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Tenant overstaying past Notice

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  • 05-02-2020 5:14pm
    #1
    AlfaZen
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭


    Hi All - just looking for some advice here.

    I moved to a different city for work about 5 years ago. Rather than sell my house I decided to rent it out to keep my options open if I wanted to return home. In that 5 years I have had 3 different Renters first two were not the best in terms of keeping property clean etc and the second actually caused significant damage to the doors and fittings.

    My last Renter has been very good for the most part. House kept spotless, grass cut, walls painted etc. We did have one issue where a room was sublet to her friend without permission but we worked a solution through there.

    I was made redundant last February and decided to move back to my city. The plan originally was to find a apartment to rent and if the tenant moved out of my house I would move back in there.

    However, it has proven impossible to find somewhere suitable (I have access to my kids every other weekend and need room for them) at the right price for me (prices were 3x the mortgage on my house) so I decided I would move back into my house.

    I gave the tenant 3 months notice of this (She was in the house just over 18 months). Understandably she was not happy. We agreed that she could use her deposit as the last months rent (Dec/Jan). She was due to move out on the 15th of January. She also only paid one third of the rent for November (only noticed this recently).

    3 weeks later she is still in the house. Says she has nowhere to go. I have had calls from an estate agent saying I cannot force her out on the street. They say they may have somewhere for her but it may not be ready for several weeks.

    I am renting a room in a house with 2 others at the moment and had given notice that I would be out by the end of January. They have someone due to move in on the 15th Feb so I need to be gone before then.

    I need my house to be able to have my kids stay with me every other weekend but the situation means I haven't been able to as planned. This is putting a lot of stress and upset on the kids and myself to be honest, not to mention the ex.

    The house was PRTB registered and she was given the correct notice. I am at my whits end with what to do. I could be homeless in next two weeks despite paying a mortgage on my house.

    I feel for her, I really do. but, I need my home back.

    TLDR; Need to move back into my house but tenant is still in there and has stopped paying rent. I need to be out of where I'm renting in about a week.


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    #2
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    If she decides to stay there is nothing you can do. Threshold and even the council will advise her to over-hold. Could take years to sort out. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Get a good solicitor on to this now and issue the correct notices etc.


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    #3
    AlfaZen
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭AlfaZen


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If she decides to stay there is nothing you can do. Threshold and even the council will advise her to over-hold. Could take years to sort out. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Get a good solicitor on to this now and issue the correct notices etc.

    No not what I wanted to hear. I could be homeless myself in a couple of weeks.

    She doesn't have young children but there older children that seem to come and go. Moving in with her is not an option, especially as my younger children would be there every other weekend.


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    #4
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    And people wonder why so many landlords GTFO out of the market.


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    #5
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    AlfaZen wrote: »
    No not what I wanted to hear. I could be homeless myself in a couple of weeks.

    She doesn't have young children but there older children that seem to come and go. Moving in with her is not an option, especially as my younger children would be there every other weekend.


    Best bet is to find a solicitor familiar with this area and be prepared to pay her to leave. Sounds like there is some hope in relation to the EA saying there might be something lined up for her. I know this goes without saying but good reference and all that through gritted teeth.


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    #6
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Mods (apologies) and please delete if against charter - OP could you offer her money to go rather than go down the potentially long and expensive route of the RTB. Could be your quickest/cheapest answer, whilst sucking balls to be in this situation. Or offer to pay for her air b&b for a few weeks, anything to get her out .


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    #7
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    The longer she stays the longer she feels entitled to stay.

    Horrible situation to be in, have watched many of those shows where they cannot physically move her out even though its morally the thing that should be done.

    Agree with offering her a sum of money to get out ASAP. As otherwise she will probably be of the attitude 'I may aswell stay until I'm officially evicted by the courts'.

    Good luck op..


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    #8
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭05eaftqbrs9jlh


    <SNIP> Not sure about the law there so contact RTB for clarification. She has no right to stay at this point if all the correct notice has been served. This b!tch gives all renters a bad name. This carry on is what is dissuading people from being landlords, I hope she gets what's coming to her one way or another. Sorry to hear about this idiotic situation, OP.


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    #9
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    TinyChancer, I'm sure your suggestion was well-meaning, unfortunately it could also see the OP on the wrong side of a harassment/illegal eviction claim. Please don't suggest anything along similar lines again.

    Thanks


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    #10
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,906 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    It took 8 months for us to get tenant out. (Not sure if your tenant is private or Council funded). They continued to pay the rent via RAS which was a bonus, (well we are paying for RAS/HAP on their behalf, but let's not split hairs!), but the Council advised that nothing would happen until we got a Determination Order from RTB. And then they would rehouse.

    Get a dispute opened with RTB tomorrow, no later. It is a process. And it doesn't just apply to RAS/Hap either.

    The way things are going landlords now have to pay to get their OWN house back!


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    #11
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭05eaftqbrs9jlh


    Graham wrote: »
    Mod Note

    TinyChancer, I'm sure your suggestion was well-meaning, unfortunately it could also see the OP on the wrong side of a harassment/illegal eviction claim. Please don't suggest anything along similar lines again.

    Thanks
    Wow, I really can't believe that the law would be on that woman's side. Definitely contact RTB and see what the options are. I was on the tenant side of a situation which has resulted in nearly three years now of cases and tribunals. Hopefully we should see a result this month. March 2018 was when it all started. We could have stayed like this inconsiderate mean woman but we're decent people. It was only when a new tenant was in there a week later at double the rent that we realised that we'd been wronged. We're really hoping to see a favourable outcome but unfortunately there are as many bad landlords as there are tenants and the law seems to only obfusticate matters for parties who are clearly in the right.

    OP I'm really crossing my fingers that there is some recourse for you.


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    #12
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Justice Obedient Ford wrote: »
    ....unfortunately there are as many bad landlords as there are tenants.....

    ...For that to be true there would have to one landlord for every tenant and everyone of them be bad...
    Justice Obedient Ford wrote: »
    and the law seems to only obfusticate matters for parties who are clearly in the right. ..

    What is obfusticated about the law? Which law?


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    #13
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    I hope that this tenant has a permanent full time job. If a tenant knows that whatever costs you incur due to their overholding, you will pursue them for, it will give them a good reason to hurry up the move.
    If the tenant has no job and no assets they will be very difficult to remove unfortunately.
    As has been said by others, get a good solicitor on the case straight away.
    Good luck


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    #14
    AlfaZen
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭AlfaZen


    Thanks all for the replies. I have an appointment with a solicitor tomorrow morning. I hope this can get resolved quickly and I don't end up couch surfing at friends for too long.

    I will post back with any updates should it help with anyone else in a similar position.


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    #15
    GBB
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭GBB


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If she decides to stay there is nothing you can do. Threshold and even the council will advise her to over-hold. Could take years to sort out. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Get a good solicitor on to this now and issue the correct notices etc.

    As a former worker in Threshold, I can honestly say that Threshold NEVER gives any advice to overhold. Get a solicitor to check your Notice of Termination, there were major changes to the Act in June 2019, you may have made a mistake.


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    #16
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Hi I don't mean to be trite but could you move in without throwing her out?


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    #17
    GBB
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭GBB


    Justice Obedient Ford wrote: »
    <SNIP> Not sure about the law there so contact RTB for clarification. She has no right to stay at this point if all the correct notice has been served. This b!tch gives all renters a bad name. This carry on is what is dissuading people from being landlords, I hope she gets what's coming to her one way or another. Sorry to hear about this idiotic situation, OP.

    Tiny Chancer, no need to stoop so low as calling this tenant names, the landlord needs to send his NOT return form to the RTB, they can advise him if it was valid and if the tenant is actually overholding. Shame on you


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    #18
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    GBB wrote: »
    As a former worker in Threshold, I can honestly say that Threshold NEVER gives any advice to overhold. Get a solicitor to check your Notice of Termination, there were major changes to the Act in June 2019, you may have made a mistake.

    So you're vouching for it before you worked there, and after you've left and all the offices you've never working in. Makes perfect sense.


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    #19
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Hi I don't mean to be trite but could you move in without throwing her out?


    You know all the <snips> in this tread... :pac:


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    #20
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    You know all the <snips> in this tread... :pac:

    Apologies obviously not viable.
    Oops and OP apologies and sympathy.


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    #21
    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭Aint Eazy Being Cheezy


    You’ve already gotten good advice OP but I do have one observation. Everyone attacking the tenant for over holding.. she’s only been there 18 months. I’d be annoyed too. I know circumstances change, but that tenant signed a lease in good faith and stuck to her end of it. Why should the owners problem become hers? Landlords should be held to account as well. She should be allowed to remain there for 4 years in total.


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    #22
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »
    You’ve already gotten good advice OP but I do have one observation. Everyone attacking the tenant for over holding.. she’s only been there 18 months. I’d be annoyed too. I know circumstances change, but that tenant signed a lease in good faith and stuck to her end of it. Why should the owners problem become hers? Landlords should be held to account as well. She should be allowed to remain there for 4 years in total.

    Because it's the law and the OP needs to move back in.


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    #23
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »
    You’ve already gotten good advice OP but I do have one observation. Everyone attacking the tenant for over holding.. she’s only been there 18 months. I’d be annoyed too. I know circumstances change, but that tenant signed a lease in good faith and stuck to her end of it. Why should the owners problem become hers? Landlords should be held to account as well. She should be allowed to remain there for 4 years in total.


    If there was some law requiring tenants to stay for a fixed term then grand, but there isn't.


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    #24
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »
    Why should the owners problem become hers?
    Well, because the owner owns the house. If she wants to stay somewhere permanently, she should buy a place.
    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »
    Landlords should be held to account as well. She should be allowed to remain there for 4 years in total.
    Should tenants be forced to stay in a house for the entire tenancy, even if they got a new job in another country?


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    #25
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    the_syco wrote: »
    Well, because the owner owns the house. If she wants to stay somewhere permanently, she should buy a place.


    Should tenants be forced to stay in a house for the entire tenancy, even if they got a new job in another country?

    Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.


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    #26
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If there was some law requiring tenants to stay for a fixed term then grand, but there isn't.

    True but it's MUCH easier to get a tenant (at very short notice) than it is for a tenant to find a new home


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    #27
    AlfaZen
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭AlfaZen


    Just to say thanks again for everyone's inputs and comments.

    I have an update as of this morning. My Solicitor contacted the Estate Agents directly. They advised that they will have somewhere for the Tenant to move into this week. As they had advised the tenant to over-hold it was positioned to them that they could be liable for the any costs associated with breach of Notice period.

    I now have written confirmation that I will have the keys returned to me by Thursday afternoon.


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    #28
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Technocentral wrote: »
    True but it's MUCH easier to get a tenant (at very short notice) than it is for a tenant to find a new home


    At the moment that's true but will the law change when (if) that isn't the case. I've no problem with there being flexibility for tenants, but that has to come with reciprocal rights for people to move back into their own properties. The other option is to have proper long term leases that have significant penalties for either party breaking which would suit a large cohort of LLs, myself included, that don't rent a place we might need to move back into. That doesn't change the fact that a more flexible arrangement is needed by another cohort. The only other option for that second cohort would be to leave properties empty which doesn't help the situation.


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    #29
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    Really good to hear that OP, best of luck with things, glad it worked out for you.


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    #30
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    I hope that this tenant has a permanent full time job. If a tenant knows that whatever costs you incur due to their overholding, you will pursue them for, it will give them a good reason to hurry up the move.
    If the tenant has no job and no assets they will be very difficult to remove unfortunately.
    As has been said by others, get a good solicitor on the case straight away.
    Good luck


    You are bang on the money there. The worst thing that can happen is to get screwed over by someone who has nothing. No point suing them because they have no assets and no means to pay any court ordered damages. If they are only on social welfare payments they will get off scott free. They are essentially immune to civil lawsuits.


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    #31
    AlfaZen
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭AlfaZen


    Just to let you all know I am now back in my home.

    There is a lot of work that needs to be done - just general maintenance and painting. House is in generally ok condition and is clean. I'll be busy over the coming months bringing back up to standard.

    I have changed all the locks and set up the utilities in my name. Hopefully I'll be here for many years to come.

    Thanks again for all the comments and the advice.

    AZ


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