. If they can do the deal for 5k even it'd be a bargain.

You wont be able to take it even if you wanted to. I have only had one situation myself where parking deeds were separated and at the time my solicitor mentioned something about insurance for the reason behind it that the parking space needs to be sold to an owner of the an apartment in there. It doesnt need to be sold directly to your sister i believe, but it has to be sold to someone within the block that is paying management fees, insurance etc. One of the other guys on here might be able to explain this legal aspect in layman terms better than me

Guy:Incognito · 24-03-2019 12:56am

What has the previous owner been doing with the parking space the last 2 years?

Youd think theyd have been on touch to try sell it, unless they still park in it.

footfall789 · 04-04-2019 2:01pm

Thanks for all your replies .

My sister does not want to pay the €2,000 for the Car Parking space . So she went to another solicitor who will take on her case and she is going to Court . The new solicitor has said that she has a good case as it was mentioned in the advert that the Apartment came with an added benefit of a Car Parking Space. Also in the original contract ,where the Seller bought the Apartment from the Builder, it states that 'a parking Space' was included with the Apartment although it does not specify what parking space . However, seller has provided a separate deed and documentation that shows that the Car Parking Space was purchased separately for €2000 and has its own deed. I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing , he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space
.

AndrewJRenko · 04-04-2019 2:11pm

footfall789 wrote: »

he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space
.

Did he explain that the price of the parking space might have gone up after she loses the case?

ShaneC93 · 04-04-2019 2:11pm

footfall789 wrote: »

I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing , he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space.

I hope your sister knows what she is doing. From the info you've given the case seems less than guaranteed and I'd say they'll more than likely side with the seller. All to avoid paying €2K for a space - which as others have mentioned is a bargin, even for Galway.

Duffryman · 04-04-2019 2:14pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What has the previous owner been doing with the parking space the last 2 years?
.

I'm curious about this too. Has the sister been using the space anyway, and the OP basically forgetting about it, which would suggest that insofar as both parties were concerned up to now, the parking space had changed hands along with the apartment itself?

If so, might this make any material difference to any legal action?

JJJackal · 04-04-2019 2:15pm

footfall789 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies .

My sister does not want to pay the €2,000 for the Car Parking space . So she went to another solicitor who will take on her case and she is going to Court . The new solicitor has said that she has a good case as it was mentioned in the advert that the Apartment came with an added benefit of a Car Parking Space. Also in the original contract ,where the Seller bought the Apartment from the Builder, it states that 'a parking Space' was included with the Apartment although it does not specify what parking space . However, seller has provided a separate deed and documentation that shows that the Car Parking Space was purchased separately for €2000 and has its own deed. I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing , he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space
.

If she "wins" it will probably still cost her more than 2,000euro?

seamus · 04-04-2019 2:24pm

Oh man, what a risky move over €2k. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd avoid picking at and just pay up. If the owner of the space wins the case, he might refuse to sell it to her, just to spite her, or increase the cost of it to €15k.

Your sister is making a serious mistake. The solicitor has even told her that she may not win.

She also needs to remember that having a solicitor take on your case does not tell you that you're likely to win. A solicitor will take on any batsh1t crazy case and will fight it, if they think they'll get paid at the end. He doesn't really care if he wins or loses, he gets paid either way.

karlitob · 04-04-2019 3:27pm

footfall789 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies .

My sister does not want to pay the €2,000 for the Car Parking space . So she went to another solicitor who will take on her case and she is going to Court . The new solicitor has said that she has a good case as it was mentioned in the advert that the Apartment came with an added benefit of a Car Parking Space. Also in the original contract ,where the Seller bought the Apartment from the Builder, it states that 'a parking Space' was included with the Apartment although it does not specify what parking space . However, seller has provided a separate deed and documentation that shows that the Car Parking Space was purchased separately for €2000 and has its own deed. I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing , he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space
.

Madness.

I hope it’s “no win, no fee”

Notoldorwise · 04-04-2019 3:35pm

seamus wrote:

Your sister is making a serious mistake. The solicitor has even told her that she may not win.

Absolutely. Only winners will be the solicitors..

Humour Me · 04-04-2019 3:38pm

Has she asked the solicitor what his fee is?

karlitob · 04-04-2019 3:48pm

footfall789 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies .

My sister does not want to pay the €2,000 for the Car Parking space . So she went to another solicitor who will take on her case and she is going to Court . The new solicitor has said that she has a good case as it was mentioned in the advert that the Apartment came with an added benefit of a Car Parking Space. Also in the original contract ,where the Seller bought the Apartment from the Builder, it states that 'a parking Space' was included with the Apartment although it does not specify what parking space . However, seller has provided a separate deed and documentation that shows that the Car Parking Space was purchased separately for €2000 and has its own deed. I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing , he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space
.

“Mentioned in the advert” is called intention to treat. Just because a €100,000 Porsche has been mispriced at €10,000 doesn’t give you a right to purchase it at that price.

The contract between the buyer and seller is between the buyer and seller. If I buy a first edition Harry Potter book from a small bookshop on the day it came out for €2.99 doesn’t mean that I can’t sell it at €10,000 in Sotheby’s.

If a farmer buys land from a vendor, it doesn’t mean that he can’t sell off aome frontage.

To be honest, it sounds like your sister is foolish and deserves to waste her money - pity she doesn’t give it to the poor rather than a soliditor.

Although I do have magic beans if she wants to buy it.

Squatter · 04-04-2019 4:40pm

footfall789 wrote: »

..... I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing ,

he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space. :eek:

I hope that your sister knows what she is doing!

Seems to me that her solicitor's view is that s/he has been instructed by his client to take the case and that's what s/he is doing.

Avatar MIA · 04-04-2019 4:44pm

There's likely to be an expensive lesson to be learned here.

But, you're in a no win situation as well, OP. If you convince her not to pursue, she'll always partially blame you for having to pay the extra €2k.:rolleyes:

Tar.Aldarion · 04-04-2019 4:46pm

Oh man, I;d have gone to an ATM to get that €2k, sure it could work out for her but not worth the risk at all. "If for some reason" could very well be the likely outcome.

I'm struggling to see how she would have bought the apartment and not talked through the space.

Pawwed Rig · 04-04-2019 4:50pm

Even if she wins what are the chances that she will be awarded costs? Solicitors fees in a case won't be cheap unless it can settle before court.

Fol20 · 04-04-2019 4:55pm

footfall789 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies .

My sister does not want to pay the €2,000 for the Car Parking space . So she went to another solicitor who will take on her case and she is going to Court . The new solicitor has said that she has a good case as it was mentioned in the advert that the Apartment came with an added benefit of a Car Parking Space. Also in the original contract ,where the Seller bought the Apartment from the Builder, it states that 'a parking Space' was included with the Apartment although it does not specify what parking space . However, seller has provided a separate deed and documentation that shows that the Car Parking Space was purchased separately for €2000 and has its own deed. I hope the solicitor knows what he is doing , he has given a caveat that if for some reason they loose it could cost her up €10,000 and she would still have to purchase the Car Park Space
.

It doesnt really matter what was advertised. The ea normally advertise with a legal spiel that this isnt legally binding. All that matter is whatever contract her solicitor signed.Normally when you buy a property your solicitor would confirm all this to check where parking space is located exactly. It sounds like her original solicitor didnt do this.

seamus · 04-04-2019 4:58pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I'm struggling to see how she would have bought the apartment and not talked through the space.

Solicitor ballsed it up I'd say.

If someone was a FTB or had never bought an apartment before, I can see how they may not even think about the parking space as a separate entity.

Any solicitor though I would expect to have picked it up and asked about it at least once.

Fol20 · 04-04-2019 5:00pm

Keep us in the loop. I suspect on the info you have provided she will loose but im interested to see what happens. Legal aspects can be crazy sometimes on who wins

lawred2 · 04-04-2019 5:01pm

You sure it's not 20k?

04-04-2019 5:48pm

Your sister is a fool to be taking this to court, it’s going to cost her even if she wins and probably more than 2k. Why is she being so stupid?

antiskeptic · 04-04-2019 7:12pm

Abdiel Hallowed Waist wrote: »

Your sister is a fool to be taking this to court, it’s going to cost her even if she wins and probably more than 2k. Why is she being so stupid?

You can take a positive out of it. The sister has been going around life with her up her behind. I mean, if she can't see the utter nonsense she's engaging in here, it's likely she's applied that same nonsensical approach to other areas of her life.

It might cost her legal fees and a price hike in the car parking space.

But it's not a bad thing to get a life lesson and though pricey, it might stand her well

Phileas Frog · 04-04-2019 7:12pm

lawred2 wrote: »

You sure it's not 20k?

By the sound of things, it will be by the time she's finished.

dubrov · 04-04-2019 7:24pm

In fairness costs are generally awarded with the winner.
Assuming this is always true there are 2 scenarios

Scenario 1
OP's sister wins and gains a parking spot worth €2k

Scenario 2
OP's sister loses and has to pay her own and the other party's legal fees = 20k

You would have to be over 90% certain of winning to even consider taking this on.
I bet the solicitor doesn't think the chances of winning are anywhere near that level.
I'd say they is mostly thinking about the probability of themselves getting paid.

The maximum I would consider is the issuance of a solicitor's letter.
After that, it is time to negotiate and ultimately suck it up if 2k needs to be paid.

kirving · 04-04-2019 9:30pm

The "90% sure of winning" part makes perfect sense - on a junior cert maths paper.

I could afford to risk €20 in small claims court fees out of principal for the sake of a €2 item if I knew I was right and just wanted to make life difficult for a shop

But risking €20,000, when she could just buy it outright for €2,000 is absolute insanity. Even if she wins, it'll cost her €2,000 easily.

As far as I can tell the sell isn't even making a profit on it?

ShaneC93 · 04-04-2019 10:17pm

Kevin Irving wrote: »

As far as I can tell the sell isn't even making a profit on it?

OP said the seller showed a document stating he bought it for €2K too.

If I were him now I'd tell the sister she has missed her chance at the discounted deal and go open market, he'd easily get €12K-€15K for it, if it's Galway city centre.

DublinCJM · 05-04-2019 10:57am

I paid €20k for a space with my apartment 16 years ago and it would be next to impossible to sell the apartment on now without one.

€2k for a space is nothing.

And as mentioned above, unlikely that the owner could sell the space on the open market, would have to be to someone who also had a property in the complex.

Avatar MIA · 05-04-2019 12:48pm

DublinCJM wrote: »

… would have to be to someone who also had a property in the complex.

Would still find plenty of buyers looking to have a second car.

antodeco · 05-04-2019 12:52pm

OP, I'll gladly buy that parking space off the owner for 2K. Genuinely. I could easy rent it for €100 a month so I've made a profit after 2 years!

Avatar MIA · 05-04-2019 12:55pm

antodeco wrote: »

OP, I'll gladly buy that parking space off the owner for 2K. Genuinely. I could easy rent it for €100 a month so I've made a profit after 2 years!

I'll rent it off you for €100 per month...

… and sub-let for €150 a month. :pac:

footfall789 · 14-06-2019 4:54pm

Hi Again ,

got feedback from my sister re parking space . Her solicitor is now saying that the Judge may well go the 'Practical' route rather that the Legal one .

The Solicitor was saying that since my sister had an expectation that the parking space was included with the property and it was advertised as such , the Judge may have sympathy on my sister and give it to her because my sister assumed she was getting it.

Would people think the that the Judge would be 'Practical' and disregard the contract and give the parking space to my sister , It seems a bit dodgy to me .

Regards , Footfall.

deandean · 14-06-2019 5:04pm

Here is another possibility as to what's going on here.
Maybe the car parking space is indeed included with the apartment.
Maybe the seller is trying to extract a few extra quid i.e.a scam.
That would explain the low value being sought.

Edgware · 14-06-2019 5:08pm

If it was included it should be stated in the deeds or land registry file. Usually there would be a map showing the location if the space marked in red
and the space number.

The_Conductor · 14-06-2019 5:19pm

As you are effectively seeking legal advice, the provision of which we are not allowed entertain, I am closing this thread.

Bought Apartment without Parking Space , in error

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