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18-05-2019, 18:30   #1
Vexorg
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Parents who raise children as vegans should be prosecuted, say Belgian doctors

The telegraph is running this story. Apparently there have been a number of deaths in schools, hospitals and nurseries.

According to the article

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The vegan diet could only be made safe for growing children if complemented with medical supervision, regular blood tests and vitamin supplements, which most parents were not qualified to provide.
Quote:
"This restrictive regime requires ongoing monitoring of children to avoid deficiencies and often irreversible growth delays," the legal opinion said, "It is unsuitable for unborn children, children, teenagers and pregnant and lactating women."
I am surprised that a body like The Royal Academy of Medicine of Belgium would publish such an opinion when like any diet it requires balance depending on what stage in the life cycle a child is. Granted it may be more difficult to find the balance with a vegan diet as we have plenty information and experience of meat and dairy based diets and a less for plant based diets.

Clearly the parents mentioned in the article who feed only plant based milk to their baby did not understand the nutritional requirements of their child. Together with what ever other cases have occurred caused Belgium child protective services to seek a legal opinion from the Royal academy of Medicine.

In between the sensationalist reporting and hyperbole, I am reading babies, children and adolescent require specific nutrients at different stages of their development and without them their development will be affected and in very extreme cases cause death, so the Belgium medical academy based on their experience recommend medical supervision for children who are on a vegan diet. However without knowing the number of deaths and complications it is not possible to say if this is an over-reaction of not.

However what annoys me most is the reaction of Dawn Carr, of PETA,(their director of vegan corporate projects) who said, "What a load of ignorant codswallop!" She is just brushing aside the concerns of these people. she goes on to say.

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NHS nutritionists confirm that while a meat- and dairy-based diet is what strikes people down in adulthood – as it can lead to hardened arteries that cause stroke, brain aneurysms, and heart attacks
Firstly unless these belgium children died from some form of arterial damage why does she bring it up. Not only that, it is incorrect to say meat and dairy cause these conditions when there are so many other factors that are contributory. But the worst sin for me is the inference that vegans so not suffer from the above just because they eliminate meat and dairy from their diets. Why the dishonesty?

If meat and dairy is what strikes people down in adulthood why do the NHS recommend its daily consumption in the recommended food groups and diets. Maybe its because there is more to a healthy heart and blood vessels that just food. Vegans with Diabetes, vegans who are overweight, vegans who smoke, vegans who have high blood pressure, vegens who do not exercise are all at risk of being struck down in adulthood with "hardened arteries that cause stroke, brain aneurysms, and heart attacks"

I cannot find any NHS nutritionist confirm that it is meat and dairy are that strike people down in adulthood.


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a well-planned vegan diet is perfect for babies and children.

"Kids, including my own, thrive on a balanced vegan diet, but as with any dietary regime, it's the parent's responsibility to ensure their child is getting all the necessary nutrients. And yes, that's easier to achieve on a vibrant vegan diet rich in whole grains, vegetables, and pulses."

Even the NHS who include vegetarian and vegan advice advise in the "vegetarian and vegan babies and children" is
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But they might need specific supplements (such as vitamin B12) in addition to the usual vitamin supplements recommended for all babies. Talk to a health professional for advice.
Is it not just as easy to provide all necessary nutrients for children on vegetarian and omnivorous diets, why be dishonest and say its easier on a vegan diet?

This misinformation and dishonesty has to stop, a balanced plant based diet is just as good as any other diet, it does not need lies to make it seem better.
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19-05-2019, 15:49   #2
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This misinformation and dishonesty has to stop, a balanced plant based diet is just as good as any other diet, it does not need lies to make it seem better.

I think you just realised what its like to be a farmer and having lies spread about the internet about your farming practice..


Here's an idea, maybe if people just kept to themselves about their preferences and opinions on diet and lifestyle rather than attacking everyone else and wanting to take away their opinion and personal choice, that sure sounds better to me.
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20-05-2019, 20:03   #3
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Here's an idea, maybe if people just kept to themselves about their preferences and opinions on diet and lifestyle rather than attacking everyone else and wanting to take away their opinion and personal choice, that sure sounds better to me.
Brilliant idea - does this mean you'll stop ranting on the V & V forum now
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20-05-2019, 20:07   #4
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I've no problem with people being vegans, once
1. They keep their veganism to themselves
2. They don't do that awful thing called air travel (1 flight to New York = 5 years of meat eating).
3. They keep buy stuff imported from China, bought on Amazon, flown to Ireland, etc, etc.
4. They don't take any supplements, etc which are factory made make up for the undernourishment of not eating meat.

Bottom line - I've never met a vegan who wasn't a complete pain in the ****

Last edited by PhilOssophy; 20-05-2019 at 20:12.
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20-05-2019, 20:10   #5
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This is my opinion, vegans and vegetarias that I know are slightly aggressive under the cloak of being peacefull animal lovers.

Usually they're the sensitive covert narcissist, unable to mind their own business and pushing their agenda on meat eaters.

Social justice warriors come to mind too.

Any parents who try to turn their kids into vegans through fear and manipulation are on the same wavelength as parents pushing their religious agenda's on their kids.

Why are most vegans yellow looking?
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20-05-2019, 20:27   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexorg View Post

Apparently there have been a number of deaths in schools, hospitals and nurseries.

In between the sensationalist reporting and hyperbole, I am reading babies, children and adolescent require specific nutrients at different stages of their development and without them their development will be affected and in very extreme cases cause death, so the Belgium medical academy based on their experience recommend medical supervision for children who are on a vegan diet. However without knowing the number of deaths and complications it is not possible to say if this is an over-reaction of not.
Even one death of a child who starved to death in a firstworld country should be unacceptable. The usual suggestion for childern at risk of neglect or abuse ranges from some form of supervision up to removal of the child at birth.

Clearly if the medical profession is making a recomendation of medical supervision based on their collective experience of babies starving to death because parents don't know how to feed the child that's not an over-reaction.
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21-05-2019, 15:51   #7
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Brilliant idea - does this mean you'll stop ranting on the V & V forum now
I don’t rant, I educate !!

And I didn’t see any posts saying there was a prerequisite to be VorV to comment ?

TBH my presence is a balance to the misinformation against farming. I’ve been involved in farming all my life both on our own farm and working on others, my day job I work supporting small low income farmers financially and socially.

Same as VorV folk are welcome in the farming section where they regularly post.
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21-05-2019, 17:01   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Brian View Post
I think you just realised what its like to be a farmer and having lies spread about the internet about your farming practice..


Here's an idea, maybe if people just kept to themselves about their preferences and opinions on diet and lifestyle rather than attacking everyone else and wanting to take away their opinion and personal choice, that sure sounds better to me.
I don’t get the reason for having to lie especially when it involves someone’s livelihood, meat is too cheap, when it is priced correctly, I would expect consumption to decrease and herd owners income to increase at least that’s how I hope it happens.

Some people see their belief system as morally superior to others, it’s a slippery slope imo.
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21-05-2019, 17:02   #9
Hal3000
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Yet parents who raise absolute thugs are grand....
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21-05-2019, 17:14   #10
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Brilliant idea - does this mean you'll stop ranting on the V & V forum now
Calling someone opinion a rant is poor form at best and baiting at worst, Vegans need livestock farmers to be part of the discussion, both sides need to understand the other before any real change can happen. Flippant remarks and trying to push people out of the discussion will not work.
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21-05-2019, 17:27   #11
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Bottom line - I've never met a vegan who wasn't a complete pain in the ****
Not all vegans announce the vegan-ness to the world, is it possible you have met a vegan and did not know they were a vegan, there is a vocal minority in my experience who like to crusade on behalf of all vegans and will happily spread information based on the latest book, movie or YouTube activist they have consumed. Few if any check the information they are spreading.
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21-05-2019, 17:36   #12
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Originally Posted by henryporter
Brilliant idea - does this mean you'll stop ranting on the V & V forum now

You're not the first to want an echo chamber, not healthy though.
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21-05-2019, 17:39   #13
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Originally Posted by Glass fused light View Post
Even one death of a child who starved to death in a firstworld country should be unacceptable. The usual suggestion for childern at risk of neglect or abuse ranges from some form of supervision up to removal of the child at birth.

Clearly if the medical profession is making a recomendation of medical supervision based on their collective experience of babies starving to death because parents don't know how to feed the child that's not an over-reaction.
I agree with most of what you have said and it was poor phrased. When I said over reacting, it was from the point of view that the logic should apply to any diet or belief system forced on children by their parents, that causes death, injury etc. in this case they singled out vegans.
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21-05-2019, 17:44   #14
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Yet parents who raise absolute thugs are grand....

Think you posted on the wrong thread?
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21-05-2019, 19:09   #15
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Originally Posted by Vexorg View Post
I agree with most of what you have said and it was poor phrased. When I said over reacting, it was from the point of view that the logic should apply to any diet or belief system forced on children by their parents, that causes death, injury etc. in this case they singled out vegans.
I am not sure what your point is.
The parents on the story owned a health food store and apparently did not know enough about nutrition to feed their baby. Their choice of diet choice killed the child slowly over the seven months of its short life. They did not seek medical assistance even though their child was almost half the weight that is should have been.

120,000 childern were born in 2017 in Belgium, so 3,600 of these children are on a vegan diet (3%).

Can anyone argue that 1 death per 3,600 babies is an acceptable mortality rate.
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