The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

Faugheen · 19-01-2021 5:11pm

Bowie wrote: »

Yes. Hardly nefarious. It was a press conference. They tend to be recorded and reported.

But with press conferences not all journalists can be there due to COVID, and are relying on the press officers to send the audio onto them.

That’s where it’s a problem.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 5:14pm

Faugheen wrote: »

But with press conferences not all journalists can be there due to COVID, and are relying on the press officers to send the audio onto them.

That’s where it’s a problem.

People create a press release edited to make them look good. That's how it works. Press releases are not note for note record.

Faugheen · 19-01-2021 5:17pm

Bowie wrote: »

People create a press release edited to make them look good. That's how it works. Press releases are not note for note record.

I’m not talking about press releases.

I’m talking about actual, on the record statements made by elected representatives.

They hoped none of the journalists would notice and that is wrong, no matter how much you want to downplay it.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 5:22pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I’m not talking about press releases.

I’m talking about actual, on the record statements made by elected representatives.

They hoped none of the journalists would notice and that is wrong, no matter how much you want to downplay it.

Not down playing it. Speaking on your reaction. It's commonplace. In fact it's a press officers job to edit such things.
The idea they did this from a recorded press conference means it's easy to find what the left out anyway. I don't see a problem. Not saying they didn't do it. If they reversed any statement or included text that didn't happen, I'd see a problem.

blanch152 · 19-01-2021 5:23pm

Bowie wrote: »

Planning a bank robbery :rolleyes:

How about wanting to keep policy ideas secret until they iron out the wrinkles? How about deciding who to put forward for election before having a record? etc. etc.

Would like to see the leak thing here TBH.

Both of those are corrupt uses of public money.

Special advisors are hired out of public money to advise on government business not to devise policy ideas for political parties or decide election candidates.

The latter is probably against SF rules as well.

blanch152 · 19-01-2021 5:25pm

Bowie wrote: »

Not under FF/FG it won't.

So the laws of economics stop working when FF/FG are in government?

I've heard it all now.

Faugheen · 19-01-2021 5:32pm

Bowie wrote: »

Not down playing it. Speaking on your reaction. It's commonplace. In fact it's a press officers job to edit such things.
The idea they did this from a recorded press conference means it's easy to find what the left out anyway. I don't see a problem. Not saying they didn't do it. If they reversed any statement or included text that didn't happen, I'd see a problem.

It is absolutely not ‘commonplace’ to edit a press conference to send to journalists who couldn’t be there, whereby on-the-record remarks were made.

This wasn’t just a press conference between Cullinane, Boylan and the press officer. Members of the media were there. They heard them say it. They likely have recordings of them saying it. However, SF sent an edited version to journalists who weren’t there.

If you honestly can’t see the issue here, then any remark you make about the Tanaiste telling lies is redundant. This is completely dishonest of SF.

jm08 · 19-01-2021 5:46pm

Faugheen wrote: »

I’d also concerned about a political party which is trying to get into government deleting segments of a press conference that they thought might be problematic.

It was such a foolish thing to do.

What was deleted?

FreudianSlippers · 19-01-2021 5:50pm

EDIT: You know what, it's really not worth my time engaging with people below me Bowie.

Faugheen · 19-01-2021 5:53pm

jm08 wrote: »

What was deleted?

Cullinane and Boylan defending Mary Lou’s comments on the Me Too stuff.

As I said before, her comments don’t particularly bother me, but deleting on the record remarks made to journalists is shady as f*ck

jm08 · 19-01-2021 5:56pm

piplip87 wrote: »

SF Ireland Branch at every opportunity lambasting the government over special advisers....

SFUK branch in Stormount today opposing a bill thay would:

1) The Functioning of Government Bill aims to cut the number of advisers and put new rules in place.
2)The bill also provides for Spads to be the subject of processes and procedures of the disciplinary code that operates in the civil service.
3) Mr Allister's bill would also create a new criminal offence if advisers leak information or use unofficial emails to conduct government business.
4) The bill also requires that the activities and meetings of ministers and special advisers be recorded within the civil service.

Now I dont see any reason to block any part of this bill, as Special Advisors are paid from the public purse.

One would think that maybe SF dont want meeting with their special advisers recorded ? I wonder why thay could be

I don't think Sinn Fein are the only ones who have difficulty with the bill. So far there have been 81 amendments to it from all sources (its 15 pages). As for the number of SPADs. Most ministers have one each. The First Minister /Deputy First Minister have six. Ms Emma Little-Pengelly is on a nice little earner of £78,000.

Brendan Bendar · 19-01-2021 6:00pm

Hmmm lot of anger here, someone must have lifted a very slimy slate.

Usually more light gets out of a black hole than anything detrimental to SF.

jm08 · 19-01-2021 6:02pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Cullinane and Boylan defending Mary Lou’s comments on the Me Too stuff.

As I said before, her comments don’t particularly bother me, but deleting on the record remarks made to journalists is shady as f*ck

Am I reading this right? Sinn Fein removed comments where Cullinane and Boylan defended Mary Lou? And some people have a problem with this?

A press conference isn't a court of law you know.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 6:10pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

EDIT: You know what, it's really not worth my time engaging with people below me Bowie.

Below you is it sur? *doffs cap*

We were discussing why socially leaning parties might vote against new builds.
Simply saying more builds helps lower pricing isn't how it's been working out. I get the theory and if the market was left to it's own devices it would be a logical conclusion. However we have FF/FG who will encourage rental companies to build/buy and rent to the tax payer, who will meet their asking prices. So they have not, as yet, seen the need to lower pricing.

Be more honest if you engaged rather than tried to be clever.

Also, as suggested, the idea that PBP/SF/SD etc. were doing so in a hypocritical manner because they don't really want to fix the housing crisis is a nonsense quite frankly.

Faugheen · 19-01-2021 6:13pm

jm08 wrote: »

Am I reading this right? Sinn Fein removed comments where Cullinane and Boylan defended Mary Lou? And some people have a problem with this?

A press conference isn't a court of law you know.

...

No it’s not a court of law.

When some journalists can’t go to the press conference because of COVID, they rely on the parties to send unedited accounts of what was said.

SF chopped it out, and sent to journalists as if nothing was said, even though it is on the record.

This is completely dishonest. If you don’t see it, then don’t ever bitch and moan at government spin again.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 6:19pm

Faugheen wrote: »

...

No it’s not a court of law.

When some journalists can’t go to the press conference because of COVID, they rely on the parties to send unedited accounts of what was said.

SF chopped it out, and sent to journalists as if nothing was said, even though it is on the record.

This is completely dishonest. If you don’t see it, then don’t ever bitch and moan at government spin again.

Press releases are biased. This is a press officers job.
Unless SF completely told lies there is no issue here at all.
And yes, it is spin. This does not mean we can't critique it. Personally I'll take a parties stance on something with a pinch of salt but their reasoning might often be different than publicised.
This is similar to unelected SF members guiding party policy, which every single party also engages in. Common place.

No good journalist takes a press release as the full story. They'll take it as a statement from a biased source.

blanch152 · 19-01-2021 6:34pm

Bowie wrote: »

Below you is it sur? *doffs cap*

We were discussing why socially leaning parties might vote against new builds.
Simply saying more builds helps lower pricing isn't how it's been working out. I get the theory and if the market was left to it's own devices it would be a logical conclusion. However we have FF/FG who will encourage rental companies to build/buy and rent to the tax payer, who will meet their asking prices. So they have not, as yet, seen the need to lower pricing.

Be more honest if you engaged rather than tried to be clever.

Also, as suggested, the idea that PBP/SF/SD etc. were doing so in a hypocritical manner because they don't really want to fix the housing crisis is a nonsense quite frankly.

You were about to explain to us how the laws of economics don't work just because FF and FG are in government, you might finish that for our amusement.

As for PBP/I4C/SF (who mentioned SDs in this context) not wanting the housing crisis fixed at local level in case their political opponents at national level get credit, there is nothing nonsensical about it at all. It is the same sort of slimy behaviour that sees the transcripts of press conferences edited.

blanch152 · 19-01-2021 6:36pm

Faugheen wrote: »

It is absolutely not ‘commonplace’ to edit a press conference to send to journalists who couldn’t be there, whereby on-the-record remarks were made.

This wasn’t just a press conference between Cullinane, Boylan and the press officer. Members of the media were there. They heard them say it. They likely have recordings of them saying it. However, SF sent an edited version to journalists who weren’t there.

If you honestly can’t see the issue here, then any remark you make about the Tanaiste telling lies is redundant. This is completely dishonest of SF.

I don't understand the fuss over this. SF routinely lie, that is known.

Faugheen · 19-01-2021 6:38pm

Bowie wrote: »

Press releases are biased. This is a press officers job.
Unless SF completely told lies there is no issue here at all.
And yes, it is spin. This does not mean we can't critique it. Personally I'll take a parties stance on something with a pinch of salt but their reasoning might often be different than publicised.
This is similar to unelected SF members guiding party policy, which every single party also engages in. Common place.

No good journalist takes a press release as the full story. They'll take it as a statement from a biased source.

For f*ck’s sake.

This wasn’t a f*cking press release.

This was a fully fledged press conference, in front of journalists, and these statements were made on the record.

The tried to bury comments that were made on the record. That is shady as f*ck.

Jesus there’s no talking to Shinners at all. Everything is fine if they’re at it but nobody else can do it.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 6:46pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You were about to explain to us how the laws of economics don't work just because FF and FG are in government, you might finish that for our amusement.

As for PBP/I4C/SF (who mentioned SDs in this context) not wanting the housing crisis fixed at local level in case their political opponents at national level get credit, there is nothing nonsensical about it at all. It is the same sort of slimy behaviour that sees the transcripts of press conferences edited.

Some people either cannot or pretend they cannot comprehend the very basics.

Again, (x3) can you clarify;

More build to rent apartments where the tax payer subsidises the rent or pays the rent will help the housing crisis/tax payer how exactly?

Why would these private rental companies lower pricing exactly?

Ah, a made up conspiracy theory with zero facts to back it up. Sounds legit

It's not like councilors need be elected or anything...

Covid times aside, can you tell me why FF/FG persist on housing policy despite it getting year on year record breakingly worse? To fix the crises?
My conspiracy theory is that they want to make money for private concerns regardless of the cost to the tax payer. I based this on many years of private rental companies becoming enriched as the crises worsened at a loss to the tax payer.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 6:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

why are you cursing?

He seems to be frustrated and giving the benefit of the doubt, unaware all parties and private companies etc. engage in same. It is spin of course and should be questioned.

RandomViewer · 19-01-2021 6:52pm

Bowie wrote: »

Some people either cannot or pretend they cannot comprehend the very basics.

Again, (x3) can you clarify;

Ah, a made up conspiracy theory with zero facts to back it up. Sounds legit
It's not like councilors need be elected or anything...

Covid times aside, can you tell me why FF/FG persist on housing policy despite it getting year on year record breakingly worse? To fix the crises?
My conspiracy theory is that they want to make money for private concerns regardless of the cost to the tax payer. I based this on many years of private rental companies becoming enriched as the crises worsened at a loss to the tax payer.

Most FFG councillors are bought and paid for, some probably have tattoos saying property of #######

blanch152 · 19-01-2021 6:55pm

Bowie wrote: »

Some people either cannot or pretend they cannot comprehend the very basics.

Again, (x3) can you clarify;

Ah, a made up conspiracy theory with zero facts to back it up. Sounds legit
It's not like councilors need be elected or anything...

Covid times aside, can you tell me why FF/FG persist on housing policy despite it getting year on year record breakingly worse? To fix the crises?
My conspiracy theory is that they want to make money for private concerns regardless of the cost to the tax payer. I based this on many years of private rental companies becoming enriched as the crises worsened at a loss to the tax payer.

Go back over my posts, I explained it clearly in terms of the laws of economics.

Your response was that the laws of economics don't apply under FF/FG. I am still interested in a longer explanation.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 7:02pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Go back over my posts, I explained it clearly in terms of the laws of economics.

Your response was that the laws of economics don't apply under FF/FG. I am still interested in a longer explanation.

No you didn't. You claimed, "increasing supply at a rate greater than increasing demand ensures that the market price drops." What has that got to do with Councilors voting down not fit for purpose rental builds?

FF/FG interference in the market often puts the individual citizen at a disadvantage.

More build to rent apartments where the tax payer subsidises the rent or pays the rent will help the housing crisis/tax payer how exactly?

Why would these private rental companies lower pricing exactly?

If you can't or won't answer, fair enough.

blanch152 · 19-01-2021 7:11pm

Bowie wrote: »

No you didn't. You claimed, "increasing supply at a rate greater than increasing demand ensures that the market price drops." What has that got to do with Councilors voting down not fit for purpose rental builds?

.

Increasing supply at a rate greater than increasing demand ensures that the market price drops, however, if Councillors vote to restrict supply, as the SF/I4C councillors have done, the market price won't drop. That is how economics works.

Now, explain to us again, why those economic rules don't apply during periods of FF/FG governments? It is really interesting.

RandomViewer · 19-01-2021 7:23pm

Dont know how anyone on €5-600 a week could have any kind of life living in Dublin, they are pricing themselves into a position where businesses will either have to close or relocate to somewhere they can get staff,

James Brown · 19-01-2021 8:04pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Increasing supply at a rate greater than increasing demand ensures that the market price drops, however, if Councillors vote to restrict supply, as the SF/I4C councillors have done, the market price won't drop. That is how economics works.

Now, explain to us again, why those economic rules don't apply during periods of FF/FG governments? It is really interesting.

Can you show us how that has worked in Ireland thus far?
Have we had year on year worsening crises because;

a) we didn't build enough private rentals.

b) the tax payer subsidising high rents means they don't need lower them.

More build to rent apartments where the tax payer subsidises the rent or pays the rent will help the housing crisis/tax payer how exactly?

Why would these private rental companies lower pricing exactly?

I've done so repeatedly. If you attempted to answer the above questions the penny might drop for you.

If private rental companies can charge what they like, and get it, they have no reason to lower rents.

NovemberWren · 19-01-2021 8:40pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Most FFG councillors are bought and paid for, some probably have tattoos saying property of #######

This is so, unfortunately. And add SF to that. The problems, the area/s (except their very own), the people; means almost nothing to them. Many of them see the E'000 and reckon that will be just fine for four years.
Makes a person wonder would it be best to just blank out the Number of the Vote and an X over the list.

James Brown · 19-01-2021 8:54pm

NovemberWren wrote: »

This is so, unfortunately. And add SF to that. The problems, the area/s (except their very own), the people; means almost nothing to them. Many of them see the E'000 and reckon that will be just fine for four years.
Makes a person wonder would it be best to just blank out the Number of the Vote and an X over the list.

We know the 'inappropriate behaviour' of FF/FG. It's possible others might be same or worse, however we are guaranteed such with FF/FG.

Edit:
This might be why socially conscious parties are not signing off on some builds.

The State will be left with a bill of more than €15 million for the reconstruction of Priory Hall, the notorious firetrap apartment complex in north Dublin, according to new figures from Dublin City Council.

FreudianSlippers · 20-01-2021 9:22am

Bowie wrote: »

Can you show us how that has worked in Ireland thus far?
Have we had year on year worsening crises because;

a) we didn't build enough private rentals.

b) the tax payer subsidising high rents means they don't need lower them.

More build to rent apartments where the tax payer subsidises the rent or pays the rent will help the housing crisis/tax payer how exactly?

Why would these private rental companies lower pricing exactly?

I've done so repeatedly. If you attempted to answer the above questions the penny might drop for you.

If private rental companies can charge what they like, and get it, they have no reason to lower rents.

Here, knock yourself out:

https://www.tcd.ie/Economics/assets/pdf/MScEPS/Irisheconomy/Ronan%20Lyons%20-%20Chapter%20on%20Housing%20-%20Economy%20of%20Ireland.pdf

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/research-technical-papers/research-technical-paper-08rt12.pdf?sfvrsn=8

http://files.nesc.ie/nesc_background_papers/NESC_112_bg_3.pdf

https://www.esri.ie/system/files?file=media/file-uploads/2017-11/QEC2017WIN_SA_McQuinn.pdf

atticu · 20-01-2021 10:40am

[QUOTE=Bowie;11597661Quote:
The State will be left with a bill of more than €15 million for the reconstruction of Priory Hall, the notorious firetrap apartment complex in north Dublin, according to new figures from Dublin City Council.8]
Edit:
This might be why socially conscious parties are not signing off on some builds.

[/QUOTE]

Who was the developer who built Priory Hall?

markodaly · 20-01-2021 10:55am

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, yes, I know, Jimmy Saville was an innocent man, according to your philosophy.

What annoys me is that Francie only extends this basic human right to Sinn Fein and other republicans. He believes he is free to say "FG councillors caught red handed taking money for planning favours, numerous cases of planning abuses in the history of the state etc etc etc" and blacken the names of loads of people as a result.

I mean if I was to say that the IRA were responsible for the sexual abuse of Mairia Cahill and Paudie McGahon and that SF turned a blind eye to it, Francie would be first to jump up and down about courts of law etc. etc.

Those are his and your standards, and when you fail to live up to them, it is breathtaking hypocrisy. I apply different realistic standards, assessing the evidence and reaching reasonable conclusions.

Jimmy Savile is an innocent man, Gerry Adams was never in the IRA but Leo is corrupt and people working in the Irish Times are on the FG payroll.

Am I doing this right from the SF point of view?

:D

markodaly · 20-01-2021 11:00am

Are we back to the discussion where Matt goes on about building houses like its a South Park episode?

That has been done to death at this stage and no, the basic economic laws still haven't changed!!

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 11:46am

Bowie wrote: »

Can you show us how that has worked in Ireland thus far?
Have we had year on year worsening crises because;

a) we didn't build enough private rentals.

b) the tax payer subsidising high rents means they don't need lower them.

More build to rent apartments where the tax payer subsidises the rent or pays the rent will help the housing crisis/tax payer how exactly?

Why would these private rental companies lower pricing exactly?

I've done so repeatedly. If you attempted to answer the above questions the penny might drop for you.

If private rental companies can charge what they like, and get it, they have no reason to lower rents.

I can answer the first question quite simply. It hasn't worked in Ireland so far because as the statement clearly sets out you have to increase supply. Political parties such as SF and I4C who block the increases in supply prevent the resultant decrease in market rents.

It is simple economics.

It is also nefarious politicking. Block the increases in supply at local level and you can ensure that rents stay high and you can blame the government.

You can bluster all you like but you can't avoid the simple truths I have set out.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 11:46am

markodaly wrote: »

Jimmy Savile is an innocent man, Gerry Adams was never in the IRA but Leo is corrupt and people working in the Irish Times are on the FG payroll.

Am I doing this right from the SF point of view? :D

Absolutely, that is the way of the world.

blanch152 · 20-01-2021 11:48am

atticu wrote: »

Who was the developer who built Priory Hall?

He was a good republican.

RandomViewer · 20-01-2021 6:04pm

atticu wrote: »

Who was the developer who built Priory Hall?

There were lots of Priory halls , there was also a flooded hospital thanks to Celtiic tiger building practices, Hasnt the beloved Dinny not been pulled up for shoddy workmanship on the new Childrens Hospital, Cowboy building is rarely political but always greed based

mariaalice · 20-01-2021 6:19pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

There were lots of Priory halls , there was also a flooded hospital thanks to Celtiic tiger building practices, Hasnt the beloved Dinny not been pulled up for shoddy workmanship on the new Childrens Hospital, Cowboy building is rarely political but always greed based

What shoddy workmanship on the children's hospital?

Do none of ye on either side not get sick of the whataboutery, plus the social media behavior of one side in this is damaging support for them somewhat yet it still persists.

RandomViewer · 20-01-2021 6:31pm

mariaalice wrote: »

What shoddy workmanship on the children's hospital?

Do none of ye on either side not get sick of the whataboutery, plus the social media behavior of one side in this is damaging support for them somewhat yet it still persists.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/engineering-firm-denies-performance-on-childrens-hospital-was-not-up-to-standard-37834016.html

Triangle · 20-01-2021 6:31pm

I have to say I'm a bit surprised and hopefully this is the beginning of me being wrong about them!

I just read an article saying that sinn fein are backing the British army's help in dealing with covid.

A nice step to end the polarisation up North, it gives me hope it continues.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0120/1191003-northern-ireland-covid-19/

a very cool kid · 20-01-2021 6:35pm

Triangle wrote: »

I have to say I'm a bit surprised and hopefully this is the beginning of me being wrong about them!

I just read an article saying that sinn fein are backing the British army's help in dealing with covid.

A nice step to end the polarisation up North, it gives me hope it continues.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0120/1191003-northern-ireland-covid-19/

It is good to see.

I doubt it would happen in any other circumstances though.

mariaalice · 20-01-2021 6:50pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/engineering-firm-denies-performance-on-childrens-hospital-was-not-up-to-standard-37834016.html

I am not getting into this but it's not a shoddy project, the work is checked within an inch of its life as it should be.

A few posters here could give the worst intransigent unionists a run for their money and that's saying something.

mariaalice · 20-01-2021 7:04pm

SF will get their turn but what their supporters here don't seem to understand is because of this they don't have the luxury of being like Paul Murphy or Richard Boyde Barret who will never be in government they can sprouting semi-nonsense to their heart's content.

FrancieBrady · 20-01-2021 7:06pm

mariaalice wrote: »

SF will get their turn but what their supporters here don't seem to understand is because of this they don't have the luxury of being Paul Murphy or Richard Boyde Barret sprouting semi-nonsense knowing they will never be in government.

'because of' what?

jm08 · 20-01-2021 7:27pm

mariaalice wrote: »

SF will get their turn but what their supporters here don't seem to understand is because of this they don't have the luxury of being Paul Murphy or Richard Boyde Barret sprouting semi-nonsense knowing they will never be in government.

Are you trying to say that there is no difference between People Before Profit and Sinn Fein?

FrancieBrady · 20-01-2021 7:29pm

Triangle wrote: »

I have to say I'm a bit surprised and hopefully this is the beginning of me being wrong about them!

I just read an article saying that sinn fein are backing the British army's help in dealing with covid.

A nice step to end the polarisation up North, it gives me hope it continues.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0120/1191003-northern-ireland-covid-19/

No surprise, she said SF had no issue with it back last year.

RandomViewer · 20-01-2021 7:30pm

jm08 wrote: »

Are you trying to say that there is no difference between People Before Profit and Sinn Fein?

PBP are full Citizen Smith, SF would be 90s FF

mariaalice · 20-01-2021 7:35pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'because of' what?

They can't have too many hostages to fortune i.e we can solve homelessness and that is just one issue they will be savaged.

FrancieBrady · 20-01-2021 7:39pm

mariaalice wrote: »

They can't have too many hostages to fortune i.e we can solve homelessness and that is just one issue they will be savaged.

Where have they said they 'can solve homelessness'?

mariaalice · 20-01-2021 7:43pm

jm08 wrote: »

Are you trying to say that there is no difference between People Before Profit and Sinn Fein?

Richard Boyde Barret and Paul Murphy will never be in government so they can say what they like knowing they will never be challenged, SF will most likely get their turn in government, there are no guarantees though, because of that every hostage to fortune, every grandiose promise. every nonsensical pronunciation they have ever made will be pounced on.

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

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