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Immortality?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Why? Don't you think dementia is just another symptom of aging?

    yes.
    But due to the size, complexity, lack of regenerating cells and difficulty in operating on the brain, the technology to keep it from ageing is surely further down the line than that for the rest of the body.

    I can easily imagine a situation where we could keep regenerating a body or use mechanical organs ect, but will not be able to do much about the brain. In a scenario like this, more and more people would succumb to dementia before they die.

    This trend has already started btw. If we don't start deliberate anti-ageing research it would probably continue to the point where the majority of people succumb to dementia before they die.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    vinylmesh wrote: »
    yes.
    But due to the size, complexity, lack of regenerating cells and difficulty in operating on the brain, the technology to keep it from ageing is surely further down the line than that for the rest of the body.

    Are you assuming that aging is just a lack of ability to regenerate? For example in SENS(which is the only strategy of its type that I've seen) using stem cells(I assume this when you refer to regenerating the body) is the only one part of one of the therapies available.
    vinylmesh wrote: »
    I can easily imagine a situation where we could keep regenerating a body or use mechanical organs ect, but will not be able to do much about the brain.

    That wouldn't be anti aging therapy then it would just be regenerating certain parts. Not much good at all.
    vinylmesh wrote: »
    In a scenario like this, more and more people would succumb to dementia before they die.

    This trend has already started btw. If we don't start deliberate anti-ageing research it would probably continue to the point where the majority of people succumb to dementia before they die.

    Yes I agree but what would be the point of any anti-aging strategy unless it improved quality of life?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    vinylmesh wrote:
    I can easily imagine a situation where we could keep regenerating a body or use mechanical organs ect, but will not be able to do much about the brain.

    Apparently, it's being claimed that an artificial functioning human brain is possible within 10 years. Despite the fact that I'm not qualified to be skeptical, I am.

    Allow my imagination to run wild.

    Could this become a possible method of anti-brain-ageing? Obviously, this would be in the unforeseeable future. Even if an artificial brain is created, actually implanting one into a human would, presumably, be ever so slightly problematic. I'd imagine that there would be all manner of fiddly wires and such to be correctly alligned :rolleyes:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8164060.stm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    Apparently, it's being claimed that an artificial functioning human brain is possible within 10 years. Despite the fact that I'm not qualified to be skeptical, I am.

    They think they can mimic a human brain. I am sceptical of that. i am scpetical of the idea that they can train it - an artifical adult brain - to do anything. The brain learns as it grows.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Yes I agree but what would be the point of any anti-aging strategy unless it improved quality of life?

    Most of the time people don't think things through properly. They just follow on from what people were doing before them and add bits on that make sense up close. If they took a step back and analysed the system as a whole with all it's implications, they'd realise what's wrong with their actions.

    If we continue medical research the way it is going, without an organised anti-ageing strategy, the scenario I mentioned will imo, become a reality.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    vinylmesh wrote: »
    Most of the time people don't think things through properly. They just follow on from what people were doing before them and add bits on that make sense up close. If they took a step back and analysed the system as a whole with all it's implications, they'd realise what's wrong with their actions.

    If we continue medical research the way it is going, without an organised anti-ageing strategy, the scenario I mentioned will imo, become a reality.

    Well it kind of is a reality in a sense. People are living way longer now than provided for by evolution because of medicine hence the reason aging is such a ghastly experience for us.

    Never fear though there are those who are pushing for a strategy and I've mentioned them many times before on this thread:

    http://sens.org/


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Here's a little bit more on this with a related topic (link to EurekAlert article):

    The normal ageing process has long been linked to problems with cell respiration, the process through which the cells extract energy from nutrients. Researchers at the Swedish medical university Karolinska Institutet have now shown how certain proteins that are synthesised in the cellular mitochondria – popularly known as the cells' power plants – become unstable and disintegrate, which in turn can impair cell respiration and cause premature ageing.

    Every time we inhale, the blood transports the oxygen from our lungs to our cells' mitochondria, where it is used to convert the nutrients in our food into a form of energy that the body can use. Problems with this process, called cell respiration, have been linked to numerous conditions, from rare genetic diseases to diabetes, cancer, Parkinson's disease and the normal ageing process.

    For cell respiration to function properly, it needs proteins synthesised outside and then imported into the mitochondria, and proteins synthesised within the mitochondria themselves from their own DNA (mtDNA). It has long been known that an accumulation of harmful mutations of mtDNA can cause premature ageing, but just how this happens has remained something of a mystery.

    Scientists at Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm have now shown through studies on mice that changes in mtDNA can cause ageing by introducing errors into the proteins manufactured by the mitochondria. The amount of protein is normal, but the proteins are rendered unstable and quickly disintegrate, leading eventually to the breakdown of cell respiration.

    "Our results show that premature ageing is caused by point mutations in the mtDNA, which cause the mitochondrial proteins to become unstable and disintegrate," says Aleksandra Trifunovic, one of the scientists involved in the study.

    According to the team, the study, which is presented in the scientific journal Cell Metabolism, provides a better understanding of the interaction between mitochondrial function and the ageing process, and improves the chances of one day finding an efficacious treatment for mitochondrial disorders, something that is currently lacking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31 D0nners


    God damned telomeres


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    D0nners wrote: »
    God damned telomeres

    Don't you mean "evolution damned telomeres"? With them you probably die of cancer actually its what makes cells/tumors malignant/cancerous is there ability to express telomerase which allows for the relengthening of telomeres.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Well it kind of is a reality in a sense. People are living way longer now than provided for by evolution because of medicine hence the reason aging is such a ghastly experience for us.

    Never fear though there are those who are pushing for a strategy and I've mentioned them many times before on this thread:

    http://sens.org/

    Can you back this up?

    Eels can live 150 years
    Tortoises a few hundred
    Parrots about 70
    Most rodents about 2 years, but Guinea Pigs (not at all close to Rats though) 0ver 7.

    It would seem the "natural" limit (or evolutionary) for people is around 110 to 120. Many people live shorter or less healthy lives due to lifestyle, environment, emotional state etc. Some families have greater genetic disposition to some maladies, or shorter life or longer life.

    Ageing isn't universally Ghastly. My Grandmother wasn't too well by her 50s but was very happy and busy till her 80s. My Grandfather was reasonably active and well to over 90. My Great Uncle bob ploughed a field, drove tractor out, closed gate and died at 92.


    I'm sceptical about immortality or even a few hundred years of life even if the biological ageing issues are solved though.

    Apparently research shows couples are enjoying sex into their 80s.

    If a large number of people were living over 110 I might agree.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    watty wrote: »
    Can you back this up?

    Which part?
    watty wrote: »
    Eels can live 150 years
    Tortoises a few hundred
    Parrots about 70
    Most rodents about 2 years, but Guinea Pigs (not at all close to Rats though) 0ver 7.

    It would seem the "natural" limit (or evolutionary) for people is around 110 to 120. Many people live shorter or less healthy lives due to lifestyle, environment, emotional state etc. Some families have greater genetic disposition to some maladies, or shorter life or longer life.

    So what your saying there is a built in mechanism for death?
    watty wrote: »
    Ageing isn't universally Ghastly.

    You've got to be kidding, you don't think lose of abilities against your will is ghastly?

    watty wrote: »
    My Grandmother wasn't too well by her 50s but was very happy and busy till her 80s. My Grandfather was reasonably active and well to over 90. My Great Uncle bob ploughed a field, drove tractor out, closed gate and died at 92.

    Completely subjective experience.
    watty wrote: »
    I'm sceptical about immortality or even a few hundred years of life even if the biological ageing issues are solved though.

    And?
    watty wrote: »
    Apparently research shows couples are enjoying sex into their 80s.

    So what?
    watty wrote: »
    If a large number of people were living over 110 I might agree.

    Agree with what?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 Vgamer1


    If you guys are interested in this subject, you should come check out www.imminst.org. We discuss topics such as immortality and singularity all the time.

    Have you heard of imminst CerebralCortex?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Vgamer1 wrote: »
    If you guys are interested in this subject, you should come check out www.imminst.org. We discuss topics such as immortality and singularity all the time.

    Have you heard of imminst CerebralCortex?

    Yes definitely. If I'm not mistaken I saw an interview of Nason Schooler on the website concerning laser ablastation of lipofuscin. Very interesting indeed. Are you based in Ireland Vgamer1?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 Vgamer1


    Yes definitely. If I'm not mistaken I saw an interview of Nason Schooler on the website concerning laser ablastation of lipofuscin. Very interesting indeed. Are you based in Ireland Vgamer1?

    Yes, we've been raising money for that effort. I'm not too informed about it myself though.

    I live in Los Angeles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Vgamer1 wrote: »
    Yes, we've been raising money for that effort. I'm not too informed about it myself though.

    I live in Los Angeles.

    Oh very good. Hows it coming along? Welcome to boards.ie and virtual Ireland :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7 Vgamer1


    Oh very good. Hows it coming along? Welcome to boards.ie and virtual Ireland :pac:

    I think we raised something like $8,000 by our deadline.

    Thanks for the welcome.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 74 ✭✭acoc100


    Sorry I'm very out of my depth in this thread.

    But I was just thinking if earth and for that matter the solar system.
    Will one day be no more (millions or trillions of years from now[timeX]) which I stand to correction but I thought it was inevitable.

    Even if an organism had regenerating capabilities would life be impossible at timeX + 1 second.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The heat death of the universe? Well it also depends on what we define as an organism. If an intelligent species lasts that long they may evolve their own replacements and those replacements may be life only non biological life. "Machine intelligence" very broadly speaking. Biological machines require a lot of energy and are easily damaged. Machine intelligence would be a lot more energy efficient, more robust and could survive for a very very long time. Time would essentially have no meaning for them, only energy. Plus if you had a trillion year old intelligence they may even be able to build new universes to escape into.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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