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Lions Tour

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    #92
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I’m probably wrong about this, but I doubt the French have much interest in playing with British players.


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    #93
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I apologise for going slightly off topic. The lions seams to be mainly about money these days, So could we see in the future it morph in to the European lions the same way the ryder Cup with players from other European nations. I would imagine in it would be a big money spiner
    No. It wont happen. Cant see french wanting to have it. Already is enough issues getting french based players released for the early parts of tour considering conclusion of top14 is ongoing when lions tour has started adding in french players on top isnt going to happen. It also reduces even more who the other sides play when the Lions is on. Its then just Italy and the 3 other rugby championship sides of the top tier.


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    #94
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    No, the sales have been very strong according to the Lions.

    The two most obvious choices are to play it somewhere else or to move it to 2022.

    The former is probably easier given the calendar issues and more desirable given the urgent need for cash.

    Playing it somewhere else would be a stupid decision. It removes the historical touring aspect that has been used to sell it for years, and it removes the desire of the home fans to attend.

    If the lions organisers can’t be convinced that they won’t have to refund tickets and that fans can travel then they will postpone for a year. The fear of announcing no fans can attend games will mean their touring fans looking for refunds / cancellations and big losses in revenue, because if you can’t go to games then you cant have any social side to the tour.

    Presumably the logistics involved, charters, hotels, transport etc etc are only willing to keep unguranteed booking on the books for so long before money has to be paid over, that’s the risk and 6 months or so could be the cutoff for such payments.

    With governments obviously not willing to say now where things will be in the summer the Lions organisers are taking one hell of a risk by deciding to continue.

    I think a delay of 12 months is inevitable.


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    #95
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I apologise for going slightly off topic. The lions seams to be mainly about money these days, So could we see in the future it morph in to the European lions the same way the ryder Cup with players from other European nations. I would imagine in it would be a big money spiner



    The lions has been about money for a long long long time now.


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    #96
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    We’re in uncharted territory though.

    The game is in big trouble financially.

    Given the circumstances, I think that fans need to be open-minded.

    And I’m speaking as someone who’s booked and paid to go.


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    #97
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    We’re in uncharted territory though.

    The game is in big trouble financially.

    Given the circumstances, I think that fans need to be open-minded.

    And I’m speaking as someone who’s booked and paid to go.

    Fans being open minded? Since when did fans, especially travelling ones ever have a say. It will be the authorities who decide.

    Not sure how long you've been travelling abroad to games but travelling supporters don't have any say in how things work.

    You won't be travelling and hopefully whoever you booked with offered a good 'covid guarantee' so you are not financially impacted.


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    #98
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A year's delay is the cleanest outcome. I'm not sure playing this year without fans would be good enough financially. Plus five weeks on the other side of the world with nothing to do during the week except train would be a pretty horrific experience for the Lions players. You'd see loads of players pull out of going IMO.


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    #99
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Lions tour to South Africa is nearly top of my bucket list but if you were to give me free travel and tickets for next year, no thanks I'll pass, for 2022, if Mrs. Clareman was to allow it I'd gladly playing 10 grand for a few games.


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    #100
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    Fans being open minded? Since when did fans, especially travelling ones ever have a say. It will be the authorities who decide.

    Not sure how long you've been travelling abroad to games but travelling supporters don't have any say in how things work.

    You won't be travelling and hopefully whoever you booked with offered a good 'covid guarantee' so you are not financially impacted.

    This will be my 5th Lions Tour and I’ve been at 7 World Cups, so I’d consider myself pretty experienced. Seven, Jesus, I had to add them up!

    I book it all myself. The hotels are fully cancellable. The tickets are from the South African Union via a pal of mine in South Africa so refundable if it doesn’t go ahead. And the flight can be rebooked so I’ll just use it to go somewhere else.


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    #101
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Clareman wrote: »
    Lions tour to South Africa is nearly top of my bucket list but if you were to give me free travel and tickets for next year, no thanks I'll pass, for 2022, if Mrs. Clareman was to allow it I'd gladly playing 10 grand for a few games.

    Did it in 2009, (have done Aus and NZ too), was fun but the whole security thing took the shine off it, but that's for another thread.

    I did 2009 DIY and you can do it a LOT cheaper than the tour operator even with match tickets, you just need to be organised/creative.


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    #102
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    South Africa is superb, I think that the security side of things is exaggerated a little. Yes, parts of it are very very dodgy, but the same can be said for a lot of places. And Cape Town is a lot safer than, say, Jo’burg or even Durban these days. Durban used to be great craic.

    It’s so much better and cheaper to do these trips yourself. My trip cost 40% of the similar “official” itinerary and everything is better quality (i.e. flight, accommodation, and tickets).


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    #103
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    South Africa is superb, I think that the security side of things is exaggerated a little. Yes, parts of it are very very dodgy, but the same can be said for a lot of places. And Cape Town is a lot safer than, say, Jo’burg or even Durban these days. Durban used to be great craic.

    It’s so much better and cheaper to do these trips yourself.

    Didn't like the fact that you can't or shouldn't walk around freely after dark. As for J'Burg the place is a effin kip.

    Loved Cape Town and felt normal there.

    Agreed on DIY vs tours.


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    #104
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    Didn't like the fact that you can't or shouldn't walk around freely after dark. As for J'Burg the place is a effin kip.

    Loved Cape Town and felt normal there.

    Agreed on DIY vs tours.

    It is strange relative to, say, Dublin or the UK, but there is so much that’s good about the place. The food, the scenery, the wine, the price of everything, the rugby itself.

    It’s also the most straightforward of the three; shorter journey, no time difference, etc.

    I like different things about each of the three tours but on balance my favourite is New Zealand. I was blown away by the place in 2017 and by the rugby.


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    #105
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    This will be my 5th Lions Tour and I’ve been at 7 World Cups, so I’d consider myself pretty experienced. Seven, Jesus, I had to add them up!

    I book it all myself. The hotels are fully cancellable. The tickets are from the South African Union via a pal of mine in South Africa so refundable if it doesn’t go ahead. And the flight can be rebooked so I’ll just use it to go somewhere else.

    OK I both hate and admire you


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    #106
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A Pro16 tour next season is a possibility as well. Accomodation/flight options would be better.


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    #107
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    Did it in 2009, (have done Aus and NZ too), was fun but the whole security thing took the shine off it, but that's for another thread.

    I did 2009 DIY and you can do it a LOT cheaper than the tour operator even with match tickets, you just need to be organised/creative.

    I can never deal with the package deal, I can't cope with "organized fun", even in college I couldn't stand rag week. My ideal of a Lions trip (outside of flights) would be to buy a car on arrival and sell it on departure while getting a room wherever nearby a match.


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    #108
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    A Pro16 tour next season is a possibility as well. Accomodation/flight options would be better.

    The mystic of the Lions means that it has to be a Lions tour


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    #109
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Clareman wrote: »
    OK I both hate and admire you

    Lol.

    There's no way I would have been able to do as any trips via a tour co that I did DIY. With kids its now limited to just Ireland and Leinster.

    Like you say, organised fun icluding dinner with some hasbeen commentator- cringe and no thanks.


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    #110
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    Lol.

    There's no way I would have been able to do as any trips via a tour co that I did DIY. With kids its now limited to just Ireland and Leinster.

    Like you say, organised fun icluding dinner with some hasbeen commentator- cringe and no thanks.

    Getting to watch a match on telly is a stretch for me at this stage but Mrs. Clareman knows this is a bucket list thing for me so I'd be just about able to swing it, just about, maybe, if we won the lotto


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    #111
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    It’s more the cost.

    Yes the “organised fun” must be tiresome, but they really stiff you with the quality of the hotels (and the tickets).

    Packages will often be 2.5 times more expensive than doing it yourself and the underlying products won’t even be as good.


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    #112
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    It’s more the cost.

    Yes the “organised fun” must be tiresome, but they really stiff you with the quality of the hotels (and the tickets).

    Packages will often be 2.5 times more expensive than doing it yourself and the underlying products won’t even be as good.

    I travelled to Japan on a tour package, have to say it was exceptional. The hotels were central and superb. The “organised” fun was optional, we only went on a few of the excursions to historic sites, they were amazing. Apart from that we did our own thing and appreciated having all the accommodation/travel arranged. The tickets on the package were actually pretty good but I had gotten better ones in the ticket lottery and had no probs shifting the ones that came with the package. The price wasn’t bad at all, I met people in Tokyo and Kyoto who made their own arrangements, though they paid less, I got good value.


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    #113
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I travelled to Japan on a tour package, have to say it was exceptional. The hotels were central and superb. The “organised” fun was optional, we only went on a few of the excursions to historic sites, they were amazing. Apart from that we did our own thing and appreciated having all the accommodation/travel arranged. The tickets on the package were actually pretty good but I had gotten better ones in the ticket lottery and had no probs shifting the ones that came with the package. The price wasn’t bad at all, I met people in Tokyo and Kyoto who made their own arrangements, though they paid less, I got good value.



    We went to Japan and copied the itinerary of one of the tours from Ireland, the cost of the official one was over 5500 I think. We did it for less than 2500 and regularly crossed paths with the same few people at excursions etc.

    It depends what you want though, we took a risk because of the typhoon that hit Japan could have ruined our plans and we would have been on the hook for new flights, if your in a tour you just go to the bar and wait for your rep to fix everything!


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    #114
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    We went to Japan and copied the itinerary of one of the tours from Ireland, the cost of the official one was over 5500 I think. We did it for less than 2500 and regularly crossed paths with the same few people at excursions etc.

    It depends what you want though, we took a risk because of the typhoon that hit Japan could have ruined our plans and we would have been on the hook for new flights, if your in a tour you just go to the bar and wait for your rep to fix everything!

    I don’t doubt you, I’m sure someone will come on here and post that they did it cheaper than you. Personally I’m kinda lazy when it comes to things like this, I like the piece of mind knowing someone else is doing the donkey work for me. I didn’t pay €5500 by the way, and I met people who paid more than €2500 for their trip.

    I was thinking of going to SA, I had hoped by early 2021 things would have improved. Definitely not going now, but if I was, I would definitely be going for an organised tour rather than risking wondering around myself.


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    #115
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I don’t doubt you, I’m sure someone will come on here and post that they did it cheaper than you. Personally I’m kinda lazy when it comes to things like this, I like the piece of mind knowing someone else is doing the donkey work for me. I didn’t pay €5500 by the way, and I met people who paid more than €2500 for their trip.

    I was thinking of going to SA, I had hoped by early 2021 things would have improved. Definitely not going now, but if I was, I would definitely be going for an organised tour rather than risking wondering around myself.



    The biggest saving for us was that 3 of us were travelling, so It was either pay the single supplement to the tour company or book a decent sized Airbnb for each place and we did that.

    If probably means your big nights out are quieter because your not in a big group but you don’t have to worry about what platform the train is leaving from with a big head on you in the morning because the guide has it sorted.

    The other big factor is tickets, your guaranteed tickets on the official one, but you take a gamble with a DIY.

    I can see the merits of the “official” trip but there is a considerable cost difference.


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    #116
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    The biggest saving for us was that 3 of us were travelling, so It was either pay the single supplement to the tour company or book a decent sized Airbnb for each place and we did that.

    If probably means your big nights out are quieter because your not in a big group but you don’t have to worry about what platform the train is leaving from with a big head on you in the morning because the guide has it sorted.

    The other big factor is tickets, your guaranteed tickets on the official one, but you take a gamble with a DIY.

    I can see the merits of the “official” trip but there is a considerable cost difference.

    I can see your point, if I was younger and travelling with mates, I’d sleep on the curtains. In hindsight, I hadn’t realised how easy it was to travel in Japan and how incredibly clean and safe it is, I plan to go on a family holiday there in 2022 and will be organising it myself. But, SA would be different for me, I have to admit at times on trips away I have wondered into some strange places and situations, some even where we were in danger. I just wouldn’t take that chance in SA.


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    #117
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I can see your point, if I was younger and travelling with mates, I’d sleep on the curtains. In hindsight, I hadn’t realised how easy it was to travel in Japan and how incredibly clean and safe it is, I plan to go on a family holiday there in 2022 and will be organising it myself. But, SA would be different for me, I have to admit at times on trips away I have wondered into some strange places and situations, some even where we were in danger. I just wouldn’t take that chance in SA.



    SA has never appealed to me, even though everyone who has been there has said it’s amazing.

    NZ is the trip I want to do, the Irish tour in 2022 would be a good excuse, but planning past February 2021 isn’t a runner at the moment let alone anything else.


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    #118
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    SA has never appealed to me, even though everyone who has been there has said it’s amazing.

    NZ is the trip I want to do, the Irish tour in 2022 would be a good excuse, but planning past February 2021 isn’t a runner at the moment let alone anything else.

    Might be Oz in 2025 for me.


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    #119
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    SA has never appealed to me, even though everyone who has been there has said it’s amazing.

    NZ is the trip I want to do, the Irish tour in 2022 would be a good excuse, but planning past February 2021 isn’t a runner at the moment let alone anything else.

    The only problem with the tours to New Zealand is that, yes they’re good craic and and excuse to go, but it’s their winter.

    My favourite Lions tour though.


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    #120
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    The only problem with the tours to New Zealand is that, yes they’re good craic and and excuse to go, but it’s their winter.

    My favourite Lions tour though.

    Might be a good reason to go twice so...


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    #121
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Only got around to reading yesterday's ST today, but Stephen Jones picked his Lions touring squad. Only three Irish players made the grade; Furlong, Ryan and ummm, Cooney. For context, Scotland had six players named.


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