Lions Tour

Louis Friend · 02-01-2021 11:45pm

South Africa is superb, I think that the security side of things is exaggerated a little. Yes, parts of it are very very dodgy, but the same can be said for a lot of places. And Cape Town is a lot safer than, say, Jo’burg or even Durban these days. Durban used to be great craic.

It’s so much better and cheaper to do these trips yourself. My trip cost 40% of the similar “official” itinerary and everything is better quality (i.e. flight, accommodation, and tickets).

Sheep Shagger · 02-01-2021 11:48pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

South Africa is superb, I think that the security side of things is exaggerated a little. Yes, parts of it are very very dodgy, but the same can be said for a lot of places. And Cape Town is a lot safer than, say, Jo’burg or even Durban these days. Durban used to be great craic.

It’s so much better and cheaper to do these trips yourself.

Didn't like the fact that you can't or shouldn't walk around freely after dark. As for J'Burg the place is a effin kip.

Loved Cape Town and felt normal there.

Agreed on DIY vs tours.

Louis Friend · 02-01-2021 11:54pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Didn't like the fact that you can't or shouldn't walk around freely after dark. As for J'Burg the place is a effin kip.

Loved Cape Town and felt normal there.

Agreed on DIY vs tours.

It is strange relative to, say, Dublin or the UK, but there is so much that’s good about the place. The food, the scenery, the wine, the price of everything, the rugby itself.

It’s also the most straightforward of the three; shorter journey, no time difference, etc.

I like different things about each of the three tours but on balance my favourite is New Zealand. I was blown away by the place in 2017 and by the rugby.

Clareman · 02-01-2021 11:55pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

This will be my 5th Lions Tour and I’ve been at 7 World Cups, so I’d consider myself pretty experienced. Seven, Jesus, I had to add them up!

I book it all myself. The hotels are fully cancellable. The tickets are from the South African Union via a pal of mine in South Africa so refundable if it doesn’t go ahead. And the flight can be rebooked so I’ll just use it to go somewhere else.

OK I both hate and admire you

thomond2006 · 02-01-2021 11:57pm

A Pro16 tour next season is a possibility as well. Accomodation/flight options would be better.

Clareman · 02-01-2021 11:58pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Did it in 2009, (have done Aus and NZ too), was fun but the whole security thing took the shine off it, but that's for another thread.

I did 2009 DIY and you can do it a LOT cheaper than the tour operator even with match tickets, you just need to be organised/creative.

I can never deal with the package deal, I can't cope with "organized fun", even in college I couldn't stand rag week. My ideal of a Lions trip (outside of flights) would be to buy a car on arrival and sell it on departure while getting a room wherever nearby a match.

Clareman · 03-01-2021 12:00am

thomond2006 wrote: »

A Pro16 tour next season is a possibility as well. Accomodation/flight options would be better.

The mystic of the Lions means that it has to be a Lions tour

Sheep Shagger · 03-01-2021 12:00am

Clareman wrote: »

OK I both hate and admire you

Lol.

There's no way I would have been able to do as any trips via a tour co that I did DIY. With kids its now limited to just Ireland and Leinster.

Like you say, organised fun icluding dinner with some hasbeen commentator- cringe and no thanks.

Clareman · 03-01-2021 12:04am

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Lol.

There's no way I would have been able to do as any trips via a tour co that I did DIY. With kids its now limited to just Ireland and Leinster.

Like you say, organised fun icluding dinner with some hasbeen commentator- cringe and no thanks.

Getting to watch a match on telly is a stretch for me at this stage but Mrs. Clareman knows this is a bucket list thing for me so I'd be just about able to swing it, just about, maybe, if we won the lotto

Louis Friend · 03-01-2021 12:04am

It’s more the cost.

Yes the “organised fun” must be tiresome, but they really stiff you with the quality of the hotels (and the tickets).

Packages will often be 2.5 times more expensive than doing it yourself and the underlying products won’t even be as good.

03-01-2021 12:30pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

It’s more the cost.

Yes the “organised fun” must be tiresome, but they really stiff you with the quality of the hotels (and the tickets).

Packages will often be 2.5 times more expensive than doing it yourself and the underlying products won’t even be as good.

I travelled to Japan on a tour package, have to say it was exceptional. The hotels were central and superb. The “organised” fun was optional, we only went on a few of the excursions to historic sites, they were amazing. Apart from that we did our own thing and appreciated having all the accommodation/travel arranged. The tickets on the package were actually pretty good but I had gotten better ones in the ticket lottery and had no probs shifting the ones that came with the package. The price wasn’t bad at all, I met people in Tokyo and Kyoto who made their own arrangements, though they paid less, I got good value.

lawrencesummers · 03-01-2021 2:20pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I travelled to Japan on a tour package, have to say it was exceptional. The hotels were central and superb. The “organised” fun was optional, we only went on a few of the excursions to historic sites, they were amazing. Apart from that we did our own thing and appreciated having all the accommodation/travel arranged. The tickets on the package were actually pretty good but I had gotten better ones in the ticket lottery and had no probs shifting the ones that came with the package. The price wasn’t bad at all, I met people in Tokyo and Kyoto who made their own arrangements, though they paid less, I got good value.

We went to Japan and copied the itinerary of one of the tours from Ireland, the cost of the official one was over 5500 I think. We did it for less than 2500 and regularly crossed paths with the same few people at excursions etc.

It depends what you want though, we took a risk because of the typhoon that hit Japan could have ruined our plans and we would have been on the hook for new flights, if your in a tour you just go to the bar and wait for your rep to fix everything!

03-01-2021 2:42pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

We went to Japan and copied the itinerary of one of the tours from Ireland, the cost of the official one was over 5500 I think. We did it for less than 2500 and regularly crossed paths with the same few people at excursions etc.

It depends what you want though, we took a risk because of the typhoon that hit Japan could have ruined our plans and we would have been on the hook for new flights, if your in a tour you just go to the bar and wait for your rep to fix everything!

I don’t doubt you, I’m sure someone will come on here and post that they did it cheaper than you. Personally I’m kinda lazy when it comes to things like this, I like the piece of mind knowing someone else is doing the donkey work for me. I didn’t pay €5500 by the way, and I met people who paid more than €2500 for their trip.

I was thinking of going to SA, I had hoped by early 2021 things would have improved. Definitely not going now, but if I was, I would definitely be going for an organised tour rather than risking wondering around myself.

lawrencesummers · 03-01-2021 2:54pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t doubt you, I’m sure someone will come on here and post that they did it cheaper than you. Personally I’m kinda lazy when it comes to things like this, I like the piece of mind knowing someone else is doing the donkey work for me. I didn’t pay €5500 by the way, and I met people who paid more than €2500 for their trip.

I was thinking of going to SA, I had hoped by early 2021 things would have improved. Definitely not going now, but if I was, I would definitely be going for an organised tour rather than risking wondering around myself.

The biggest saving for us was that 3 of us were travelling, so It was either pay the single supplement to the tour company or book a decent sized Airbnb for each place and we did that.

If probably means your big nights out are quieter because your not in a big group but you don’t have to worry about what platform the train is leaving from with a big head on you in the morning because the guide has it sorted.

The other big factor is tickets, your guaranteed tickets on the official one, but you take a gamble with a DIY.

I can see the merits of the “official” trip but there is a considerable cost difference.

03-01-2021 3:02pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The biggest saving for us was that 3 of us were travelling, so It was either pay the single supplement to the tour company or book a decent sized Airbnb for each place and we did that.

If probably means your big nights out are quieter because your not in a big group but you don’t have to worry about what platform the train is leaving from with a big head on you in the morning because the guide has it sorted.

The other big factor is tickets, your guaranteed tickets on the official one, but you take a gamble with a DIY.

I can see the merits of the “official” trip but there is a considerable cost difference.

I can see your point, if I was younger and travelling with mates, I’d sleep on the curtains. In hindsight, I hadn’t realised how easy it was to travel in Japan and how incredibly clean and safe it is, I plan to go on a family holiday there in 2022 and will be organising it myself. But, SA would be different for me, I have to admit at times on trips away I have wondered into some strange places and situations, some even where we were in danger. I just wouldn’t take that chance in SA.

lawrencesummers · 03-01-2021 3:09pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I can see your point, if I was younger and travelling with mates, I’d sleep on the curtains. In hindsight, I hadn’t realised how easy it was to travel in Japan and how incredibly clean and safe it is, I plan to go on a family holiday there in 2022 and will be organising it myself. But, SA would be different for me, I have to admit at times on trips away I have wondered into some strange places and situations, some even where we were in danger. I just wouldn’t take that chance in SA.

SA has never appealed to me, even though everyone who has been there has said it’s amazing.

NZ is the trip I want to do, the Irish tour in 2022 would be a good excuse, but planning past February 2021 isn’t a runner at the moment let alone anything else.

03-01-2021 3:43pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

SA has never appealed to me, even though everyone who has been there has said it’s amazing.

NZ is the trip I want to do, the Irish tour in 2022 would be a good excuse, but planning past February 2021 isn’t a runner at the moment let alone anything else.

Might be Oz in 2025 for me.

Louis Friend · 03-01-2021 4:38pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

SA has never appealed to me, even though everyone who has been there has said it’s amazing.

NZ is the trip I want to do, the Irish tour in 2022 would be a good excuse, but planning past February 2021 isn’t a runner at the moment let alone anything else.

The only problem with the tours to New Zealand is that, yes they’re good craic and and excuse to go, but it’s their winter.

My favourite Lions tour though.

lawrencesummers · 03-01-2021 5:26pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

The only problem with the tours to New Zealand is that, yes they’re good craic and and excuse to go, but it’s their winter.

My favourite Lions tour though.

Might be a good reason to go twice so...

Former Former Former · 04-01-2021 8:41pm

Only got around to reading yesterday's ST today, but Stephen Jones picked his Lions touring squad. Only three Irish players made the grade; Furlong, Ryan and ummm, Cooney. For context, Scotland had six players named.

sydthebeat · 04-01-2021 9:35pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Only got around to reading yesterday's ST today, but Stephen Jones picked his Lions touring squad. Only three Irish players made the grade; Furlong, Ryan and ummm, Cooney. For context, Scotland had six players named.

Duncan Taylor at 13 says enough about that WUM

irishbucsfan · 04-01-2021 9:35pm

Why

Richie_Rich89 · 04-01-2021 9:41pm

Taylor's a good player. I can see him making the squad, if he's not injured.

Louis Friend · 04-01-2021 10:05pm

Former Former Former wrote: »

Only got around to reading yesterday's ST today, but Stephen Jones picked his Lions touring squad. Only three Irish players made the grade; Furlong, Ryan and ummm, Cooney. For context, Scotland had six players named.

Ridiculous from Jones as usual.

Furlong will travel, Healy may travel, Ryan will travel, Stander will travel, Murray will travel, Sexton will travel, Ringrose will travel and Larmour may travel.

Burkie1203 · 05-01-2021 8:43am

Rainbow cup and Lions Tour doomed

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1346267685672394753?s=19

Sheep Shagger · 05-01-2021 9:22am

Mmm whilst I don't think the Lions tour will actually happen, the start of that article contradicts itself....

"The Covid variant circulating in South Africa could be resistant to vaccines, a leading expert has suggested, but reckons it could take just six weeks to develop a new jab if needed"

irishbucsfan · 05-01-2021 11:21am

They weren’t going to be vaccinating massively down there before the tour anyway. They haven’t even gotten a date for the arrival of the vaccine, Q2 is optimistic.

sprucemoose · 05-01-2021 12:27pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Lions tour isn’t going to happen outside South Africa.

If it can’t happen this year, it’ll be postponed to next year

next year causes a backlog of games so i dont think its as straightforward as that, especially if it would still be in late july/august - season, lions, season, world cup would not be a good schedule at all. also, from the sounds of it SA are making even more of a balls of covid than we are, not unimaginable that they will still have big problems next summer even.

we're living in very unprecedented times, a home lions tour this summer would be far from the strangest thing to happen if it generates some bit of money for all involved

Louis Friend · 05-01-2021 6:55pm

With England, Ireland, and Wales off to Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa respectively in 2022, that’s a big problem.

I think a home series with big gate receipts and a separate tv deal could be just what all of the unions need. Sky are reportedly against a home series and may pass on it. Amazon paid circa £20m for that awful Autumn Cup. What would they pay for a unique Lions series?

roverjoyce · 05-01-2021 11:02pm

Living with the lions 1997 - the original on sky sports now

One every week for the next 7 weeks

Better than netflix

Sheep Shagger · 05-01-2021 11:12pm

roverjoyce wrote: »

Living with the lions 1997 - the original on sky sports now

One every week for the next 7 weeks

Better than netflix

Earlier ones definitely better before they came sanitised and PC. By the time the 2009 tour came along the documentary was rubbish.

Louis Friend · 05-01-2021 11:23pm

Social media killed a lot of the craic for the players as well. ‘09 was probably the last ‘safe’ tour.

hurleronditch · 05-01-2021 11:27pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Earlier ones definitely better before they came sanitised and PC. By the time the 2009 tour came along the documentary was rubbish.

Let’s be honest, the lions on and off the pitch peaked in 1997. The blend of the novelty of sky sports presentation and production value, improved professionalism of the players, but with the old school mentality of beasting them in training and going on the absolute lash when required was perfect, especially when they won the series.

Everything else since has been a bit forced. Miles Harrison, Greenwood, Quinell at al screaming “IMMMMMMORATALLLITY” at us at every turn has turned me right off.

Ill still watch whenever it’s on and love to see the Irish lads get picked and go well, but I won’t miss it if it’s not on either.

Sheep Shagger · 05-01-2021 11:32pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

Social media killed a lot of the craic for the players as well. ‘09 was probably the last ‘safe’ tour.

While it wasn't social media, 2005 in NZ had people taking pics of players out on their camera phones and sharing around.

You can't blame players for not wanting to be put in public having a few beers, in between people taking photos you have arseholes **** stirring looking for a reaction they can share on WhatsApp.

Louis Friend · 05-01-2021 11:37pm

Ah, it didn’t. Yes ‘97 was big and it kind of brought the Lions back to the fore, but, aside from the dross in 2005, it’s been excellent since.

I was lucky enough to be in the Gabba in 2001 for ‘Waltzing O’Driscoll’, I was in South Africa in 2009, and I was in Sydney to see the Lions win the 2013 series in style.

But it would be hard to top Wellington in 2017 and the Lions’ win in the rain. Bye bye Sonny Bill, the tries like Falateu’s.

Honestly, it didn’t peak in ‘97. It’s been super since.

hurleronditch · 05-01-2021 11:54pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

Ah, it didn’t. Yes ‘97 was big and it kind of brought the Lions back to the fore, but, aside from the dross in 2005, it’s been excellent since.

I was lucky enough to be in the Gabba in 2001 for ‘Waltzing O’Driscoll’, I was in South Africa in 2009, and I was in Sydney to see the Lions win the 2013 series in style.

But it would be hard to top Wellington in 2017 and the Lions’ win in the rain. Bye bye Sonny Bill, the tries like Falateu’s.

Honestly, it didn’t peak in ‘97. It’s been super since.

Having attended all of them, I think it’s fair to say you are a Lions fan!!

I’m sure I’d enjoy it if I ever went, but no chant/song/refrain in any sport in the world irritates me as much as a bunch of English lads on a £10k a man package deal screaming lions, lions, lions over and over again, would do my nut in ðŸ˜‚

Louis Friend · 06-01-2021 12:02am

hurleronditch wrote: »

Having attended all of them, I think it’s fair to say you are a Lions fan!!

I’m sure I’d enjoy it if I ever went, but no chant/song/refrain in any sport in the world irritates me as much as a bunch of English lads on a £10k a man package deal screaming lions, lions, lions over and over again, would do my nut in ðŸ˜‚

I missed 2005 (thankfully).

Funny you say it, but at Eden Park in 2017, we were outnumbered by the All Blacks fans and it showed. And then in Wellington, it was is if Middle England had arrived and the “Lions! Lions! Lions!” chants were a welcome sight and sound.

The English you meet on the tours, like at rugby generally, tend to be sound. And you’re chanting “Lions!” with them.

The tours are amazing craic.

irishbucsfan · 06-01-2021 9:45am

They’re currently having to do 7-8k tests for all fans who attended the Australia v India cricket match in Melbourne, a guy who attended it MIGHT have caught the virus there. The cost of that and the demands that puts on the health system are a good indicator of why an international tour is never going to be profitable. And that’s at 25% capacity in a country that have had very low numbers since September.

Hard to see the UK/Ireland getting there in time for the tour organisers to do this, hard to see the authorities being comfortable with assisting in this. Especially given the touring side are coming from a nation with a scary variant of the virus. They’d have to be making that decision by February at the latest you’d have to think.

hahashake · 06-01-2021 1:22pm

I'm guessing there is no appetite for a concurrent national teams tours and the Lions tour next year.

Sheep Shagger · 06-01-2021 8:09pm

hahashake wrote: »

I'm guessing there is no appetite for a concurrent national teams tours and the Lions tour next year.

Player welfare groups would never allow it- and rightly so, also national tours would become a joke with players protected given they'd want to play for the Lions.

StevenToast · 06-01-2021 8:14pm

Postpone the south africa lions tour until 2025....

Problem solved

hahashake · 06-01-2021 8:18pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Player welfare groups would never allow it- and rightly so, also national tours would become a joke with players protected given they'd want to play for the Lions.

Concurrent not consecutive.

PTH2009 · 07-01-2021 1:33am

If this UK & Ireland tour gets the go ahead its hard to see them playing a test match in Ireland without a full Croke Park (a lot may come down to the governments stance on mass gatherings and we all know how cautious they are)

Id go in a heartbeat like many others here, even a trip over to the UK (Wembley/Twick/Cardiff etc) would be brilliant

thomond2006 · 07-01-2021 1:37am

StevenToast wrote: »

Postpone the south africa lions tour until 2025....

Problem solved

The Aussies will love that idea.

AbusesToilets · 07-01-2021 2:01am

It's harsh to say that SA should lose an opportunity for a tour, but imo it's a fair reflection for the mismanagement of the government and Union as a whole.

07-01-2021 9:59am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's harsh to say that SA should lose an opportunity for a tour, but imo it's a fair reflection for the mismanagement of the government and Union as a whole.

Remember that they are the current World Rugby champions, so it is as a privilege to tour and play there. Also, judging sports on the performance of the country’s government isn’t smart, we would suffer by that metric.

FlubberJones · 07-01-2021 10:09am

Have been considering the trip myself but with the current situation and the dialogue coming from the respective rugby leadership it's a real gamble to look at booking anything. Which is a huge shame this would / will be an incredible tour and such a great location.

OldRio · 07-01-2021 10:56am

It comes down to Money, (that's all the Lions is nowadays and has been for a long time) Versus Health.

I would hope the answer is obvious.

Paul Smeenus · 07-01-2021 11:02am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's harsh to say that SA should lose an opportunity for a tour, but imo it's a fair reflection for the mismanagement of the government and Union as a whole.

Not everything is a punishment or a judgement. It's a world-wide health crisis that we are trying to muddle through, with varying degrees of success.

It doesn't matter if SA "deserve" or "don't deserve" it if it's not safe.

hahashake · 07-01-2021 11:40am

If we are talking rewards/punishments then NZ deserves to settle the draw.

Seriously though, after the last 10 months, a socially distanced (i.e. not capacity) Ireland & UK 2020 tour seems like the best bet at this stage. Simply too hard to squeeze it in at a later date. Going ahead next year with crowds in SA would be preferable for me personally.

Lions Tour

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