Did you order cattle tags....

liam7831 · 22-12-2016 8:20am

Cormac should have included a free tagger with all first orders never mind the quantity. Lots of small farmers and people with tags left from last year. Think they missed a trick

orm0nd · 22-12-2016 10:39am

liam7831 wrote: »

Cormac should have included a free tagger with all first orders never mind the quantity. Lots of small farmers and people with tags left from last year. Think they missed a trick

same guy won't miss too many tricks I can assure you, I know 3 farmers ordering off him & it would be well over 1000 tags ,

they should easily gain well over 50 % of the market next year

Coolfresian · 22-12-2016 11:21am

kerry cow wrote: »

Order from cormac yesterday , feel great to support competition in the market .Farmers need competition and need to vote with their feet .Other companies did too much scare morgoring these last few months .THE SKY WAS GOING TO FALL !!!

Definitely, extra compitition can only be good for farmers. If the quality is not up to standard we now have a choice to change. How some people only wanted one tag supplier to be allowed to operate is beyond me.

whelan2 · 22-12-2016 11:43am

I thought that it was a year on year contract mullinahone where only difference now is there will be more than one supplier rather than a sole one? I do know another group who had tendered initially this year but were put off by how slow everything was moving and the uncertainty if the labs could use their system for bvd testing

jack o shea · 22-12-2016 11:58am

How do you order the cormac tags lads?don't see anything online.

Keepgrowing · 22-12-2016 11:58am

Tags arrived yesterday. 2 week turn around. Euro tag.

Coolfresian · 22-12-2016 12:57pm

jack o shea wrote: »

How do you order the cormac tags lads?don't see anything online.

I phoned them and they sent out a form in the post the next day. Not sure if it's in the journal? They told me their online site would be working in a few days.

liam7831 · 22-12-2016 2:12pm

It was in last weeks journal

cute geoge · 22-12-2016 2:30pm

Can you order replacement tags off previous years cattle from the new crowd

liam7831 · 22-12-2016 2:33pm

cute geoge wrote: »

Can you order replacement tags off previous years cattle from the new crowd

Don't see why not

Coolfresian · 22-12-2016 2:36pm

cute geoge wrote: »

Can you order replacement tags off previous years cattle from the new crowd

Yea u can, I'm ordering a few today. The only reason I changed was that I found the cattle were losing too many tags last year.

patsy_mccabe · 22-12-2016 6:15pm

Well do the Cormac tags look any stronger than the Mullinahone ones?

Fuxake · 22-12-2016 9:53pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Definitely, extra compitition can only be good for farmers. If the quality is not up to standard we now have a choice to change. How some people only wanted one tag supplier to be allowed to operate is beyond me.

Cannot understand how farmers journal and IFA did everything in their power to oppose competition and keep the monopoly going. ICSA were the only crowd to back competition from the get go.

Figerty · 22-12-2016 9:58pm

Fuxake wrote: »

Cannot understand how farmers journal and IFA did everything in their power to oppose competition and keep the monopoly going. ICSA were the only crowd to back competition from the get go.

Why the ICBF were allowed to have an illegal levy on tags is another one. Gone now, won't be paying it.

liam7831 · 22-12-2016 11:59pm

Figerty wrote: »

Why the ICBF were allowed to have an illegal levy on tags is another one. Gone now, won't be paying it.

Think their making it compulsory next year

Figerty · 23-12-2016 12:46am

liam7831 wrote: »

Think their making it compulsory next year

Can't do. It goes against the law.. check it out. Private company etc. can't put an undue burden on the customer or put their hand in your pocket without your permission. Probably illegal for the last number of years. I'd say we could all look for a refund if we wanted to. That would add up to a nice amount for large breeders.
IF they thought the could they be continuing to do so they wouldn't have pulled back. It was noted in the journal a few weeks ago that it was dropped. I'll lodge a complaint if they try to.

If they try to do so, at least the competition will have a competitive advantage in not charging.

Fuxake · 23-12-2016 8:50pm

Figerty wrote: »

Can't do. It goes against the law.. check it out. Private company etc. can't put an undue burden on the customer or put their hand in your pocket without your permission. Probably illegal for the last number of years. I'd say we could all look for a refund if we wanted to. That would add up to a nice amount for large breeders.
IF they thought the could they be continuing to do so they wouldn't have pulled back. It was noted in the journal a few weeks ago that it was dropped. I'll lodge a complaint if they try to.

If they try to do so, at least the competition will have a competitive advantage in not charging.

Fraid not so. If its made a statutory levy then anyone supplying tags would be obliged to charge it

Timmaay · 23-12-2016 9:01pm

In fairness to mullinahone, got all my tags in the post today.

Figerty · 23-12-2016 9:15pm

Fuxake wrote: »

Fraid not so. If its made a statutory levy then anyone supplying tags would be obliged to charge it

Statutory means on the statutes book of the government. That's not that simple. Unless ICBF becomes part of the Dept. of Ag. it aint to easy.

Keepgrowing · 23-12-2016 9:31pm

Fuxake wrote: »

Cannot understand how farmers journal and IFA did everything in their power to oppose competition and keep the monopoly going. ICSA were the only crowd to back competition from the get go.

I'm afraid you're incorrect there. IFA wanted 1 supplier but only after a tender competition to see who offered the best value. What we got was confusion and you'll see added cost for everyone.

Fuxake · 24-12-2016 10:55am

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I'm afraid you're incorrect there. IFA wanted 1 supplier but only after a tender competition to see who offered the best value. What we got was confusion and you'll see added cost for everyone.

if only it were so. Truth is that the so-called "tender" process had little to do with delivering best value to farmers. The winners of the tender were always Mullinahone amazingly who were then free to charge what they wanted and were allowed to charge farmers a second time when tags fell off. As many farmers found out to their cost at inspection time, the tags fell off quite a bit. I find it incomprehensible that intelligent people would buy the nonsense that monopoly was in farmers' interests.

A tender process that time and time again awards the same monopoly to one company is not about the customer's interest. I am correct in saying that this charade was propped up by IFA for God only knows what reason but you can check statements in the Dail by Coveney where he put it on the record that the monopoly was supported by the farm organisations (ie IFA).

It is also a fact that ICSA opposed this- check Agriland.

The real clue as to what is in the farmer's interest is that Mullinahone tag sets were priced at 2.90 including the ICBF levy and Cormac are charging 2.68. if you choose not to pay the ICBF levy you can save another 38c of any supplier. Again worth noting that the so called "tender" process that IFA backed kept farmers in the dark that the ICBF levy was voluntary. Meanwhile Cormac are so confident in the quality of their tag that they are offering free replacement for the duration of the contract.

I think a lot more questions need to be asked about what IFA motivations were on this...:eek:

kerry cow · 24-12-2016 11:46am

Is it not high time that cattle were chipped like horses and dog and have scanners to read the chip ..It not 1816 we are living in .

Keepgrowing · 24-12-2016 12:09pm

Fuxake wrote: »

if only it were so. Truth is that the so-called "tender" process had little to do with delivering best value to farmers. The winners of the tender were always Mullinahone amazingly who were then free to charge what they wanted and were allowed to charge farmers a second time when tags fell off. As many farmers found out to their cost at inspection time, the tags fell off quite a bit. I find it incomprehensible that intelligent people would buy the nonsense that monopoly was in farmers' interests.

A tender process that time and time again awards the same monopoly to one company is not about the customer's interest. I am correct in saying that this charade was propped up by IFA for God only knows what reason but you can check statements in the Dail by Coveney where he put it on the record that the monopoly was supported by the farm organisations (ie IFA).

It is also a fact that ICSA opposed this- check Agriland.

The real clue as to what is in the farmer's interest is that Mullinahone tag sets were priced at 2.90 including the ICBF levy and Cormac are charging 2.68. if you choose not to pay the ICBF levy you can save another 38c of any supplier. Again worth noting that the so called "tender" process that IFA backed kept farmers in the dark that the ICBF levy was voluntary. Meanwhile Cormac are so confident in the quality of their tag that they are offering free replacement for the duration of the contract.

I think a lot more questions need to be asked about what IFA motivations were on this...:eek:

For Gods sake, can you look at the IFA position on it before venting.

They wanted open tender process with the winner getting 100% of the tag business. That's the fact. We now have 2/3 and the labs are now talking of rising prices for testing. How do you think the ifa influenced this. Answer with facts.

jaymla627 · 24-12-2016 12:52pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

For Gods sake, can you look at the IFA position on it before venting.

They wanted open tender process with the winner getting 100% of the tag business. That's the fact. We now have 2/3 and the labs are now talking of rising prices for testing. How do you think the ifa influenced this. Answer with facts.

Whatever about the tag business, this bvd scheme is turning into a piss-take, why herds that have participated in the scheme for 3 years and have had no pi's in this period still have to submit samples is a joke...
It's not been put out in the wide spread domain but the bvd fiasco is simply to keep labs open and running on the back of brucellosis testing been dis-continued, the fact they have only brought in herds been restricted recently if pi's are retained is laughable if it had been brought in the first year it would of solved all the messing a small % of lads are at with retaining pi animals

Keepgrowing · 24-12-2016 8:17pm

There's no other organisation collating the info on our national herd. We are very lucky to have such an organisation.

If you're buying, selling, culling etc all the relevant information one needs is there. You have breed societies jumping up and down because the info collected is allowing us as farmers see the true value of our own stock. The breeders are now in some cases being exposed as the emporers with no clothes.

It's a national jewel and the envy of many.

As an aside they are the only group who've come out and told LIC to take a run and jump with their contract proposal, and rightly so.

It would be a great pity to compromise their finances and the work they do be withholding the levy.

orm0nd · 30-12-2016 11:36am

https://vimeo.com/192958188

J.O. Farmer · 30-12-2016 1:35pm

orm0nd wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/192958188

Those look good and well thought out. I like the one strip one calf idea as it should be easy to keep track of the tags compared to mullinahone where the tags fall out of the white holder easily and if you have a few calves to do you need to be sure you've the complete right set.

The tissue sampling looks good too. Anybody else find they need to use something to push the holder of mullinahone tissue sample closer to the pin to get the it to click together properly.

Keepgrowing · 30-12-2016 3:38pm

orm0nd wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/192958188

Love the strips.

orm0nd · 30-12-2016 3:43pm

cormac now have the back log of orders cleared, & have about 7 to 10 day turn around.

Figerty · 30-12-2016 3:44pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

There's no other organisation collating the info on our national herd. We are very lucky to have such an organisation.

If you're buying, selling, culling etc all the relevant information one needs is there. You have breed societies jumping up and down because the info collected is allowing us as farmers see the true value of our own stock. The breeders are now in some cases being exposed as the emporers with no clothes.

It's a national jewel and the envy of many.

As an aside they are the only group who've come out and told LIC to take a run and jump with their contract proposal, and rightly so.

It would be a great pity to compromise their finances and the work they do be withholding the levy.

You seem to assume that the data is correct and reliable. The presentations that were given were very vague on this. It's an ongoing project and will probably improve over time.
However, it is still a private(ish) organisation that has a cosy relationship with the IFA that was levying, through a private provider of tags on the purchasers without choice. They have obviously been pulled on in as the operation has changed. Well intentioned or not, they can't do that.
Their work is on the back of a levy that shouldn't be allowed.. It's not far of the scams the banks were selling.

Figerty · 30-12-2016 3:45pm

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Those look good and well thought out. I like the one strip one calf idea as it should be easy to keep track of the tags compared to mullinahone where the tags fall out of the white holder easily and if you have a few calves to do you need to be sure you've the complete right set.

The tissue sampling looks good too. Anybody else find they need to use something to push the holder of mullinahone tissue sample closer to the pin to get the it to click together properly.

Will they stay on the ears in the long run better than Mullinahone tags is the question. I have cows that keep loosing tags, usually from putting their heads out through a gate for silage.

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 4:05pm

Figerty wrote: »

You seem to assume that the data is correct and reliable. The presentations that were given were very vague on this. It's an ongoing project and will probably improve over time.
However, it is still a private(ish) organisation that has a cosy relationship with the IFA that was levying, through a private provider of tags on the purchasers without choice. They have obviously been pulled on in as the operation has changed. Well intentioned or not, they can't do that.
Their work is on the back of a levy that shouldn't be allowed.. It's not far of the scams the banks were selling.

There's an article in this weeks journal that ICBF will be in difficulty with all the tag levies they are losing, apparently dept of ag might step in with funding. We as farmers had our incomes decimated last year and we got on with it and are still here. Time to stop moaning and work with what they have.

tanko · 30-12-2016 4:50pm

Figerty wrote: »

Will they stay on the ears in the long run better than Mullinahone tags is the question. I have cows that keep loosing tags, usually from putting their heads out through a gate for silage.

There's only one way to find out, it's doubtful if anyone could make tags of lower quality than the rubbish tags Mullinahone have been churning out for the last twenty years.

Keepgrowing · 30-12-2016 5:07pm

Figerty wrote: »

You seem to assume that the data is correct and reliable. The presentations that were given were very vague on this. It's an ongoing project and will probably improve over time.
However, it is still a private(ish) organisation that has a cosy relationship with the IFA that was levying, through a private provider of tags on the purchasers without choice. They have obviously been pulled on in as the operation has changed. Well intentioned or not, they can't do that.
Their work is on the back of a levy that shouldn't be allowed.. It's not far of the scams the banks were selling.

All I can tell you is the info from my herd is correct. You are correct that the info gathered is only as good as that supplied.

What presentations and to whom are you referring.

There's an IFA bashing thread elsewhere, perhaps that would serve your need to vent better. You are indulging in FINDO type commentary by trying to link the two.

You started about the IFA wanting no competition for tags and failed to prove that, now your trying to use the "levy" to sully the ICBF.

Keepgrowing · 30-12-2016 5:10pm

whelan2 wrote: »

There's an article in this weeks journal that ICBF will be in difficulty with all the tag levies they are losing, apparently dept of ag might step in with funding. We as farmers had our incomes decimated last year and we got on with it and are still here. Time to stop moaning and work with what they have.[/quote

Populous clap trap. Nothing like playing the poor mouth to rouse the rabble.

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 5:57pm

Why put it in the journal. Most people are paying the levy so its scaremongering to get everyone to pay it. Why cant they come out with exact figures as to what %have paid it or not.

Keepgrowing · 30-12-2016 6:11pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Why put it in the journal. Most people are paying the levy so its scaremongering to get everyone to pay it. Why cant they come out with exact figures as to what %have paid it or not.

I've no idea and can't understand why you'd choose not to pay. What criteria will you use choosing your AI Bulls?

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 6:18pm

I only bought my spring calving tags . My icbf levy would have come to just over €40 . I didnt pay it on principle. My 40 euro wont make.or break them. They still will have the 50c on each ai straw and my 87c per cow milk recorded. Will pay it when I order next batch which will hopefully be from cormac tags. The way the levy was taken was wrong. I am not faulting any of icbf's work. I just think the way the levy was taken was wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion not everyone has to agree with it. There are others that the tag levy is the only funding which they give icbf.

Coolfresian · 30-12-2016 6:25pm

whelan2 wrote: »

I only bought my spring calving tags . My icbf levy would have come to just over €40 . I didnt pay it on principle. My 40 euro wont make.or break them. They still will have the 50c on each ai straw and my 87c per cow milk recorded. Will pay it when I order next batch which will hopefully be from cormac tags. The way the levy was taken was wrong. I am not faulting any of icbf's work. I just think the way the levy was taken was wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion not everyone has to agree with it. There are others that the tag levy is the only funding which they give icbf.

Which ai straws is it on? I enquired and was told its not on any :-/ I did not pay and will make no apologies for not paying the icbf levy. It's every farmers choice what to do with their own hard earned money.

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 6:31pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Which ai straws is it on? I enquired and was told its not on any :-/ I did not pay and will make no apologies for not paying the icbf levy. It's every farmers choice what to do with their own hard earned money.

I was told by ai manand ceo of our ai company it was all straws. Now maybe that's all straws going through the handheld as all mine are. But there definitely is 50c on all my straws

Coolfresian · 30-12-2016 6:35pm

whelan2 wrote: »

I was told by ai manand chairman of our ai company it was all straws. Now maybe that's all straws going through the handheld as all mine are. But there definitely is 50c on all my straws

Maybe it's only a particular ai company? Mine go thru the handheld too. The company told me they were not aware of any levies on the straws :-/ my point is that everything should be transparent were levies are concerned. If they are being taken, declare it clearly and give us the choice and make each farmer aware of what the levies are on. Is that too much to ask I wonder and if so why?

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 6:39pm

Pg and dovea. My sources would be very reliable.

Coolfresian · 30-12-2016 6:52pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Pg and dovea. My sources would be very reliable.

Thanks, the question is if it's voluntary and the farmers chooses to have it stopped can they. It's a topic il be raising at my next branch ifa meeting.

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 7:09pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Thanks, the question is if it's voluntary and the farmers chooses to have it stopped can they. It's a topic il be raising at my next branch ifa meeting.

I dont mind paying towards somethingif I know I am paying it iykwim. The word as you said is transparency, which there doesnt seem to be.

Figerty · 30-12-2016 8:56pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

All I can tell you is the info from my herd is correct. You are correct that the info gathered is only as good as that supplied.

What presentations and to whom are you referring.

There's an IFA bashing thread elsewhere, perhaps that would serve your need to vent better. You are indulging in FINDO type commentary by trying to link the two.

You started about the IFA wanting no competition for tags and failed to prove that, now your trying to use the "levy" to sully the ICBF.

I'll keep it civil.. the IFA has done enough damage to itself with hidden levys. bloated salaries, and vested interests.. They don't need a thread here to blacken them.

The presentations given at the start of the current programmes online and at marts. They were even presented with a 2 start cow and a 5 star cow by the mart as a counter point and couldn't answer why it should have been the reverse. It wasn't an anomaly, it was based on data gathered. Star ratings are on the move already.

Have a read of the Journal mourning the loss of the levy. The ICBF is sullied. it has been taking money that it shouldn't get.

The two are linked.. take a look at the ICBF board and the IFA..Who takes the levy for the tags.. who has a newspaper bemoaning the loss of the levy..

Keepgrowing · 30-12-2016 9:29pm

Figerty wrote: »

I'll keep it civil.. the IFA has done enough damage to itself with hidden levys. bloated salaries, and vested interests.. They don't need a thread here to blacken them.

The presentations given at the start of the current programmes online and at marts. They were even presented with a 2 start cow and a 5 star cow by the mart as a counter point and couldn't answer why it should have been the reverse. It wasn't an anomaly, it was based on data gathered. Star ratings are on the move already.

Have a read of the Journal mourning the loss of the levy. The ICBF is sullied. it has been taking money that it shouldn't get.

The two are linked.. take a look at the ICBF board and the IFA..Who takes the levy for the tags.. who has a newspaper bemoaning the loss of the levy..

Can we just discuss ICBF and leave the IFA out of this. We're all well aware of the ground the IFA have lost and frankly it's an entirely different matter.

mahoney_j · 30-12-2016 9:47pm

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I've no idea and can't understand why you'd choose not to pay. What criteria will you use choosing your AI Bulls?

What criteria are we all using ???who collects all the data and produces it to us in a format we can easily use .we really don't know how lucky we are to have the icbf

whelan2 · 30-12-2016 9:51pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

What criteria are we all using ???who collects all the data and produces it to us in a format we can easily use .we really don't know how lucky we are to have the icbf

This has been done to death no one is disputing the work icbf do, we are questioning the levies that are in place for icbf. There is no clarity on them, the tag levy was put in place as a temporary measure over 20 years ago and was just let run on. I have no problem funding them if I know I am funding them.

mahoney_j · 30-12-2016 9:53pm

Coolfresian wrote: »

Which ai straws is it on? I enquired and was told its not on any :-/ I did not pay and will make no apologies for not paying the icbf levy. It's every farmers choice what to do with their own hard earned money.

Do u use herdplus ,if your dairying I bet u do .also all the info in ai catalogues of milk recording ,genomics etc etc the icbf are involved with collecting and collaborating that data for us end users

GrasstoMilk · 30-12-2016 10:05pm

Tags arrived today from Euro tags. Ordered on the 12th
Very annoyed over tag losses though. Replaced 15 tags this winter which were lost in last 12 months and after loosing a futher 3 tags since I replaced what was lost.

Did you order cattle tags....

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