Greatest Irish Person

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 8:14pm

CDfm wrote: »

In this context great is someone significant and of substance. In his era Ireland and Britain were the same Kingdom and he became its greatest General & Prime Minister.

The JFK of his day and he was a World Leader up there with the Greatest.

You might as well scratch Geldof of the list -what has he ever done for Ireland.

The list is shíte, I'll give you that: the very fact that Aodh Mór Ó Néill, the man who achieved Ireland's greatest military victories against the English in open battle (Eoghan Rua Ó Néill in Benburb in 1646 is behind him) is not on it speaks to that fact. But that ceolán Louis Walsh managed to get on it....

Nevertheless, by your above definition of 'greatness' then Hitler is one of Germany's "greatest" people, and Cromwell is one of England's 'greatest' people?

But what did Arthur Wesley ever do for Ireland? His benefit to Britain is clear. I, however, mean Irish Ireland not colonial Ireland.

By the by, saying Ireland and Britain was the same kingdom sounds just a bit too keen to accept the British state's little invention, the Act of Union, and disregard the fact that the Irish people had no say in the creation of that supposedly "united" kingdom. There's another history there screaming under the suffocation of your nice neat little civilised sentence of "unity", the history of Cáth Chéim an Fhia in 1822 and much else which resisted that artificial British nationalist political imposition upon Irish society, the Act of Union, which you have, alas, clearly accepted as the only legitimate narrative of this period in Irish history.

Rebelheart · 30-03-2010 8:19pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Does being the greatest Irish person mean that you had to do something for your country?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Well, that is probably perfectly true if you are a scientist who has given enormous advantages to the world. No problems there.

However, if your "greatness" is based upon defending the very state which is occupying your home country, as was the case with Arthur Wesley, that is an entirely different matter, in my view. Would Vidkun Quisling, for instance, be considered a "great" Norwegian, considering he was clearly 'someone significant and of substance'?

Permabear · 31-03-2010 1:41am

This post has been deleted.

major bill · 31-03-2010 1:45am

charles stewart parnell would get my vote!!!!!

wolfe tone would be a close second.

sorry for not discussing it more!!!!:P

CDfm · 31-03-2010 9:55am

Rebelheart wrote: »

The list is shíte, I'll give you that: the very fact that Aodh Mór Ó Néill, the man who achieved Ireland's greatest military victories against the English in open battle (Eoghan Rua Ó Néill in Benburb in 1646 is behind him) is not on it speaks to that fact. But that ceolán Louis Walsh managed to get on it....

*resisting Jedward quips*

So politics aside can we put a list together as I am sure that both Wellington and Aodh Mor O Neill are streets ahead of Louis Walsh and merit inclusion before him.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

major bill wrote: »

charles stewart parnell would get my vote!!!!!

wolfe tone would be a close second.

sorry for not discussing it more!!!!:P

We should be putting forward a proper list with merit for inclusion and probably put a poll together.

It would be a nice way of showing of the History Forum on Boards.

Boardsies love votes.

We could probably follow it up with the greatest Irish Scumbag from History -which could be fun too

Martin 2 · 07-04-2010 6:06pm

The result of the poll (see OP) in alphabetical order is:

1 Bono (1960 – )

2 Noel Browne (1915 – 1997)

3 Michael Collins (1890 – 1922)

4 James Connolly (1868 – 1916)

5 Stephen Gately (1976 – 2009)

6 John Hume (1937 – )

7 Phil Lynott (1951 - 1986)

8 Pádraig Pearse (1879 – 1916)

9 Mary Robinson (1944 – )

10 Adi Roche (1955 – )

Source: Irish Independent

RTE are going to make TV documentaries on 5 of these greats and then have a vote to determine the number one.

Disappointed that there are no writers or scientists in the list but happy that John Hume and Noel Browne made it.

McCruiskeen · 07-04-2010 6:19pm

Martin 2 wrote: »

The result of the poll (see OP) in alphabetical order is:

5 Stephen Gately (1976 – 2009)

FFS, with the greatest respect all he has ever done is make crappy music and then go and die.

This is embarressing.

Would the US vote for Justin Timberlake as the greatest ever american??

How could any intelligent person vote for him? And these people can also vote in general elections (I guess that explains the state of the country).

CDfm · 07-04-2010 6:36pm

Disappointed Dana didnt make the cut when Adi Roche and Mary Robinson did.

The list makes Dustin as a Eurovision entry less embarressing.

SlabMurphy · 07-04-2010 6:38pm

Lauder wrote: »

Very surprised not to see Wellington there. No other Irishman has had such an influence on the world.

Some very low-brow names there too...(Daniel O'Donnell???, Adi Roche?,, Bono? Colin Farrell, etc..) Bit of a mockery really.

Also, were is Edmund Burke? Henry Grattan? Edward Carson? Montgomery?

Well if Arthur Wellesley is seen fit to be on it, then why not have Lord Haw Haw William Joyce on it as well as he was just as much an ' Irishman ' as Wellesley.

SlabMurphy · 07-04-2010 6:40pm

CDfm wrote: »

Disappointed Dana didnt make the cut when Adi Roche and Mary Robinson did.

The list makes Dustin as a Eurovision entry less embarressing.

Yes if Daniel O'Donnell and Stephen Gately could make it on the list why not Dustin.

major bill · 07-04-2010 6:40pm

what a joke that gately got number 5 no disrespect to the man or anything.

Bono???? fairplay to him he put ireland on the map a bit with his music but com'on seriously.

hope collins or connolly wins it, only logical candidates there.

McCruiskeen · 07-04-2010 6:45pm

Let's just hope Bono doesn't finish as "number 2"

major bill · 07-04-2010 6:53pm

McCruiskeen wrote: »

Let's just hope Bono doesn't finish as "number 2"

Flamed Diving · 07-04-2010 6:54pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Gately will prob win it. Seriously.

Good money is still on my man.

K4t · 12-04-2010 2:50am

Michael Davitt is incredibly under-appreciated in Irish history. Not many people, nevermind an Irish man, can hold the title of influencing Gandhi. "Mahatma Gandhi attributed the origin of his own mass movement of peaceful resistance in India to Davitt and the Land League." wiki

It really is a joke of a list. Most likely surveyed on O'Connell street.:rolleyes:

Exile 1798 · 12-04-2010 9:55am

It’s not just some of the names of the list that are absurd, but the whole concept of their being a "greatest Irish person ever."

It's complete folly to even think like this.

CDfm · 12-04-2010 1:02pm

Is it Liam Neeson or Michael Collins thats on the list because in the Michael Collins movie wasnt Alan Rickman cast as Dev and isnt he normally cast as the baddie

oops wrong movie :cool:

grenache · 15-04-2010 5:49am

CDfm wrote: »

Is it Liam Neeson or Michael Collins thats on the list because in the Michael Collins movie wasnt Alan Rickman cast as Dev and isnt he normally cast as the baddie

Rickman was cast perfectly for that role then

PomBear · 15-04-2010 5:59am

James Connolly, for me by a country mile

Morlar · 15-04-2010 11:34am

Exile 1798 wrote: »

It’s not just some of the names of the list that are absurd, but the whole concept of their being a "greatest Irish person ever."

It's complete folly to even think like this.

I don't think it's an absurd notion, in fact highlighting these figures has the potential to be educational to a lot of people. So the idea behind having the list I don't see as flawed it's just that it's an internet poll & so was manipulated by gay advocacy groups to include stephen gately on there as if for a nanosecond his achievements ranked up there along with giants like Michael Collins and Wolfe Tone etc.

If the list was moderated to take this into effect it could be a worthwhile exercise if it encourages people to think about our countries history rather than recently dead, gay boyband singers.

Exile 1798 · 15-04-2010 11:57am

Morlar wrote: »

I don't think it's an absurd notion, in fact highlighting these figures has the potential to be educational to a lot of people. So the idea behind having the list I don't see as flawed it's just that it's an internet poll & so was manipulated by gay advocacy groups to include stephen gately on there as if for a nanosecond his achievements ranked up there along with giants like Michael Collins and Wolfe Tone etc.

If the list was moderated to take this into effect it could be a worthwhile exercise if it encourages people to think about our countries history rather than recently dead, gay boyband singers.

I think it is absurd.

If the question was who was the most influential political leader, most important literary figure, most significant artist then that might lead to an interesting and educational discussion.

But "greatest Irish person ever?" Is as silly a question as "what's the greatest song ever"?

sensibleken · 15-04-2010 3:32pm

seconding Aodh Mór ó' neill, or Gránuaile

personally i think its a pathetic list. with the exception of o connell and tone every figure is from the 20th century. another example of the myopic view of our history that a great deal of the population have.

personally id rather have bosco win than most of the people on that list (louise walsh?)

Hugo Drax · 15-04-2010 3:36pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Gately will prob win it. Seriously.

Lord Kitchener.

WhoDat · 24-04-2010 1:35am

I voted for Oscar Wilde on the original list. Just such an incrediably brilliant writer. I'm very disappointed that no writers made it to the short list. We come from a country that is admired globally for the wealth of excellent writers we have produced, and yet we don't seem to have any respect for them.

Of what's left, James Connolly should win. He's an icon of Irish history, even more so than Pearse or Collins, in my opinion.

If Gately or Bono win, it will be truly embarrassing. Let's be honest, if Gately wins it'll just be because he's dead. What has he done for Ireland? Nothing. All he did was spend some time in a ****ty boyband who, funnily enough, were an embarrassment to this country, and then died. No disrespect to the guy or anything, but the only reason he's on the list is because he died recently. If he is voted the greatest Irishman of all-time, I will die inside. It would be like a slap in the face to people like Connolly, Pearse, Collins, Wilde, Yeats, etc., who actually did great things for Ireland.

Bono, on the otherhand, is a tax-dodging, egotistical twat. If I never saw or heard from him again, it'd be too soon.

walrusgumble · 24-04-2010 3:05pm

K4t wrote: »

Michael Davitt is incredibly under-appreciated in Irish history. Not many people, nevermind an Irish man, can hold the title of influencing Gandhi. "Mahatma Gandhi attributed the origin of his own mass movement of peaceful resistance in India to Davitt and the Land League." wiki

It really is a joke of a list. Most likely surveyed on O'Connell street.:rolleyes:

at least davit would be a candidate that all poltical parties and groups could agree on

walrusgumble · 24-04-2010 3:07pm

CDfm wrote: »

Is it Liam Neeson or Michael Collins thats on the list because in the Michael Collins movie wasnt Alan Rickman cast as Dev and isnt he normally cast as the baddie

oops wrong movie :cool:

dev and countess markveich (sp) outide Dáil Éireann 1926. "if I can sign it, so can you"

walrusgumble · 24-04-2010 3:17pm

people in my opinion worth considering, in no particular order, people who did something worthy enough that put ireland on the map (for good reasons)

Daniel O'Connell
Dr Paddy Hillery
Sean Leamass
Michael Davitt
James Connolly
Fr McVeary (The Homeless Campaigner)
Dev
Michael Collins
Mary Robbinson
James Joyce
Lady Gregory
Countess Markveic (sp)
Rory Gallagher (the musician)
Phil Lynott (there before bloody U2)
Maureen O'Hara (well gotta get the ladies in, and she is a good one)
John Hume
Sean O'Casey
John Count McCormack
Paul McGrath (Without wishing to sound profane but using the word, but The MAN is a pure, bone fide legend)
CS Parnell

Bono is annoying, but sure look, some of our best people like George Bernard Shaw, Joyce, Beckett and many others fecked out of this country to make themselves. I would like to consider Dr Noel Browne but he allienated himself and others (jumping to various parties, stamping his foot like a child when he did not get his way, he should have stuck in their on fought on - he had good and honest intentions though)

Are we blind but how come there are not so many women in contention?

Norwayviking · 03-06-2010 5:41pm

Rebelheart wrote: »

Well, that is probably perfectly true if you are a scientist who has given enormous advantages to the world. No problems there.

However, if your "greatness" is based upon defending the very state which is occupying your home country, as was the case with Arthur Wesley, that is an entirely different matter, in my view. Would Vidkun Quisling, for instance, be considered a "great" Norwegian, considering he was clearly 'someone significant and of substance'?

NO!!!!!!!

InTheTrees · 03-06-2010 9:52pm

Roger Casement.

(the diaries were forged!)

CDfm · 03-06-2010 11:30pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Roger Casement.

(the diaries were forged!)

i read an article by one of his northern relatives and they were dead embarressed by him and it wasnt his homosexuality :pac:

Blisterman · 08-06-2010 3:41pm

Did they ever release the 5 winners?

CDfm · 08-06-2010 4:10pm

walrusgumble wrote: »

dev and countess markveich (sp) outide Dáil Éireann 1926. "if I can sign it, so can you"

rofl

Blisterman wrote: »

Did they ever release the 5 winners?

It always amazes me that you had women like Kate Tyrell and that are always overlooked in these things.

In Maritime circles Kate Tyrell was also the first ship owner to fly the irish ensign/flag on her vessel in Liverpool I believe and the first female ship owner on the Llyods list. She used to specialise in tramp shipping and munitions which sail boats were better for handling apparently.She would probably have thought -the vote -thats for wimps.

I was reminded of it on a Newstalk Programme recently.

The tyrells had a boatyard in arklow and buil and designed Gypsy Moth III and Asguard II

Jimbob1977 · 08-06-2010 4:35pm

Tom Crean, Antarctic Explorer, would be a worthy winner. He was undoubtedly a very courageous and selfless man. The only drawback was that he served in the Royal Navy on British expeditions. That fact might not "sit well" with some Irish people.

The Duke of Wellington hated the fact that he was born in Ireland - 'being born in a barn does not make someone a horse'.

Fratton Fred · 08-06-2010 5:14pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Duke of Wellington hated the fact that he was born in Ireland - 'being born in a barn does not make someone a horse'.

Maybe there should be a sticky "Common misconceptions and Myths in Irish History"

This could be number one, followed by the Drogheda star and crescent myth!!

CDfm · 08-06-2010 5:19pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Tom Crean, Antarctic Explorer, would be a worthy winner. He was undoubtedly a very courageous and selfless man. The only drawback was that he served in the Royal Navy on British expeditions. That fact might not "sit well" with some Irish people.

good choice

The Duke of Wellington hated the fact that he was born in Ireland - 'being born in a barn does not make someone a horse'.

I think that is wrongly attributed to Wellington when it is attributed to be said of him by Daniel O'Connell.

The poor old Duke! what shall I say of him? To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.
Daniel O'Connell, in a speech (16 October 1843), as quoted in Shaw's Authenticated Report of the Irish State Trials (1844), p. 93

I never know what to make of Wellington ,but in this context, as he had been Prime Minister at the time of Catholic Emancipation he persuaded the King George IV to allow Catholics , Presbyterians etc to enter parliment. As I understand it while politically against it he wanted to avoid a revolt in Ireland and the Kings Consent was needed to relax the Oath of Supremacy. Church of England and all that.

As a Victorian conceit it can be read as meaning he thinks he is Jesus.

That said, it is such a clever witticism that he may have borrowed it.

maxxie · 08-06-2010 5:46pm

Michael Collins
Jack Lynch
Sean Lemass
Jim Larkin
Phil Lynott
John Hume
Bernadette Devlin
Cu Chulainn

CDfm · 08-06-2010 5:58pm

maxxie wrote: »

Sean Lemass

I dont know about the rest of them but what is Charlie Haughey's Father in Law doing on the list :pac:

Jimbob1977 · 08-06-2010 8:38pm

I bow to your superior knowledge of the Duke of Wellington, Fratton Fred

I'd never heard of Tom Crean until four years ago. My mum bought me a book about his Polar adventures and I couldn't put it down. It was heroism from an age of discovery. His modesty and shyness meant that his exploits are largely unknown to many Irish people (until the Guinness advert)

CDfm · 08-06-2010 11:17pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I bow to your superior knowledge of the Duke of Wellington, Fratton Fred

I wouldnt worry about it. Fred stopped short of acknowledging that the British had to rely on an Irish man to lead them to victory at Waterloo.

Its like Parnell led the campaign against flogging in the British Navy, whereas the British Navy brought us tobacco and the potato .

Fratton Fred · 09-06-2010 12:49am

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I bow to your superior knowledge of the Duke of Wellington, Fratton Fred

I'd never heard of Tom Crean until four years ago. My mum bought me a book about his Polar adventures and I couldn't put it down. It was heroism from an age of discovery. His modesty and shyness meant that his exploits are largely unknown to many Irish people (until the Guinness advert)

it is one of those sayings that no one ever looks up because it is accepted as coming from Wellington. i think it was snickersman who enlightened us on here.

CDfm wrote: »

I wouldnt worry about it. Fred stopped short of acknowledging that the British had to rely on an Irish man to lead them to victory at Waterloo.

Its like Parnell led the campaign against flogging in the British Navy, whereas the British Navy brought us tobacco and the potato .

Rum, Sodomy and the spud

:D

dr gonzo · 09-06-2010 2:22am

tl:dr. Dunno if its been mentioned already but since theres discussion about Artie Wellesley i thought i might throw this one out.

What about Shackleton?

CDfm · 09-06-2010 10:43am

dr gonzo wrote: »

What about Shackleton?

An Irish guy who was always on hand to rescue English polar explorers who got in to bother. Is that the shackleton you mean

CDfm · 09-06-2010 10:46am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Rum, Sodomy and the spud :D

I wasnt going to mention sodomy but they did invent the boarding school

getz · 09-06-2010 10:47am

how about the rev patrick bronte ? or even my irish grandad

CDfm · 09-06-2010 11:11am

getz wrote: »

how about the rev patrick bronte ?

his real name was Prunty and he changed his name to Bronte probably as it soulded more exotic and Lord Nelson was Earl of Bronte.

or even my irish grandad

I d vote for him provided none of his daughters wrote crap books that were inflicted on others for the leaving cert.

Bah -victorian chick lit.

Fratton Fred · 09-06-2010 11:24am

CDfm wrote: »

An Irish guy who was always on hand to rescue English polar explorers who got in to bother. Is that the shackleton you mean

Aah, now I understand how the Anglo-Irish thing works.

Rescue people - Irish
Kill people - English :-))

Admiral Cunningham was born in Rathmines I believe, he was a great Admiral and very heavily decorated by not only the UK, but also France, Belgium, China and the US.

Probably not the greatest Irishman, but worthy of a mention I believe.

getz · 09-06-2010 12:07pm

CDfm wrote: »

his real name was Prunty and he changed his name to Bronte probably as it soulded more exotic and Lord Nelson was Earl of Bronte.

I d vote for him provided none of his daughters wrote crap books that were inflicted on others for the leaving cert.

Bah -victorian chick lit.

i was in haworth on sunday,and i went into the parsonage museum,i would recommend it to anyone,in one of charlottes letters she says that her granfather was hugh brunty from drumballyrony,and her dad patrick took the name bronte from his hero nelson,i am not to keen on the sisters books myself,but i just love their poems,he educated his children himself,he changed the child working hrs law in britain,to limit 9 year olds to working only a 10hr day.before that they would be chained to the looms for 12hrs at a time so they woudent walk away

MarchDub · 09-06-2010 12:14pm

getz wrote: »

how about the rev patrick bronte ? or even my irish grandad

Patrick Bronte cared not a spit about Ireland or the Irish - attempts to link him in notwithstanding. The primary source for this is Elizabeth Gaskell - he asked her to write the life of Charlotte after the latter's death and supplied her with background information.

Although he was born in Co Down Gaskell states [with his blessing] that in Yorkshire "He was far removed from his birthplace and all his Irish connections; with whom indeed he cared little to keep up any intercourse and whom he never revisited after he became a student at Cambridge".

MarchDub · 09-06-2010 12:18pm

getz wrote: »

i was in haworth on sunday,and i went into the parsonage museum,i would recommend it to anyone,in one of charlottes letters she says that her granfather was hugh brunty from drumballyrony,and her dad patrick took the name bronte from his hero nelson,i am not to keen on the sisters books myself,but i just love their poems,he educated his children himself,he changed the child working hrs law in britain,to limit 9 year olds to working only a 10hr day.before that they would be chained to the looms for 12hrs at a time so they woudent walk away

I agree the museum in Haworth is worth a visit - I've been there a number of times. I was first there years ago and again last year. It has improved greatly with much primary material. The small writings of the Bronte children on little note paper were fascinating.

I love all the Bronte novels.

MarchDub · 09-06-2010 1:07pm

CDfm wrote: »

I d vote for him provided none of his daughters wrote crap books that were inflicted on others for the leaving cert.

Bah -victorian chick lit.

We're getting off topic - but I wanted to answer this. The Brontes were an amazing break from the usual Victorian novel in that their work displays human cruelty, passion and especially violence in a way that other Nineteenth century writers did not. Some critics at the time were appalled but their work stands alone - and without the honeyed sentiment that Dickens, for example, so loved.

Greatest Irish Person

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