how many cigs do customs let you bring through in EU??

fAzI wrote: »

She was come in from Poland

I know a few Polish lads who often bring a box or two extra when they're coming back from visiting people back home, and lately the customs people are checking a lot of the Polish to see what cigarettes they are bringing to Ireland, to put a halt to this carry on

BeerNut wrote: »

No it isn't. If you've more than 800 they can just take them with no burden on them whatsoever. Revenue have powers that newer organisations -- such as the police -- can only dream of.

Do you know anyone who's actually done this? A solicitor will end up costing you more than a run to Poland to buy more fags.

With the explicit exception of excisable goods such as cigarettes which have specific conditions attaching to them. And there's a Revenue guideline that says once you've over 800 cigarettes it's up to you to explain how they're not for re-selling, and up to Revenue to decide whether or not to believe you.

I'm well aware of Revenue's powers - I've driven trucks in over 30 countries and given customs of various countries thousands of euro, most of which was returned with interest and costs when legally contested (in UK, France, Ireland).Their powers are immense.

However, I'm not talking about smuggling for profit -- rather, about bringing in a personal allowance , that is above the Revenue guidelines, from an EU country to Ireland. Those Revenue guidelines are simply that - guidelines - and they have no legal force whatsoever. They certainly cannot override EU law on the free movement of goods and citizens.
True, over 800 cigs or similar can be confiscated at an officer's discretion, if he/she suspects that they are not for personal use. However this is an interim measure, the outcome of which depends on your reaction.
Most people roll over - and Revenue knows and depends on this. But if taken a step further, then Revenue has a burden of proof to prove that the goods are NOT for personal use. And this they cannot do - if the goods are demonstrably for one's own use.
I wouldn't recommend a trip solely to buy fags - but if one is travelling then it makes sense to travel smart,legally, and make the journey pay for itself.

BeerNut wrote: »

No argument there. Going back to my earlier post, I said 800 is the amount that can be taken in safely. Any more and you're inviting the possibility of hassle from customs. Whether the extra ciggies are worth that risk is of course up to the individual punter.

Going back to my earlier question: do you know anyone who's ever fought a my-word-against-customs's case to recover confiscated goods, and if so, how did it go? Of course Revenue guidelines can't override the law, but the law is how a judge interprets it, and I'd be very interested to know how the jurisprudence lies here. Have you any real-life examples from Ireland?

Rather than my slant on it here is the legal position from the Chairperson of the Revenue ,Josephine Feehily, stated before the Dail Commitee on Public Accounts 11/3/2010......
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/ACC/2010/03/11/printall.asp
She said

---

"There are three main ways in which untaxed tobacco gets into the country. The first is often missed in the discussion. In the context of our membership of the European Union, people can bring duty paid tobacco from other member states for their personal use. While we have an indicative guideline of 800 cigarettes, it is only indicative and the law states a person can bring in tobacco for personal use. There is significant case law in the European and domestic courts that suggests that the burden of proof for us to establish cigarettes are not for personal use is very high. People can legally bring many thousands of cigarettes into the country for their own use."
She goes on to talk about the 2 main illegal sources of ciggys coming into Ireland, but , significantly, concludes by saying.....
"Those are the three main sources of untaxed cigarettes. The second two sources are illegal while the first is not, and that is an important point."
So, that is the Chairperson of the Revenue Commisioners stating very clearly that it is NOT illegal to bring in thousands of cigarettes (or tobacco,or drink) -- provided that the relevant taxes have been paid in another member state,( irrespective of whether those taxes are higher or lower than Ireland's,) and that the goods are for personal use.
My view is that an Irish judge cannot 'interpret' the law to suit the purpose of tax gathering. European law takes precedence - and there is 'significant case law' to uphold this. It doesn't matter what EU country that 'significant case law' origininally related to : Irish courts,politicians, and Revenue are bound by it, and acknowledge it.

" that's a no then".?.. I presume you mean, do I know of specific cases in Ireland?
We had a truck impounded entering Dublin - that was subsequently released without penalty. In the cab were 2 cases of tobacco. The driver insisted they were for personal use, as he was soon to go off the road and wanted to stock up beforehand. The boxes were released to him.
In Dover I made representations through a solicitor and had 2 cases released back to me also.
At all ports I have had customs look at a case of tobacco in , unhidden , either in the boot or the cab, and been waved on - sometimes after a couple of questions. It's no big deal.
No laws were broken, receipts were shown - I did the same for my anniversary party-- I had a copy of the hotel booking and a covring letter from the hotel showing that I would supply the wine and they the corkage. No problem. Revenue isn't there to hassle people - simply to collect due taxes. If no taxes are due then it's not their problem.
Revenue is only doing its job; and in my experience they are very evenhanded.They aren't going to initiate a prosecution unless they are fairly certain a law has been broken.
The 'guidelines' are simply a scare tactic, a smokescreen patch on a souce of leaking revenue.
To reverse the question: do you know of a genuine traveller who applied , through the correct channels,for the return of confiscated cigs over the 800 guideline who was refused the return of goods?
I'm over 40 years dealing with customs, and if the Chairperson says that the burden of proof is high - and on their side - then that is a green lane in anyone's language. The goods don't have to be hidden -- if anyone is still uncertain, then print out a copy of her statement to the Public Accounts Commitee, no Revenue official is going to bet against their boss on a loser.

Hill Billy wrote: »

Super. Now that we know that - let's move on.

As previously stated on this thread - the guidelines are there to be read on the Revenue website & you can then decide for yourselves how much you purchase.

HB

Link to the Revenue website is included in the Charter thread.

No.

HB

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why not?
The statement to DPAC seems as legitimate a piece of information as the revenue website, and comes from the same source, i.e. the revenue.
In addition it has the advantage of having been made under Dail commitee rules, so lying wasn't an option.

Should be both links or neither in the Charter in my humble.

I'm not a Mod here but i suspect that Boards want to distance themselves from anything that appears to encourage or condone the transportation of cigarettes across state borders. It's a grey area and unless Revenue come out with a definitive statement,"You can carry as much as you like" or "citizens will not be stopped with anything up to a limit of xxxx cigarettes" then it's best to steer clear of 'advice'.

Last thing Boards wants is "ZOMG!!! The Customs guy wouldn't believe me when i said Boards.ie said it was ok to bring in loads of fags" threads and people referencing Boards as some sort of valid reference point for law.

The Charter is effectively the rules and terms of use of the forum,adding the above to it would effectively be giving it a certain form of legitimacy.

That's my take on it anyways.:)

As above. The link to the revenue site is how things currently stand in law. Josephine Feehily comments may be of use to your barristers arguments in court but the forum and Board.ie can't and won't interperet the law as it stands. More then happy to discuss it but can't endorse her statment as the right for everyone to bring in 500,000* B&H - for personal use.


*Exageration of a point cos it sounds more dramatic then 5000

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Hey all, I'm off to Portugal in the morning and am looking to brings back some cigs. Whats the maximum amount I can bring back?

You can bring back as many as you like as Portugal is within the EU.
However you need to be able to convince Customs that they are ALL for personal consumption

jimdublin15 wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_to_ireland/customs_regulations_for_travellers.html

Alcohol and tobacco allowances for travellers to Ireland from EU

Goods


Maximum quantity allowed

Cigarettes 800
Cigarillos 400
Cigars 200
Smoking tobacco 1 kg

You are not entitled to alcohol or tobacco allowances if you are aged under 17 years.

You should keep any receipts as proof that you have paid duty and VAT.

Why quote so selectively, the most important aspect as pointed out by prior posters is
You can bring as much as you want so long as it's for non commercial use - this has been dealt with by the ECJ in a number of cases and they have had to accept that goods brought to give as presents etc, to pay babysitters (!?!) etc are covered by the exemption. I cannot remember the outcome of the one involving someone who was going on a trip and took cash from friends to cover their desires but I believe that was also acceptable provided that there was no profit element.