Making a murderer (Netflix)

oscarBravo · 10-09-2019 10:37am

Kingp35 wrote: »

He'll never get out, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

It's a very bad thing. You may have a strong gut feeling that he's guilty, but the burden of proof isn't "a strong gut feeling", it's "beyond reasonable doubt".

Anyone who thinks there's no reasonable doubt about Avery's guilt hasn't been paying attention.

Mantis Toboggan · 10-09-2019 10:57am

Yeah it's rough, he's 32 years in jail now possibly for 2 crimes he didn't commit. Brendan Dassey is jail 14? years and almost certainly innocent and not a shred of evidence against him. Sad state of affairs.

In fairness the Zellner she has to try and keep people interested.

Kingp35 · 10-09-2019 10:58am

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's a very bad thing. You may have a strong gut feeling that he's guilty, but the burden of proof isn't "a strong gut feeling", it's "beyond reasonable doubt".

Anyone who thinks there's no reasonable doubt about Avery's guilt hasn't been paying attention.

Oh I agree completely. My comment was more in reference to the fact that I would be leaning towards guilty rather than innocent.

On a purely legal basis, he never should have been convicted in the first place. However due to the fact he is far from clearly innocent, I would not be so quick to jump on the free Avery bandwagon.

oscarBravo · 10-09-2019 11:06am

Kingp35 wrote: »

Oh I agree completely. My comment was more in reference to the fact that I would be leaning towards guilty rather than innocent.

On a purely legal basis, he never should have been convicted in the first place. However due to the fact he is far from clearly innocent, I would not be so quick to jump on the free Avery bandwagon.

If he's guilty, let the prosecution prove it in a fair trial rather than the clumsy frame job they're quite clearly guilty of. The only question that should determine whether or not he remains in prison is: was he safely convicted?

He wasn't. He needs to be released. Then, if the authorities are convinced that he's guilty, they can give him a fair trial and prove it.

Scotty # · 10-09-2019 12:25pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

He wasn't. He needs to be released...

...which will quite likely (eventually) bankrupt the county. Hard to find a judge willing to do that.

Mountainsandh · 10-10-2019 8:03pm

Just a heads up that Kathleen's brief to the Court of Appeal is due next week . There will be some stirring around that, although as far as I understand there is no time frame for the COA to respond, so things could take months to move if they do.

Meanwhile Laura Nirider and Drizin have petitioned Governor Tony Evers (WI) for clemency for Brendan Dassey.
The previous governors had refused to pardon prisoners, but gov Evers is starting that again. Brendan does not fit the criteria, but Nirider and Drizin are asking for deviations and an exception in his case.

Also meanwhile, Kratz is re-releasing a book of drivel, with 2 extra chapters. He has also been interacting with people on Twitter and spreading more lies about the case.

Hammer89 · 10-10-2019 9:19pm

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Also meanwhile, Kratz is re-releasing a book of drivel, with 2 extra chapters. He has also been interacting with people on Twitter and spreading more lies about the case.

Just because they were omitted from the documentary, presumably because it doesn't add to the picture of innocence they were trying to paint, it doesn't make them lies.

Mantis Toboggan · 10-10-2019 11:19pm

Ah poor old brendan dassey, not a shed of evidence against him and locked up for what 14 years now? Some waste of a life.

Mountainsandh · 10-10-2019 11:26pm

Hammer89 wrote: »

Just because they were omitted from the documentary, presumably because it doesn't add to the picture of innocence they were trying to paint, it doesn't make them lies.

Yes lies. I'm not necessarily talking about the daily platitudes he tries to argue the documentary avoided.

edit : I realize I should explain this somewhat. 3 lies below. There are many more lies by omission, or attempts to derail people interacting with him to irrelevant material, rather than answer questions.
For example : Ken argued a few days ago that Brendan's confession videos had fooled us all, because the Youtuber who put them online had cut out some segments. He posted with a link or screenshot to said videos. To assert that he pointed to time stamps. This came back to hit him in the face when the Youtuber in question (more than likely someone on his side by the way, as posting in a guilter's group) wrote an angry message explaining that the videos had been received in state (with the segments cut) from a Freedom of Information Act request, directly from LE.

He also posted that the jury had seen all of Brendan Dassey's interview. This is not true. The jury were not shown how Brendan told his Mum "they got to my head" as soon as Wiegert and Fassbender were out the door. He clammed up again the minute they came back in (swiftly, since they more than likely had some way to check from the other room what he was saying to his mother).

And a third lie for good measure : Kratz stated that BD said Avery had driven the golf cart into the quarry to dump some bones. Nowhere does Brendan say anything about the golf cart being used to dump bones in the quarry. Brendan says first that SA shoved some of the bones a few feet away from where the fire was, and buried them, at the burn pit/back of garage (this dug out bit with bones in it was never found, as far as we know). Brendan also says that his uncle told him he had scooped some in a bucket and fired them over the ditch at the end of his back garden, that is, on Radandt property, not in the quarry where all the bones were found.

Mountainsandh · 11-10-2019 11:24am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Ah poor old brendan dassey, not a shed of evidence against him and locked up for what 14 years now? Some waste of a life.

It is so sad. And Kratz still is trying to fight this case with character assassination and lies. I am in the process of checking out lab reports (I did mention on boards before I believe that I went full on with this case and I'm still obsessed with it, it's kind of a past time now...). So far I have found that the bedroom in trailer crime scene had not in fact been checked for DNA. I'm well aware it's not a "finding" as such by the way, it is something that has been plainly visible ever since the BD trial, simply another fact of the case Ken wanted to go unnoticed.
Why would he want this to go unnoticed ?
Well, his narrative is and was always that Avery had 4 days after the crime to clean up, that he forensically cleaned the place with a "Rug Doctor", and so not a single drop of blood or DNA was found in there.
He recently posted on Twitter that no DNA of Jodi's, Teresa's, or Brendan's was found in that room, and that showed how well Steven had cleaned up. It peeked my curiosity that he would mention Jodi, since her DNA sample was never collected to compare evidence to. (Another lie !)
While checking lab reports used at trial I also realized that Sheryl Culhane (hair lady) had not in fact checked swabs from that room for DNA, because none of these had any trace of blood.
As per trial transcripts, there were too many hairs collected in the vacuum and that room to check, so hair wasn't tested. In fact, there were 8 hairs lifted specifically from the bedside locker and headboard that could possibly have been tested, it could have yielded precious info since in confession BD said they cut Teresa's hair and placed it on the locker. These 8 hairs are tagged and bagged and locked away in evidence, and not sent to lab that I can see.

So yeah. No evidence to corroborate Brendan's confession, a suspicious crime scene processing protocol, and a narrative that the supposedly sterile room was due to Steven's diligent cleaning skills (you should check out newly released photographs of the place to assess how NOT cleaned it looked).

Mountainsandh · 11-10-2019 8:40pm

... aaaand the brief is practically filed (bit early). Onwards and upwards !

Mountainsandh · 18-10-2019 12:33am

Mountainsandh wrote: »

... aaaand the brief is practically filed (bit early). Onwards and upwards !

Brief available to read on KZ's website for those interested.

MonkieSocks · 18-10-2019 6:20pm

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Brief available to read on KZ's website for those interested.

Is this it

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55203379e4b08b1328203a7d/t/5da62b030e2e901684b44b43/1571171077900/Updated+Avery+Doc.pdf

Her web page is here http://www.kathleentzellner.com/

Making a murderer (Netflix)

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