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Cost of visiting a GP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wesser wrote:
    I paid e70 recently for a plumber to spend 6 minutes fixing a leaky tap. GP looks like good value in comparison. might do something that saves my life .


    Plumber had to travel to your home. Possibly an hour or more for the total job Inc travel.

    My doctor does bloods once a week for €30 a pop. He starts the surgery an hour early for this. He gets through around 20 people in just over an hour. €600 in his pocket before he starts regular surgery at 65 per visit.

    Another local doctor has a skin check clinic. 100 euro for less than 10 minutes he's pulling in over 500 per hour each Saturday from 8am to midday. He's booked up weeks in advance. Skin clinic is a room at side of his house. He's not even paying rent!


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    bonjurkes wrote: »
    Let me tell you the recent experience I had,

    - Had to go to GP to get referral to a a consultant (General Surgeon) (because I am not allowed to go there by myself) costs €60
    - GP asks me do you want public or private. I said private (as I don't want to wait for a year to see the doctor)
    - I get referred to a public doctor which has private examining rooms, right next day (this is such a robbery. A public doctor is treating on private rooms with premium price) which costs another €150.
    - Consultant blatantly lies to my face (I'm sorry there is no nicer word for this) and says that I can have the MRI till the end of the week (it was Tuesday and I was supposed to get it till Friday). Then he will decide for operation.
    - 2 weeks later, already asked to 4 hospitals for MRI appointment (2 private and 2 public). 1 Public MRI is broken. Only 1 private one calls back and asks me for my details and then says "queue is a bit long you might have to wait for a month". And this MRI costs €290.

    You know what happened eventually? I said screw it, went back to my own country, got MRI 2 hours later, an operation was needed, had the operation after 2 hours which was all on my expense.

    In Ireland, even thou you have private health insurance, even you pay for everything yourself, have to wait God knows for how long.

    I paid €60 euro just to get a referral to a consultant. To see my GP (for referral) I had to wait for a week. Consultant can't even say "we need MRI for your case but you will have to wait a month", just blatantly lies and says "of course we can fix you till Christmas time" (which means 2 months later).

    I have to pay health related taxes from my salary plus private health insurance costs and can't even get decent health service in a timely manner even on private field. This is such a bullcrap.

    There was only 1 time I had to go to A&E, because my GP couldn't manage to fix my flu. She sent me to A&E, got X-ray, blood test and urine test, and got a prescription for a different brand of antibiotics and then I fully recovered. I had to go to GP 4 (four) times to get this issue fixed. First time "get some paracetemol and nurofen" this will be €50. Second time, antibiotics for 3 days, another €50. Third time, same antibiotics for 1 week, which is another €50. Then got sent to A&E as it was before bank holiday, luckily it was for free.

    I am paying this health taxes for 3.5 years, and I could benefit from it for only 1 time! Just to get examined at A&E because my GP didn't do her job properly.

    I don't have any trust left to A&E as you have to wait for a long time and it's doubtful if you will get proper treatment or not but now I don't even trust to GP or consultants here and of course I still have to pay sh*tloads of money for this and wait forever.


    Flu is a virus , so antibiotics won’t cure it .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Flu is a virus , so antibiotics won’t cure it .

    Yet some people demand them, another few years they'll be useless through overuse


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,808 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    So say €60 is the average GP charge... a doctor on average might see about 12 patients a day. That’s 720 euros a day or 3600 a week.

    Im unsure how they get compensated by the medical card but...

    That’s a turnover of about €187,000 annually.

    Costs would be big such as insurance, phone, internet, electricity, heat, secretary or PA, cleaner, supplies and medicines etc... so a good chunk of the €87,000 would be costs but still leaves a nice chunk but would be heavily taxed too and business would want to save also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭bonjurkes


    Flu is a virus , so antibiotics won’t cure it .

    Thanks for fixing all Irish health system with just one sentence.

    Jokes aside you have a good point, I told my symptoms to my GP and A&E, I got prescribed Germentine which fixed me eventually, after 3rd try. They didn't told me what is my sickness even at A&E, which explains Irish health system.

    Just take these and you should be fine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭bonjurkes


    wrangler wrote: »
    Yet some people demand them, another few years they'll be useless through overuse


    How does that actually work? Can I get my GP to prescribe me antibiotics just because I want it? If yes, it's fault of GP. Afaik you can't get antibiotics just by yourself from pharmacy and even you use antibiotics they just give you required dosage.


    Medicine and pharmacy sector is super good here actually. Just giving you required amount and charging you way too much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    bonjurkes wrote: »
    Thanks for fixing all Irish health system with just one sentence.

    Jokes aside you have a good point, I told my symptoms to my GP and A&E, I got prescribed Germentine which fixed me eventually, after 3rd try. They didn't told me what is my sickness even at A&E, which explains Irish health system.

    Just take these and you should be fine.

    Flu will take 10 days + to go through you. people lose patience I suppose, I'd need to have flu it a while before my GP would give me antibiotic and I'm an asthmatic.
    I don't know why they don't do a sputum test before prescribing, you'd imagine that'd be good practise instead of trial and error.

    Haven't had flu since getting the vaccine every year:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Strumms wrote: »
    So say €60 is the average GP charge... a doctor on average might see about 12 patients a day. That’s 720 euros a day or 3600 a week.

    Im unsure how they get compensated by the medical card but...

    That’s a turnover of about €187,000 annually.

    Costs would be big such as insurance, phone, internet, electricity, heat, secretary or PA, cleaner, supplies and medicines etc... so a good chunk of the €87,000 would be costs but still leaves a nice chunk but would be heavily taxed too and business would want to save also.

    I dont think you know anything about this industry and are making it up out of thin air.
    most Gp s would see 30 to 40 a day. a variable percentage would be medical card and so the Gp is paid a flat fee of between 4 and 30 euro a month per patient. definitely not 60 per contact. income from vaccinations bloods and mat care aswell.
    Outgoings are wages and software licences and indemnity insurance mainly and depend on how many staff you had.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    caff wrote: »
    They'd need to hire a radiographer to run the xray machine and a room to use it in. Most single GP practices wouldn't be able afford it. One of the larger multi go ones or a coop might.
    A acquaintance of mine went into her nearest GP in London with a sizeable breast lump. The secretary asked her what her address was and when she told her said she was just one street outside the catchment area for that GP surgery and told her to go to the right one. The girl was in tears begging them to see her. So the secretary asked her what was so urgent. This was with a queue forming behind her. She hesitated but eventually told the nosy bint of a secretary who still sent her on her way. After extracting personal information from her. She had to find which GP surgery was the right one and then wait three weeks for an appointment. And yes it was cancer.

    Doctors receptionists in the UK are notorious for this kind of behaviour. They see themselves as protecting the dr from his patients, Dragons .. I have encountered the same in A and E here; best tactic is to tell them you intend making a formal complaint.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,654 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Wesser wrote: »
    I dont think you know anything about this industry and are making it up out of thin air.
    most Gp s would see 30 to 40 a day. a variable percentage would be medical card and so the Gp is paid a flat fee of between 4 and 30 euro a month per patient. definitely not 60 per contact. income from vaccinations bloods and mat care aswell.
    Outgoings are wages and software licences and indemnity insurance mainly and depend on how many staff you had.

    Outgoings may often include rent. In Dublin anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,808 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Wesser wrote: »
    I dont think you know anything about this industry and are making it up out of thin air.
    most Gp s would see 30 to 40 a day. a variable percentage would be medical card and so the Gp is paid a flat fee of between 4 and 30 euro a month per patient. definitely not 60 per contact. income from vaccinations bloods and mat care aswell.
    Outgoings are wages and software licences and indemnity insurance mainly and depend on how many staff you had.


    If a GP saw 40 people in a day. Bearing in mind most are 9-5 Mon - Friday with an hour lunch.

    200 people over 5 days

    35 working hours after lunches, that’s about 7 minutes per consultation.

    That simply doesn’t add up, not doable, not achievable to administer quality of care with those sort of pressures. If it was a case of a prescription needing to be updated and a quick health check ok, but the variety of reasons people need their GP the average time a consultation takes, no. I’m may not be a doctor but I do know several.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Strumms wrote: »
    If a GP saw 40 people in a day. Bearing in mind most are 9-5 Mon - Friday with an hour lunch.

    200 people over 5 days

    35 working hours after lunches, that’s about 7 minutes per consultation.

    That simply doesn’t add up, not doable, not achievable to administer quality of care with those sort of pressures. If it was a case of a prescription needing to be updated and a quick health check ok, but the variety of reasons people need their GP the average time a consultation takes, no. I’m may not be a doctor but I do know several.

    Again.... i work in this industry ( am not a GP but work alongside).... you do not.
    most GP s work 4 days. seeing 30 on a regular day and 40 on a crazy day. most gp s work 4 days a week and definitely do not finish at 5. Plus out of hours at evenings and weekends. Most GP s are working under severe severe pressure and there are widespread articles all over the media about burn out in GPs and the need for more GPs. 12 patients a day would be a walk in the park. You simply do not have any knowledge of this industry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭lisasimpson


    I know in limerick theres 2 wall in doctors over by the hospital. One is 30 euro which is v handy i find esp when you know whats wrong like tonsils etc
    Also from talking to 1 doctor i know theirprofessional insurance cover is v expensive


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭171170


    GPs will spend 4 months training in ED. Every Xray taken in ED or anyone else in hospital is overread by a radiologist to reduce the chances of something being missed. Say a GP has the system you want and does a CXR in someone with a cough. It shows a pneumonia which is picked up but also a single rib lesion that is missed but turns out to be a metastases. I can't imagine many (or any) GPs are going to be comfortable with that.

    I think this is one of those things where the less you know about it, the simpler it seems. There's a reason why there are radiographers and radiologists and they need years of training.

    Hence my observation that they might be able to interpret SIMPLE x-rays! (I assume that you were so eager to pontificate that you overlooked that word in my post!)

    Only an idiot would expect a GP to have the same level of competence and expertise as a consultant radiologist - and I am not an idiot!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    171170 wrote: »
    Hence my observation that they might be able to interpret SIMPLE x-rays! (I assume that you were so eager to pontificate that you overlooked that word in my post!)

    Only an idiot would expect a GP to have the same level of competence and expertise as a consultant radiologist - and I am not an idiot!

    Take my example of going to VHI Swiftcare after an accident after I fell over sideways, injuring my foot in a very painful way. I had zen examination and X-ray, after which the doctor there said he couldn’t himself see a break, but that the image would later be reviewed by an Orthopaedic consultant, and that he would phone me if said consultant found anything. I had huge difficult weight-bearing, but was just stepping into a taxi outside to go home and rest it, when the doctor came rushing out the door, calling me back. The Orthopaedic consultant had identified two broken bones in the foot, and I was given boot and crutches and I was nearly back to normal after 4 weeks.

    Now, it wasn’t at all critical that the less trained doctor hadn’t spotted the break, and the outcome would have been the same even if the Orthopaedic consultant had only seen the X-ray next day. It would only have been a matter of inconvenience going back in another taxi to get the requisite boot and crutches. A GP led X-ray service could be in this league, with follow-up consultant review of image. Most cases are people with a condition that doesn’t require instant fully accurate diagnosis. In the case of a chest X-ray the GP will be able to assess whether there is a pneumonia that requires an immediate antibiotic to get the situation under control, but that the X-ray be reviewed over next days by a consultant radiologist to rule out, as much as the image can do, what might be a likely malignant process underlying it.

    I think there is a need for many more small Imaging, Phlebotomy & Specimen Collection Clinics serving GPs. A hypothetical example, I develop a painful cough with a bit of fever and some darkish sputum and go to my GP in, say Ranelagh, then he would listen to chest and might still be in a bit of doubt as to whether it’s a self-limiting virus or could there be a bacterial pneumonia in a portion or two of my lungs. He wants to spare an unnecessary and useless antibiotic if chest is clear of potentially serious infection and then sends me to the Community Imaging & Laboratory Service (or whatever it might be called) that he and other GPs in the wider area are subscribed to. M

    It’s 4pm, but I don’t seem to be that terribly ill, so can wait until 9am next morning when the CILS in Rathmines opens. They will have the electronic referral sent by my GP, I show up and the radiographer takes the X-ray and asks me to wait in the lounge (where there’s a coffee machine) until my GP (or one of a pool of on duty GPs assigned to check images if one’s own GP is not available at that time) has looked at the image. It turns out I have a bit of pneumonia, so GP then produces an electronic prescription for pharmacist to process. An attached pharmacy would be an advantage. As it is not one for opiates etc, it doesn’t have to be written by hand.

    Within a couple of days the image will have been seen by a consultant radiologist, who is trained to spot things accurately without having to spend much time looking at it. Hypothetically she sees perhaps something that warrants further imaging or a fast-track referral to a specialist clinic in St James Hospital, so she produces that referral electronically with a notification to my GP. All the while complying with GDPR etc.

    Ideally this is the way primary care should work with good back-up services without everybody necessarily always having to turn up at A&E.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    171170 wrote: »
    Hence my observation that they might be able to interpret SIMPLE x-rays! (I assume that you were so eager to pontificate that you overlooked that word in my post!)

    Only an idiot would expect a GP to have the same level of competence and expertise as a consultant radiologist - and I am not an idiot!

    I don't think I overlooked anything. What's a simple Xray? Ankle or wrist or something like that? You need a radiologist to overread an xray. There is no system in place for GPs to take xrays and for them to be overread by a radiologist.

    Why are there radiographers? Doctors aren't trained to perform Xrays.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    171170 wrote: »
    Hence my observation that they might be able to interpret SIMPLE x-rays! (I assume that you were so eager to pontificate that you overlooked that word in my post!)

    Only an idiot would expect a GP to have the same level of competence and expertise as a consultant radiologist - and I am not an idiot!

    there is no such thing as a simple xray. again people who only have partial knowledge of the industry / how things work. subtle signs of cancer could be missed by someone only partially trained and result in delayed diagnosis.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    A acquaintance of mine went into her nearest GP in London with a sizeable breast lump. The secretary asked her what her address was and when she told her said she was just one street outside the catchment area for that GP surgery and told her to go to the right one. The girl was in tears begging them to see her. So the secretary asked her what was so urgent. This was with a queue forming behind her. She hesitated but eventually told the nosy bint of a secretary who still sent her on her way. After extracting personal information from her. She had to find which GP surgery was the right one and then wait three weeks for an appointment. And yes it was cancer.

    Lily, if that lump persists, do not be afraid to be pushy. Advocate for yourself and disregard dismissiveness. I developed an “old lady” cancer in my 20s.

    I know someone who had a lump in her breast. She got an urgent referral to the hospital and they refused to do scans on her because she was too young to have breast cancer. I think she was 31 at the time? She flat-out refused to leave until they ignored her age and did the scans. It was cancer, and they had wanted to send her home.

    It's always important to advocate for yourself. Even if you do turn out to be wrong, it's better than the alternative and it'll give you peace of mind. If you struggle to speak up around healthcare staff, bring someone with you to the appointment who you can trust to do it for you.


  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    My GP is €65 a visit. I have MS and the medication I'm on for it suppresses my immune system so I pick up a lot of sniffles and chest infections. I've had 5 or 6 GP visits this year so it has been costly. I have to get bloods done every so often for my MS medication and that's another €20 a go to my GP. Throw the cost of prescriptions and health insurance (I know the insurance is optional) on top of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    171170 wrote: »
    My dentist takes x-rays and interprets them - for free - as part of my PRSI-based annual check up.

    I assume that teeth are simpler to x-ray, but I'd imagine that GPs would/should be able to take and interpret simple x-rays, as they would all have spent time in A&E as part of their training.

    Dentists are highly skilled professionals in a very specialised area.

    Your GP is a general doctor who is expected to know about anything from a sore toe to meningitis and often a sore tooth too. I dont think it would be reasonable to expect a GP to be a skilled radiologist.


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