BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

30-06-2020 2:33pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I find this a very strange study to have done.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0630/1150450-english-tv-commentary-shows-racial-bias-study-claims/

I've also noted that most sprinters who are black get complimented on their speed and explosive power out of the blocks. It's just racist to claim that the majority of world class sprinters are black. They obviously only want proportional representation.

It's definitely not a predisposition that certain races have for certain tasks (not all mind you, but enough to see a trend).

Racism.

****ing white privilege.

30-06-2020 2:48pm

Geuze wrote: »

Am I reading the correct website?

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Is this the correct organisation?

I will highlight below what most sensible people reject:

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

Mothers, parents and children is a very strange use of language....

silverharp · 30-06-2020 3:00pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So what exactly has turned you off the movement afresh this time? And is it worth considering that peope who keep being turned off the movent at every turn were actually only in favour of BLM as long as they didn't achieve any actual change? They were never in favour in practice so they're not exactly any loss to the movement.

An interesting opinion I had come across is that there is an assumption that BLM is aimed at white people where in fact this message is aimed at black people or as well, if Black people dont think "BLM" then you have a problem.

If I was to be critical of the BLM movement it would be at worst a suspicion that they are just in it for the fight and are not about solutions, secondly if they are about solutions they are sabotaging themselves by making it a black only problem. Contrast with how the gay movement approached AIDS in the 80's. They didnt make it a gay problem, they said this is a society issue.

If the focus is meant to be about perceived bad Police treatment against blacks in the US then they really should make it a "white" problem too as the police there arent shy about killing unarmed white people.

Mr. Karate · 30-06-2020 3:01pm

Geuze wrote: »

Am I reading the correct website?

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Is this the correct organisation?

I will highlight below what most sensible people reject:

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

Yep, they seek the destruction of our societies under the guise of seeking equal rights. What has burning down businesses, toppling statues and looting for new new sneakers, HD TVs have to do with George Floyd?

Sonics2k · 30-06-2020 3:17pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yep, they seek the destruction of our societies under the guise of seeking equal rights. What has burning down businesses, toppling statues and looting for new new sneakers, HD TVs have to do with George Floyd?

Absolutely nothing, and you know well that massive amounts of the rioting was done by people not associated with the peaceful marches, it included some black people, but a crap tonne of white dudes who had nothing to do with it and even some cops.

Meanwhile you can actively see BLM members and supporters desperately trying to stop the looters and rioters.

There was so many videos proving the above, but it seems you ignored it.

El_Duderino 09 · 30-06-2020 3:17pm

silverharp wrote: »

An interesting opinion I had come across is that there is an assumption that BLM is aimed at white people where in fact this message is aimed at black people or as well, if Black people dont think "BLM" then you have a problem.

If I was to be critical of the BLM movement it would be at worst a suspicion that they are just in it for the fight and are not about solutions, secondly if they are about solutions they are sabotaging themselves by making it a black only problem. Contrast with how the gay movement approached AIDS in the 80's. They didnt make it a gay problem, they said this is a society issue.

If the focus is meant to be about perceived bad Police treatment against blacks in the US then they really should make it a "white" problem too as the police there arent shy about killing unarmed white people.

Yeah it would be much easier to ignore of they were a hugely broad group that campaigned for world peace, cures to cancer, heard disease, racism, poverty, crime, the environment, unlimited free energy and whatever else you're having.

In reality the more pointed they make the message the more penetration they can have. And I think you'll agree that they've made waves in the last few weeks. Huge social and government change, discussions around the dinner table and I tenet (as we're doing right now).

So is it fair to say they your criticism amounts to criticism of the fact that it's been successful?

Do you suppprt BLM yourself?

30-06-2020 3:22pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yep, they seek the destruction of our societies under the guise of seeking equal rights. What has burning down businesses, toppling statues and looting for new new sneakers, HD TVs have to do with George Floyd?

It's about disrupting society.

It's within their own literature and they're quite open about it. It's an extension of how the Black Panthers behaved. The logic being that traditional peaceful protests don't accomplish much because they're allowed to fade into the background... whereas causing "a scene" grabs the attention of everyone, therefore making their protests memorable. There's no limit on what they consider acceptable behavior as long as their "message" is promoted. Which is why they receive a lot of criticism, because their organisation is too similar to a militant approach, again, similar to the Black Panthers.

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 3:23pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Have you actually read their manifesto and aims?? I don't think you have, and therefore you, and the likes of you, are useful idiots for them.

Yes I have, thanks.

30-06-2020 3:24pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah it would be much easier to ignore of they were a hugely broad group that campaigned for world peace, cures to cancer, heard disease, racism, poverty, crime, the environment, unlimited free energy and whatever else you're having.

In reality the more pointed they make the message the more penetration they can have. And I think you'll agree that they've made waves in the last few weeks. Huge social and government change, discussions around the dinner table and I tenet (as we're doing right now).

So is it fair to say they your criticism amounts to criticism of the fact that it's been successful?

Do you suppprt BLM yourself?

I wouldn't be particularly supportive of BLM. Are you supportive of the "police free" reclaimed zones?

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 3:25pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I would say the complete opposite. Every time a black person is murdered by a cop it makes headline news and there are riots and political handwringing.

Doesn't happen every time a cop shoots a white person, which happens a lot more.

You think there is a riot everytime?
You clearly have no clue about the reality of the situation.

Also the distinction is police shooting an innocent black person.

silverharp · 30-06-2020 3:25pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah it would be much easier to ignore of they were a hugely broad group that campaigned for world peace, cures to cancer, heard disease, racism, poverty, crime, the environment, unlimited free energy and whatever else you're having.

You stawmanned my point there

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you suppprt BLM yourself?

Yes of course , all lives matter

El_Duderino 09 · 30-06-2020 3:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wouldn't be particularly supportive of BLM. Are you supportive of the "police free" reclaimed zones?

Some aspects I'm very supportive of. The protest in general I'm very supportive of. The police free zones are certainly getting a lot of publicity and that's great.

Obviously it's not a realistic long term goal and it's not something that I'd support bring generalised to the rest if the country. It's a great point of protest though. So, yes and no. On balance, yes. Great work is being done.

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 3:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How did I take away from the purpose of BLM? Yeah... I didn't.

It's completely pointless discussing anything with you because you insist on inserting crap that I haven't said, and the seeking to argue your own inserted crap.

"You want to make the whole debate solely about racism... I'm more interested in the complete situation."

*You* want to make the BLM matter about something other than *they* want it to be about.
How is that anything other than you diluting their stance and taking away from their purpose?

30-06-2020 3:42pm

GreeBo wrote: »

"You want to make the whole debate solely about racism... I'm more interested in the complete situation."

*You* want to make the BLM matter about something other than *they* want it to be about.
How is that anything other than you diluting their stance and taking away from their purpose?

I referred to issues that concern the black community other than direct racism, and if you had really done your research, then you would know that BLM have some references (to those particular areas) in their literature.. As such, what I spoke about was relevant to the thread, just not concerned with the area you want to talk about.

So... go ahead complaining about racism with others, and if someone wants to discuss other areas of concern, then, they don't need your permission to do so. It's all still related to BLM and equality for Black people in the US.

Also, as far as I'm aware, BLM didn't start this thread, so discussing anything here is not taking away from their purpose.

El_Duderino 09 · 30-06-2020 3:45pm

silverharp wrote: »

You stawmanned my point there

You criticised ut because it's just about black people. What should it be about, in your view?

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 3:52pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yep, they seek the destruction of our societies under the guise of seeking equal rights. What has burning down businesses, toppling statues and looting for new new sneakers, HD TVs have to do with George Floyd?

Tar, meet brush.

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 3:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be particularly supportive of BLM. Are you supportive of the "police free" reclaimed zones?

If police were repeatedly targeting and in some cases killing you and were not protecting or serving you, your opinion of a police free zone might change.
If you renamed it a "Racist Free" zone would you get more support?

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 3:57pm

GreeBo wrote: »

If police were repeatedly targeting and in some cases killing you and were not protecting or serving you, your opinion of a police free zone might change.
If you renamed it a "Racist Free" zone would you get more support?

Yea, but the police aren't doing what you're claiming though. There isn't systematic racism against blacks in the police.

silverharp · 30-06-2020 4:04pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You criticised ut because it's just about black people. What should it be about, in your view?

the police keeping everyone safe as much as humanly possible, not just black people, it wasnt cryptic

SozBbz · 30-06-2020 4:11pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Yea, but the police aren't doing what you're claiming though. There isn't systematic racism against blacks in the police.

Tell that to George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Elijah McClain, Tamir Rice, Walter Scott, Alton Stirling, Philando Castile.....and these are just some of the high profile cases.

Bur since internet randomer Abuses Toilets says theres nothing to see here, then clearly its all anti white nonsense.

briany · 30-06-2020 4:20pm

The thing about calling for peaceful protest is that peaceful protest feels like an alternative term for 'protest we can ignore, and then ridicule'. Thinking back to the 99 percent protests, there was a serious whiff of, 'Yeah, I'd love to go down and protest meself, but some of us have work during the week...'

And the problem with violent protest, or even protests where a proportion of protesters become violent, is that they contain violence and then the protest is quickly dismissed as pure thuggery, and nothing more than a nihilistic orgy of vandalism and theft.

So, really, there's a playbook either way. You're either a hippie bum who needs to get with the program, or you're a hoodlum who needs to go to jail.

30-06-2020 4:20pm

Apologies if someone has made this point already;

The reason for it being 'Black Lives Matter', instead of 'All Lives matter', is that, after a long history of white people in charge, we don't need to fight for our place at the table.

Complaining about the movement being only about 'black lives' is like complaining that there's no Straight Pride parade.

briany · 30-06-2020 4:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies if someone has made this point already;

The reason for it being 'Black Lives Matter', instead of 'All Lives matter', is that, after a long history of white people in charge, we don't need to fight for our place at the table.

Complaining about the movement being only about 'black lives' is like complaining that there's no Straight Pride parade.

That reminds me, it's almost time for the yearly Loyalist equality parades up north. Who's going?

Foxtrol · 30-06-2020 4:25pm

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Yep, they seek the destruction of our societies under the guise of seeking equal rights. What has burning down businesses, toppling statues and looting for new new sneakers, HD TVs have to do with George Floyd?

So you're associating the BLM group on the worst people that claim links to the BLM message.

By that logic I presume you also associate the people that use the WLM and ALM with the White Supremacists, Nazi's and Far Right groups that love those messages.

Glinda · 30-06-2020 4:30pm

The trouble with 'White Lives Matter' or 'All Lives Matter' is that they aren't used as a stand-alone statement, they are a reply to the statement that black lives matter. So, they are a contradiction or a rebuttal of the statement they reply to.

If I met a friend in the street and they said 'Hey, Glinda, it's my birthday!" and I replied with "lots of other people have their birthday today too" it would be rude and dismissive. If I mentioned at another time, away from that conversational context, that lots of people have their birthdays on the same day it would be perfectly neutral.

If someone studying Ireland's history of Mother and Baby homes said to you "it was awful, so many little children died", and you replied with "People die every day" it would be rude and dismissive. Because, in that context, it's a rebuttal of the significance of the thing they just said. Away from that particular conversation, it doesn't have the same connotations, and it's a perfectly acceptable statement.

The reason 'black lives matter' needs to be said right now is because, quite clearly, some very powerful people think they don't, or at leaast not as much as white people's lives. Trying to broaden the spotlight out and away from the problems being discussed in this particular conversation (i.e. problems black people want to talk about urgently, because they are being killed) absolutely is diluting and diverting from the main issue. Not that there arent other important issues, but this is it's own thing, and deserves it's own space.

People shouting about how their own particular (unrelated) problem should be brought into the centre of the discussion are deflecting from the very real problem at hand. That's why it's an issue.

Foxtrol · 30-06-2020 4:34pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

I would say the complete opposite. Every time a black person is murdered by a cop it makes headline news and there are riots and political handwringing.

Doesn't happen every time a cop shoots a white person, which happens a lot more.

The only thing quoting cop shooting data does is show a person doesnt understand how bad the data is.

If you were truly interested in less white people getting shot by cops you'd support BLM, as the majority of their requests for reforms are common sense, what we take for granted in Ireland, and unarguably would help everyone in every community.

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 4:35pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Tell that to George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Elijah McClain, Tamir Rice, Walter Scott, Alton Stirling, Philando Castile.....and these are just some of the high profile cases.

Bur since internet randomer Abuses Toilets says theres nothing to see here, then clearly its all anti white nonsense.

There are an equal number of white people to match those cases. It's not about race, poor policing in many instances, but not because the institutions of law enforcement are set against the black community.

https://samharris.org/can-pull-back-brink/

https://time.com/4404987/police-violence/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

Some pieces that go into more detail with respect to facts around the conversation. The video is on Tony Timpa dying in similar circumstances to George Floyd, perhaps worse for the fact that he called 911 himself for help.

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 4:39pm

Glinda wrote: »

The trouble with 'White Lives Matter' or 'All Lives Matter' is that they aren't used as a stand-alone statement, they are a reply to the statement that black lives matter. So, they are a contradiction or a rebuttal of the statement they reply to.

If I met a friend in the street and they said 'Hey, Glinda, it's my birthday!" and I replied with "lots of other people have their birthday today too" it would be rude and dismissive. If I mentioned at another time, away from that conversational context, that lots of people have their birthdays on the same day it would be perfectly neutral.

If someone studying Ireland's history of Mother and Baby homes said to you "it was awful, so many little children died", and you replied with "People die every day" it would be rude and dismissive. Because, in that context, it's a rebuttal of the significance of the thing they just said. Away from that particular conversation, it doesn't have the same connotations, and it's a perfectly acceptable statement.

The reason 'black lives matter' needs to be said right now is because, quite clearly, some very powerful people think they don't, or at leaast not as much as white people's lives. Trying to broaden the spotlight out and away from the problems being discussed in this particular conversation (i.e. problems black people want to talk about urgently, because they are being killed) absolutely is diluting and diverting from the main issue. Not that there arent other important issues, but this is it's own thing, and deserves it's own space.

People shouting about how their own particular (unrelated) problem should be brought into the centre of the discussion are deflecting from the very real problem at hand. That's why it's an issue.

So, when is it appropriate for other issues to grace the limelight? Given that addressing many of the actual problems surrounding this issue is process that will likely take decades. For example, we're not talking about the issue of climate change, even though is the single most pressing concern for us as a species. We're not talking about the 100,000 people dying per year due to the opioid epidemic. We're not talking about the humanitarian disaster in Yemen, or Syria. We're not talking about the massive homeless population in our country, or the ridiculous cost of healthcare.

Is a person now a racist because they don't center their live around the issues of the black community, or dispute the ideas that White people should feel ashamed or responsible for every problem in the US, and the world at large?

SozBbz · 30-06-2020 4:40pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

There are an equal number of white people to match those cases. It's not about race, poor policing in many instances, but not because the institutions of law enforcement are set against the black community.

Well white people account for over 76% of the US population, while black people are just over 13%.

So if as you say, there is an equal number, then black people do indeed have a problem.

Source - https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US

Foxtrol · 30-06-2020 4:43pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

There are an equal number of white people to match those cases. It's not about race, poor policing in many instances, but not because the institutions of law enforcement are set against the black community.

Some pieces that go into more detail with respect to facts around the conversation. The video is on Tony Timpa dying in similar circumstances to George Floyd, perhaps worse for the fact that he called 911 himself for help.

Then you should be supporting BLM demanding police reform.

They aren't demanding separate rules on how police deal with different races. They aren't saying they want to ban choke holds for black suspects but the cops can keep choking whites.

It seems like BLM are much more directed in helping all communities than you are, where your focus is just on invalidating the perspective of the black community.

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 4:44pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Well white people account for over 76% of the US population, while black people are just over 13%.

So if as you say, there is an equal number, then black people do indeed have a problem.

Source - https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US

The obvious rebuttal to that is the representation of blacks in the murder and violent crimes statistics. Black and Hispanic officers are more likely to shoot black suspects than white officers. Does that fit a narrative of systemic racism?

rossie1977 · 30-06-2020 4:46pm

During NYCs stop and frisk black men were stopped 6 times as much as white men.

You are far far more likely to be pulled over while driving if you are a black male. Trevor Noah mentioned on his show he had been stopped dozens of times by police the first year he arrived in America.

There are MORE black men per capita in US jails than there were black men in South African jails at the peak of apartheid..that stat alone is insane.

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 4:47pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Then you should be supporting BLM demanding police reform.

They aren't demanding separate rules on how police deal with different races. They aren't saying they want to ban choke holds for black suspects but the cops can keep choking whites.

It seems like BLM are much more directed in helping all communities than you are, where your focus is just on invalidating the perspective of the black community.

I'm fully support of reform for the legal system (can't call it the Justice system, given how prejudiced against the poor it is).

If BLM were so concerned with helping their communities, why are they utterly absent in places like Chicago, protesting the violence there? Why do they only appear when there is a death by a black person at the hands of police, yet absent when a white person dies in similar circumstances?

30-06-2020 4:49pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The obvious rebuttal to that is the representation of blacks in the murder and violent crimes statistics. Black and Hispanic officers are more likely to shoot black suspects than white officers. Does that fit a narrative of systemic racism?

But that's all because of whites and slavery. Blacks never had a chance. It's all systemic.

Rinse and repeat.

Foxtrol · 30-06-2020 4:50pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The obvious rebuttal to that is the representation of blacks in the murder and violent crimes statistics. Black and Hispanic officers are more likely to shoot black suspects than white officers. Does that fit a narrative of systemic racism?

Do you want to open the gates to how poorly black people are treated when it gets to trial?

Black people are significant more likely to proven to be falsely convicted of a crime while also seeing significantly longer sentences than a white person found guilty of the same crime. Throw in the proven racist police practices over the decades and the ridiculous bail laws that have a worse impact on minority communities, which means people will do less time if they admit to a crime they didn't do than stay in jail to await their day in court.

Glinda · 30-06-2020 4:55pm

Well, it is possible to have more than one important discussion happening at a time. If your real complaint is the amount of media time being given to BLM, that's a separate issue, and not answerable by campaigning on WLM or ALM.

And the suggestion that climate change or other global issues not getting enough attention is the reason why people object to BLM doesn't hold up - those chanting 'white lives matter' are self-evidently not climate activists or supporters of aid programmes in Yemen.

Calls of WLM or ALM are coming from two types of people, people who are worried that black people are somehow trying to say that white lives don't matter (often these people aren't very familiar with the discussion, or have had fears whipped up by the second type) and people who are racist and want to keep the power structures in place that damage black people (even though these are very damaging for everyone else too), because they have something to lose.

Foxtrol · 30-06-2020 4:56pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'm fully support of reform for the legal system (can't call it the Justice system, given how prejudiced against the poor it is).

Then you should be supporting BLM rather than trying to make pedantic points based on garbage data.

If BLM were so concerned with helping their communities, why are they utterly absent in places like Chicago, protesting the violence there? Why do they only appear when there is a death by a black person at the hands of police, yet absent when a white person dies in similar circumstances?

Can you not see the fundamental difference between in a murder committed by a criminal in a community and a murder carried out by someone given powers by the state?

I suppose you see terrorist murders in the north as being the same as the acts carried out by British forces on Bloody Sunday.

suicide_circus · 30-06-2020 4:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies if someone has made this point already;

The reason for it being 'Black Lives Matter', instead of 'All Lives matter', is that, after a long history of white people in charge, we don't need to fight for our place at the table.

Complaining about the movement being only about 'black lives' is like complaining that there's no Straight Pride parade.

Of course people saying all or white lives matter are being disingenuous.

But then, BLM are also being disingenuous.

If their aim was the preservation of black lives they would be looking at the primary causes of fatality in the african american community such as higher rate of obesity and the mind boggling homicide/murder rates.

Removing the police and dismantling the family unit will not preserve black lives, quite the opposite.

They are a hard left political group. The hard right has some of those too.

SozBbz · 30-06-2020 4:59pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you want to open the gates to how poorly black people are treated when it gets to trial?

Black people are significant more likely to proven to be falsely convicted of a crime while also seeing significantly longer sentences than a white person found guilty of the same crime. Throw in the proven racist police practices over the decades and the ridiculous bail laws that have a worse impact on minority communities, which means people will do less time if they admit to a crime they didn't do than stay in jail to await their day in court.

+1 to All of this.

Instead of contradicting my point @ Abuses Toilets, you've actually brother up other areas in which systemic racism impacts on the black community.

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 5:01pm

[QUOTE=Foxtrol

;113896275]Then you should be supporting BLM rather than trying to make pedantic points based on garbage data.

Why must I support BLM in order to be for judicial reform? Is the black experience the only valid one by which to view the system? The main determining factor when it comes to the legal system is money, as in whether you can afford competent representation. It's not specific to skin colour.

Can you not see the fundamental difference between in a murder committed by a criminal in a community and a murder carried out by someone given powers by the state?

I suppose you see terrorist murders in the north as being the same as the acts carried out by British forces on Bloody Sunday.

Surely death is death, or is the value of a black life only in it's ability to be used as tool in the racial struggle?

rossie1977 · 30-06-2020 5:01pm

Nobody is calling for removal of police. That's nonsense being spread on Fox News or Youtube. Reform doesn't mean removal.

Far left ideals require strong policing not weak. Look at China, look at North Korea, Russia or Eastern Europe under communism, police states all.

rossie1977 · 30-06-2020 5:07pm

The American justice system and policing need a huge overhaul. Right now whole system is broken.

No other developed country on Earth will something like this happen because a child takes a $1 toy out of a shop

Irish Praetorian · 30-06-2020 5:10pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you want to open the gates to how poorly black people are treated when it gets to trial?

Black people are significant more likely to proven to be falsely convicted of a crime while also seeing significantly longer sentences than a white person found guilty of the same crime. Throw in the proven racist police practices over the decades and the ridiculous bail laws that have a worse impact on minority communities, which means people will do less time if they admit to a crime they didn't do than stay in jail to await their day in court.

Could I trouble you for a few sources on these two? It's just I watch these debates go back and forth and bit without much progress whilst this point of yours seems particularly intriguing.

Foxtrol · 30-06-2020 5:16pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Why must I support BLM in order to be for judicial reform? Is the black experience the only valid one by which to view the system?

You've stated your concerns for white people being shot by the police.

If you support reforms that they are seeking then it seems completely against your interests to be so aggressive against them.

It leads me to believe you either 1) don't really care about cops killing people or 2) your issue with BLM/black community/own fragility is greater than your feeling towards the cops killing people.

The main determining factor when it comes to the legal system is money, as in whether you can afford competent representation. It's not specific to skin colour.

You can say the main factor is wealth but poverty is much more prevalent in one community than another, a major part due to slavery and segregation etc

And the average black family's net worth is 10 times less than a white family.

As you're a Patriots fan, in Boston it is even worse - the average net worth of a white family is $247,500, while the average net worth for a black family is $8. Yes, $8.

Surely death is death, or is the value of a black life only in it's ability to be used as tool in the racial struggle?

A murder by a person the government gives power to is very different than by a random criminal.

Government is much more likely to bow to public pressure than a criminal.

I'm the one that has an issue with cops murdering anyone and it is one of the reasons why I support police reform and BLM. You seem to only see black deaths as a point scoring tool.

AbusesToilets · 30-06-2020 5:33pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

You've stated your concerns for white people being shot by the police.

If you support reforms that they are seeking then it seems completely against your interests to be so aggressive against them.

It leads me to believe you either 1) don't really care about cops killing people or 2) your issue with BLM/black community/own fragility is greater than your feeling towards the cops killing people.

Ah White Fragility, that equivalent to the Trial by Water. No matter the answer, it serves as evidence to support views of racism. My objection to BLM is that it's messaging is one of division, of segregation. It's one of with us or against us, there's no room for careful examination of the issues, or entertaining alternative narratives. Any deviation from their groupthink is evidence of racism.

You can say the main factor is wealth but poverty is much more prevalent in one community than another, a major part due to slavery and segregation etc

And the average black family's net worth is 10 times less than a white family.

As you're a Patriots fan, in Boston it is even worse - the average net worth of a white family is $247,500, while the average net worth for a black family is $8. Yes, $8.

Wealth inequality is a universal issue, and one where the Black community has been consistently targeted for decades. You and I would be in violent agreement on the need to address that. It's all connected together, Red lining, leading to decreased wealth generational and property values, leading to poorer educational opportunities. Tied to the war on drugs impacting Black communities, in service to the profiteering off the prison industry, all swirling together.

A murder by a person the government gives power to is very different than by a random criminal.

Government is much more likely to bow to public pressure than a criminal.

I'm the one that has an issue with cops murdering anyone and it is one of the reasons why I support police reform and BLM. You seem to only see black deaths as a point scoring tool.

Murder is terrible in any circumstance, no one is arguing against that premise. Improving policing is a goal everyone should be in favor of, but that doesn't mean demonising police or framing them an intrinsically racist. BLM's messaging wants to portray the issue as one of systemic racism, there's no nuance to it. Nor is there near the energy to protest or highlight far greater instances of black deaths relating to crime in their communities. Why is that? If you were to look at in purely sterile terms, surely one ought to focus on the situations that lead to the most deaths?

iamstop · 30-06-2020 5:46pm

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Right,

I have just read this article, and to be honest, either it is Really badly worded, or it is telling us to keep quiet and know our place.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-misconceptions-behind-the-white-lives-matter-banner-12013727

Can someone clarify the meaning of this for us normal people?

Are you actually that tone deaf OP? He explains it in clear, present day English. What part are you struggling with? Maybe I can put it in even simpler terms for you? Maybe if a fellow white person explains it to you you might have a better job of understanding?

30-06-2020 5:48pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Some aspects I'm very supportive of. The protest in general I'm very supportive of. The police free zones are certainly getting a lot of publicity and that's great.

Obviously it's not a realistic long term goal and it's not something that I'd support bring generalised to the rest if the country. It's a great point of protest though. So, yes and no. On balance, yes. Great work is being done.

So "on balance", the people being shot and killed is worth it and "on balance" it's great.

Interesting.

yourdeadwright · 30-06-2020 6:03pm

90% of people or more don't understand that the BLM movement is not quit what it seems,
The message of equal rights for black people is just a small part of what they are about, That part is what gets people on board and gets them funding but at heart they are an extreme left movement of Marxists,
In a way the have tricked the, avarage man and women on the street, and done it amazingly well,

30-06-2020 6:11pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

90% of people or more don't understand that the BLM movement is not quit what it seems,
The message of equal rights for black people is just a small part of what they are about, That part is what gets people on board and gets them funding but at heart they are an extreme left movement of Marxists,
In a way the have tricked the, avarage man and women on the street, and done it amazingly well,

Tricked/brainwashed/bullied

Silentcorner · 30-06-2020 6:18pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

90% of people or more don't understand that the BLM movement is not quit what it seems,
The message of equal rights for black people is just a small part of what they are about, That part is what gets people on board and gets them funding but at heart they are an extreme left movement of Marxists,
In a way the have tricked the, avarage man and women on the street, and done it amazingly well,

If you think of the tools of communication available to all of us today, the amount of news content and it's delivery method we are primed for conditioning....it's gone into 5th gear over the last number of years and it is threatening stability in some very big cities in the US in particular.

This is modern day hysteria, people succumbing to repeated emotive negative content....not the first time in history that has happened.

BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Comments