2019 Nfl Draft

eagle eye · 02-03-2019 6:09pm

Haskins will be first off the board anyways and Lock second. I'd place Murray in a category which includes Grier, Browning, Stidham and Findley in that you are not sure what you are getting.
Browning is an interesting one, he has a great arm and has had some awesome games but he makes mistakes too. Murray you can see getting destroyed as he attempts to run sometime.
Big difference between him and Wilson is smarts. Wilson is a great reader of the game both pre-snap and as the play unfolds.

Foxtrol · 02-03-2019 7:35pm

Guffy wrote: »

I never said he was run first but he does run. He ran for a 1,000 yards this year.

Im not saying he wont be good, he may grow to carry weight in 2 years time. Im saying its a risk trading up for a guy as light as him and starting him this year. Why on earth would someone trade up to the top 5 for a guy they will start in 2 years when he's not exactly elite elite either.

I know there's no sure thing but there are factors you take into account in order to mitigate risk

This is the first time you've mentioned that your concern trading up for him to start now and I'm in full agreement that this probably wouldn't be wise. Teams rarely trade up when they're in the win now window anyway and few drafted QBs are able to start on day one

Your earlier comparison and concern was tying Murray to RG3, when they have very different playing styles.

Paully D · 02-03-2019 9:16pm

That’s Metcalf going in the top 10 anyway!

Billy86 · 02-03-2019 10:10pm

Guffy wrote: »

But the point is that Wilson cut a lot of weight before the combine in order to run faster in the 40. His playing weight was a lot bigger more than that.

Murray put a lot of weight on to look bigger for the combine. His playing weight is normally not that big. Murray likes to run and linebackers are big.

Im not saying he doesnt have the potential to have a great career. Im saying is that he is light and has just an equal chance of having a similar career to Teddy B as he does Wilson.

I am not saying anything about his height. Although i will point out that 6 foot was the line of no return for baker last year. 5'10 appears to be the new line which just goes to show that height is irrelevant to a degree, if your good enough

Actually, this has Wilson at 201lbs in college - https://gopack.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1177 - while I've seen varying amounts for Murray but typically around 195lbs. Wilson has/had a bit more bulk sure, but there is very little between the two, and Wilson likes to run also - he has something the most fifth most scrambling yards of all time I think it is despite only turning thirty about three months back, and at the way he is going is likely to be second only to Cam Newton and Michael Vick.

I get what you mean though, and if whichever coach has him goes full on Mike Shanahan/RGIII on him though and decide he needs tp run-run-run-run-run, and when injured just run-run-run-run-run it off... yeah I imagine his career would be over before his rookie contract (maybe a better example since Teddy is 6'2, 215lbs and not much of a runner). I don't think I'll ever get over how needlessly reckless Shanahan was that year, at the back end especially.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2019 2:29am

Paully D wrote: »

That’s Metcalf going in the top 10 anyway!

I'm equally excited and scared by him. His size, raw power, and speed are amazing but his lack of experience and agility, alongside his and repeated injuries, make him a huge chance of being a bust.

Always Be Closing · 03-03-2019 6:41am

As long as Chiefs get Baker I'm happy out

phatkev · 03-03-2019 11:42am

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm equally excited and scared by him. His size, raw power, and speed are amazing but his lack of experience and agility, alongside his and repeated injuries, make him a huge chance of being a bust.

Yeah from the small sample I've seen from him it seems running in a straight line is his entire route tree

Always Be Closing · 03-03-2019 2:51pm

Or Nasir Adderley!

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 03-03-2019 4:23pm

Metcalf ran a slower 3 cone drill than Tom Brady. Arguably the most important drill for receivers and he bombed. Not even worth a first with his injury record imo.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2019 8:21pm

I know it was going to be a stacked DL class but some of the stuff today has been crazy.

Polite looks like he will likely free fall though after this weekend. Testing and personality red flags.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2019 10:37pm

Lots of rumours that the Cardinals are picking Murray at #1. I personally don’t see it happening, but it is so widespread there must be at least one team source that is leaking it (Kingsbury is being quoted as one of them).

I’m trying to work out what the benefit of using this story as a smokescreen is if it isn’t true. The obvious easy answer is to trade down for more picks, but what is their strategy? Most teams don’t move up unless it is for a QB, so are they hoping a team loves Murray so much that they’d give away the massive haul of picks to move up in the draft from a team that really likes him themselves? Surely that would scare a team away if anything.

Hazys · 06-03-2019 4:33am

Before people get too high on DK Metcalf...he ran slower cone and shuttle drills than Tom Brady did at the combine.

Tom Brady: 7.2 cone, 4.38 shuttle
DK Metcalf: 7.38 cone, 4.5 shuttle

Always Tired · 06-03-2019 5:00am

Murray has bust written all over him to me. just because he had Baker type stats doesn't mean everything. that conference they play no defense and the Oklahoma system makes QBs look good. he doesn't have the intangibles Mayfield does.

if the Cards take him at 1 that's just so boneheaded, but i hope they do so i can keep betting against them every week.

I can see them basically being the Browns of the next decade, being awful every year, desperate for a QB every draft, and still always picking the wrong guy, and being bad again year in year out.

id trade down. LA has that division on lock for the foreseeable future, Seattle is still miles better than they are, and the 9ers are way further along in their rebuild. Using a number 1 pick on a QB with 1 year college experience after taking Rosen so high is ludicrous. like throwing good money after bad. Not all Rosens picks were his fault last year either some were flukes, and the whole team and the coaches all sucked not just him. I don't like him but I'd let him play another year and trade down for more pieces and maybe get a QB later.

with the Browns Bills and Jets having got their guy last year there are less teams looking to draft QBs. Jags are gonna get Foles. So that leaves Giants, Phins, Skins, and I don't think they're gonna necessarily use a high pick for a QB either as they all have veteran QBs on the roster and all have huge needs on defense in a draft with plenty of DL/pass rushers that are more sure things (Giants have no pass rushers, the other 2 teams can't stop the run)

Guffy · 06-03-2019 10:24am

Hazys wrote: »

Before people get too high on DK Metcalf...he ran slower cone and shuttle drills than Tom Brady did at the combine.

Tom Brady: 7.2 cone, 4.38 shuttle
DK Metcalf: 7.38 cone, 4.5 shuttle

He slipped during his run.

Paully D · 06-03-2019 12:21pm

Another really good read:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/3/6/18252702/kyler-murray-no-1-pick-nfl-draft-undersized-quarterback

Kyler Murray’s measurements are all the rage right now, but NFL teams need to be smarter about much more than short quarterbacks. There were lessons to be learned from the combine about which players are most desirable in the modern NFL.

KrustyUCC · 06-03-2019 12:59pm

Interesting read

Casserly: Murray struggled in Indy; Rosen available

Less than a week after Arizona Cardinals general manager Steve Keim gave a lukewarm response on Josh Rosen's future as the team's starting quarterback, the Cardinals are apparently looking elsewhere.

NFL Network analyst Charley Casserly said Tuesday on Up to the Minute that an executive from another team informed him the Cardinals are shopping Rosen.

In the event Rosen is moved, it sets up a potential scenario for the Cardinals and first-year head coach Kliff Kingsbury to select quarterback Kyler Murray with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft.

There are apparently concerns surrounding Murray, though. Casserly points out a litany of issues he has heard surrounding the former Oklahoma quarterback's interview process at the NFL Scouting Combine.

"Well, he better hope Kingsbury takes him No. 1 because this was not good," Casserly said. "This was the worst comments I ever got on a high-rated quarterback, and I've been doing this a long time. I've probably been doing it longer than you're alive.

"Anyway, leadership -- not good. Study habits -- not good. The board work -- below not good. Not good at all in any of those areas and raising major concerns about what this guy is going to do. Now, people say, we're going to compare him to [Patrick] Mahomes, we're going to run an offense like Mahomes, we're going to run an offense like Baker Mayfield. Well, you can't. ... Those guys are much different. Those guys, you never question about their ability on the board, you never question about their leadership ability, their work habits, they were outstanding in those areas. This guy is not outstanding in those areas. It showed up in the interview."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001021202/article/casserly-murray-struggled-in-indy-rosen-available

eagle eye · 06-03-2019 2:54pm

Anybody what would take Kyler Murray over Dwayne Haskins or Drew Lock shouldn't have a job.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 06-03-2019 5:11pm

Guffy wrote: »

He slipped during his run.

https://twitter.com/BrettKollmann/status/1102799455516938240

Slip is a very generous term. And even still, he looked like a baby giraffe. No way you should be slipping like that on that surface.
Something he would've been preparing for a long time so I'm not entirely sure how it being a "technique problem" takes the stink off it (as it says in the tweet). It was an awful performance by him in that drill.
His 20 yard shuttle was similarly awful. Those 2 drills seem to be considered the most important drills for WRs.

Foxtrol · 06-03-2019 6:17pm

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

Slip is a very generous term. And even still, he looked like a baby giraffe. No way you should be slipping like that on that surface.
Something he would've been preparing for a long time so I'm not entirely sure how it being a "technique problem" takes the stink off it (as it says in the tweet). It was an awful performance by him in that drill.
His 20 yard shuttle was similarly awful. Those 2 drills seem to be considered the most important drills for WRs.

Looks like his preparation focused more on his strengths rather than wanting to improve on weaknesses. Not really the ideal trait for an NFL player so hopefully he was just getting bad advice rather than having a mindset like Polite.

Knex* · 06-03-2019 9:09pm

Not sure saying "just a technique problem" is really valid here. Technique matters. They need to be able to come in and out of their breaks without stumbling, and Metcalf failed doing this which is somewhat consistent with his college tape.

May be harsh to judge him on 1 take, but every other player at the combine has the same circumstances. He was historically bad.

I do hope for his sake that he tidies it up for his Pro Day however.

Itssoeasy · 06-03-2019 11:43pm

Knex. wrote: »

Not sure saying "just a technique problem" is really valid here. Technique matters. They need to be able to come in and out of their breaks without stumbling, and Metcalf failed doing this which is somewhat consistent with his college tape.

May be harsh to judge him on 1 take, but every other player at the combine has the same circumstances. He was historically bad.

I do hope for his sake that he tidies it up for his Pro Day however.

That's why I like the idea of a pro day. It gives a player who may not have done as well as they should have at the combine redeem themselves in a friendly environment with players they know.

Paully D · 07-03-2019 12:54am

eagle eye wrote: »

Anybody what would take Kyler Murray over Dwayne Haskins or Drew Lock shouldn't have a job.

From the tape I’ve watched so far, Drew Lock is absolute rubbish IMO.

He has “complete bust under Elway in Denver” written all over him.

That said, I didn’t like Mahomes either so what do I know :pac:

eagle eye · 07-03-2019 11:52am

Paully D wrote:

From the tape Iâ€™ve watched so far, Drew Lock is absolute rubbish IMO.
He has â€œcomplete bust under Elway in Denverâ€ written all over him.
That said, I didnâ€™t like Mahomes either so what do I know

I think Lock will be a solid starter at worst in the NFL.
I'm a bigger fan of Haskins, I think he is the best QB to come out of college since Andrew Luck. Very exciting prospect.

Paully D · 14-03-2019 11:05pm

https://twitter.com/getupespn/status/1106194999232872451?s=21

Couldn’t agree more with Riddick’s comments about Pro Day’s in that clip.

thomond2006 · 15-03-2019 4:04pm

How do pro days work? Do the colleges provide them for free to players?

Foxtrol · 15-03-2019 4:36pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

How do pro days work? Do the colleges provide them for free to players?

Nearly all the players that have declared for the draft from the school take part in measurements and drills (many like those at the combine). It is in the environment that they are used to and the drills run by their coaches, so they’re really set up to succeed. It allows guys who weren’t invited to the combine to show themselves off to scouts and gives a second chance to guys who attended the combine and did poorly or skipped parts of it.

As far as I know the schools cover all the costs. The school however gets a lot of benefits to their program when guys get drafted, so it isn’t really all out of the goodness of their hearts.

Always Be Closing · 15-03-2019 6:00pm

I'd rather Rosen than Murray. And I don't rate Rosen

mikemac2 · 15-03-2019 6:40pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

How do pro days work? Do the colleges provide them for free to players?

Matt Cassell never started a game at QB in four years at USC

His pro day is supposed to have been very impressive and he was drafted in the 7th round by New England and has since made a stack of millions

A chance to shine

Frankie Cortese · 17-03-2019 9:24am

Where will Rosen end up? Giants? For a second round pick, I’d take him but they gotta improve that OL infront of him or he’s gonna get creamed.

eagle eye · 17-03-2019 6:04pm

Frankie Cortese wrote:

Where will Rosen end up? Giants? For a second round pick, Iâ€™d take him but they gotta improve that OL infront of him or heâ€™s gonna get creamed.

Yeah the Giants FA and draft should be all about that offensive line. They have a wonderful running back and they need to improve pass protection.
I'm not sure Eli has much left in him but to be fair he hasn't had the chance to be very good over the last couple of seasons due to the lack of pass protection.

the baby bull elephant · 18-03-2019 3:57pm

https://youtu.be/Y9EAnLHj2v4

Different take on Metcalf compared to the backlash that came after his 3 cone.

Knex* · 19-03-2019 10:31am

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah the Giants FA and draft should be all about that offensive line. They have a wonderful running back and they need to improve pass protection.
I'm not sure Eli has much left in him but to be fair he hasn't had the chance to be very good over the last couple of seasons due to the lack of pass protection.

Zeitler from Browns will make a massive difference. Solder and Hernandez played well last year after a rocky start to the season. The starting center, Halapio broke his ankle in game 2 last year after starting the season very well.

So you've 4 of the 5 spots that should be more than serviceable in a line that improved quite a bit towards the end of last year once they booted out Flowers and Omameh for Brown and Chad Wheeler.

Wheeler is pretty atrocious, in all honesty. Has a better attitude than Flowers and not as penalty prone, but he gets beat very often. Just thankfully it's not on Eli's blind side. Definite requirement to improve on him and then hope the 5 guys can gel.

Backup center Spencer Pulley was resigned, and he played about average in the 2nd half of the season too. Not the worst backup. W heeler can play the swing tackle role if required.

It's the first time in years that I've felt reasonably OK about our line and where it is headed.

KrustyUCC · 19-03-2019 3:30pm

Yeah we need a RT but apart from that the line should be OK

I can Gettleman going heavy on D in the draft as we have lots of holes there

Question is will Haskins fall to 6 and do the Giants like him enough to draft him there?

eagle eye · 19-03-2019 6:39pm

KrustyUCC wrote:

Question is will Haskins fall to 6 and do the Giants like him enough to draft him there?

If Haskins gets to 6 then whoever make the decision not to take him should be sacked immediately.
Haskins should be going no.1 as in teams should be giving whatever it takes to get to no.1 to get him.

KrustyUCC · 19-03-2019 7:21pm

Not sure he's that much of a slam dunk that he should be no 1 overall but def at six the Giants need to build for post-Eli so should grab him

Some discussion that Gettleman will go D, Giants have a poor year and get a QB high next year

Blut2 · 19-03-2019 7:48pm

If they don't get a QB until the 2020 season the Barkley signing will look even more ridiculous. In that case he'll either be almost, or fully out of contract by the time any young QB starts hitting his stride in 2021 or 2022.

eagle eye · 19-03-2019 8:04pm

KrustyUCC wrote:

Not sure he's that much of a slam dunk that he should be no 1 overall but def at six the Giants need to build for post-Eli so should grab him

He's a better prospect than Murray. Imo and I've been saying this for quite a while, he is the best prospect to come out of college since Andrew Luck.
I believe a couple of the so called draft experts have been saying this in recent times but I was saying it before it was reported in the media.

Always Tired · 20-03-2019 1:57am

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Not sure he's that much of a slam dunk that he should be no 1 overall but def at six the Giants need to build for post-Eli so should grab him

Some discussion that Gettleman will go D, Giants have a poor year and get a QB high next year

No chance NYG takes a QB rd 1. If they were gonna do that they would have kept OBJ. Their pass rush is abysmal and the draft is deep at DL/DE guys who are much easier to predict as being starter quality.

Knex* · 20-03-2019 10:24am

Always Tired wrote: »

No chance NYG takes a QB rd 1. If they were gonna do that they would have kept OBJ. Their pass rush is abysmal and the draft is deep at DL/DE guys who are much easier to predict as being starter quality.

I don't agree with this tbh.

Two first round picks, there is every chance NY take a QB round 1. OBJ trade has no impact on it at all. Gettleman said in his press conference the other day that he intends on drafting a QB.

Knex* · 20-03-2019 2:42pm

https://twitter.com/mikegarafolo/status/1108330561196691457?s=21

News Carver · 20-03-2019 4:51pm

I dreamt my Chiefs moved up to grab Bosa last night

Then I woke up

Deadmou5e · 20-03-2019 10:36pm

Knex. wrote: »

I don't agree with this tbh.

Two first round picks, there is every chance NY take a QB round 1. OBJ trade has no impact on it at all. Gettleman said in his press conference the other day that he intends on drafting a QB.

If he doesn’t he deserves the sack immediately in my opinion but to his defence, I feel he’s stuck between a Rock & hard place. It’s widely known the love the Mara’s have for Eli. When McAdoo benched him 2 years ago it was said the Mara’s backed the decision but they clearly didn’t as ultimately (not entirely) it cost him his job.

Gettleman is just saying what the owners want to hear, him speaking good of Eli makes him look good to the owners but he’s fooling no one if he thinks Eli is going to play all 16 games regardless if they draft a QB or not!

I think they take Haskins. Really interested to see what Oakland does draft night, have a feeling Gruden will do something crazy, like swap firsts & give up the #27 to SF to get Bosa or along them lines.

jester1980 · 21-03-2019 12:32pm

eagle eye wrote: »

He's a better prospect than Murray. Imo and I've been saying this for quite a while, he is the best prospect to come out of college since Andrew Luck.
I believe a couple of the so called draft experts have been saying this in recent times but I was saying it before it was reported in the media.

I hate this line by the experts, best QB since Luck/Manning etc

I heard last year Darnold was the best QB since manning, then there was goff and Wentz the best double ever in the first round,

Like some excellent players but i just hate the term best since............

jester1980 · 21-03-2019 12:34pm

Knex. wrote: »

I don't agree with this tbh.

Two first round picks, there is every chance NY take a QB round 1. OBJ trade has no impact on it at all. Gettleman said in his press conference the other day that he intends on drafting a QB.

I think they should take one as well but werent they supposedly in love with Herbert, maybe they solid up the team and fininsh bottom 5 next year (possible with manning) and have a chance at TUA, herbert or even seen Fromm ridicukously tipped going high.

human 19 · 26-03-2019 11:34pm

jester1980 wrote: »

I think they should take one as well but werent they supposedly in love with Herbert, maybe they solid up the team and fininsh bottom 5 next year (possible with manning) and have a chance at TUA, herbert or even seen Fromm ridicukously tipped going high.

If the do that, I really dont think they will finish bottom 5 next year. With an improved O-line, Eli will have more time for progressions rather than checkdowns. I thought one of the reasons he was throwing checkdowns last year with men open down the field , was that he conditioned himself to get rid of the ball within about 1 second, so he wouldnt get pummeled.

If he has more trust in the O-line he can take more time. Having said that , I still think his long downfied passes over the past 3 years have been Very erratic in accuracy, so it may not make much difference.

Anyway, if they keep Eli and go defence and RG on the 1st 3 picks, I would guess they go 8-8 or 9-7 next season.

I really want Haskins or Murray, though.

Foxtrol · 27-03-2019 12:30am

human 19 wrote: »

If the do that, I really dont think they will finish bottom 5 next year. With an improved O-line, Eli will have more time for progressions rather than checkdowns. I thought one of the reasons he was throwing checkdowns last year with men open down the field , was that he conditioned himself to get rid of the ball within about 1 second, so he wouldnt get pummeled.

If he has more trust in the O-line he can take more time. Having said that , I still think his long downfied passes over the past 3 years have been Very erratic in accuracy, so it may not make much difference.

Anyway, if they keep Eli and go defence and RG on the 1st 3 picks, I would guess they go 8-8 or 9-7 next season.

I really want Haskins or Murray, though.

Have to disagree with the Eli part, like Peyton before him, his arm is gone. He can make the odd deep throw but OBJ was exposing his weakness by getting open down field on a regular basis. Giving him away and bringing in Tate will give him more options in areas where he is comfortable which should help him, along with the improved OL.

Fully agree with the overall post though, that they could easily win a few more games next year (they weren't far winning more in 2018) and putting themselves in an even more difficult position to get a QB in 2019 draft. Additional problem will be if they do improve results with a shorter focused game and even more run heavy then there'll be calls that Eli should stick around longer rather than give away the picks required to move up to get one of the top QBs.

Paully D · 28-03-2019 8:38pm

https://twitter.com/ericgalko/status/1111331693779144705?s=21

Blut2 · 28-03-2019 11:31pm

Interesting. I wonder if/what they'll get from another team for Rosen.

eagle eye · 29-03-2019 12:06am

Have the Cards confirmed they are taking Murray?

Paully D · 29-03-2019 10:21am

eagle eye wrote: »

Have the Cards confirmed they are taking Murray?

Not publically anyway, and they’d be stupid to do so while in the process of (probably) trying to trade their current QB.

2019 Nfl Draft

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