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Anyone successful in suing Aer Lingus in Small Claims Court?

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  • 09-06-2011 2:39pm
    #1
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭


    Do AL defend actions in the small claims court does anyone know?

    Specifically where they cancelled a flight, compensation sought under EU rules and told to take a hike, they ain't paying out?

    If a small claims court action taken, do they turn up to defend them in anyones experience?


Comments

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    #2
    ElNino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ElNino


    You should submit an online complaint via the Commission for Aviation Regulation website here:

    http://www.aviationreg.ie/Complaint_Procedure/Default.508.html


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    #3
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    If you have a valid claim, then whether they defend it or not is irrelevant, you should submit it anyway. Most airlines try to fob you off when it comes to compensation, because if you drop your claim, they don't lose money.

    If your claim is valid, then what's stopping you? Go for it.


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    #4
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    You should submit an online complaint via the Commission for Aviation Regulation website here:

    Cheers. Done deal according to them no case but I'm extremely cynical about the approach they have to AL in particular (and it took forever BTW).
    If you have a valid claim, then whether they defend it or not is irrelevant, you should submit it anyway. Most airlines try to fob you off when it comes to compensation, because if you drop your claim, they don't lose money.

    If your claim is valid, then what's stopping you? Go for it
    .

    Well, I just wonder is it worth my effort to go and take them to the small claims court - HAS ANYONE SUCCEEDED? Do they defend the cases in small claims court?

    I'm told I have a case but alas the Irish aviation "regulator" has closed the case citing AL were within their rights to cancel my flight - which TBH I think is a load of.... infact from what I know the Aviation regulator in Ireland tends to push the likes of me away, and not uphold the EU regulation (EC) 261/2004 , I have this knowledge from various european sources.

    E.G. without getting too deep into the case itself, AL failed to tell us our rights under EU legislation which in itself is a breach of the regulations but yet the Irish aviation "regulator" decided that AL had not breached this regulation, so where do you go eh! even though they admitted this regulation was not upheld by Aer Lingus.....saying they'd keep a file on it and if it became a constant issue they'd pursue it. The Irish Aviation regulatory body is nothing but a joke IMO set to defend airlines and not uphold EU legislation which it is meant to do........ I'm aghast !


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    #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Cheers. Done deal according to them no case but I'm extremely cynical about the approach they have to AL in particular (and it took forever BTW).

    .

    Well, I just wonder is it worth my effort to go and take them to the small claims court - HAS ANYONE SUCCEEDED? Do they defend the cases in small claims court?

    I'm told I have a case but alas the Irish aviation "regulator" has closed the case citing AL were within their rights to cancel my flight - which TBH I think is a load of.... infact from what I know the Aviation regulator in Ireland tends to push the likes of me away, and not uphold the EU regulation (EC) 261/2004 , I have this knowledge from various european sources.

    E.G. without getting too deep into the case itself, AL failed to tell us our rights under EU legislation which in itself is a breach of the regulations but yet the Irish aviation "regulator" decided that AL had not breached this regulation, so where do you go eh! even though they admitted this regulation was not upheld by Aer Lingus.....saying they'd keep a file on it and if it became a constant issue they'd pursue it. The Irish Aviation regulatory body is nothing but a joke IMO set to defend airlines and not uphold EU legislation which it is meant to do........ I'm aghast !
    Off to court with you then, it only costs €15 and costs won't be awarded against you should you be unsuccesful. I am curious though how the regulator found Air Lingus had breached the Regulation concerning notification but were then not responsible for your care(phone call, meals, overnight accommodation etc) during any subsequent delay? Maybe you should go a bit deeper into the case?


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    #6
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Off to court with you then, it only costs €15 and costs won't be awarded against you should you be unsuccesful. I am curious though how the regulator found Air Lingus had breached the Regulation concerning notification but were then not responsible for your care(phone call, meals, overnight accommodation etc) during any subsequent delay? Maybe you should go a bit deeper into the case?

    It seems, that the regulator did not find AL had breached the regulations:
    vicwatson wrote: »
    but yet the Irish aviation "regulator" decided that AL had not breached this regulation

    There are a number of circumstances in which an airline can cancel a flight and not be liable for compensation. If the regulator has determined this was one of those circumstances then there would have been no obligation on the airline to notify passengers of entitlements since those entitlements did not apply.


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    #7
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    There are a number of circumstances in which an airline can cancel a flight and not be liable for compensation. If the regulator has determined this was one of those circumstances then there would have been no obligation on the airline to notify passengers of entitlements since those entitlements did not apply.

    Rubbish.

    The regulator only got involved once I had no dice from AL. So they cannot pre determine whether AL had just cause to cancel the flight or not. AL failed in their duty to tell us our rights under the EU Charter. They didn't tell us, there was no notification of our rights and therefore they breached the EU rules. Simple.
    It seems, that the regulator did not find AL had breached the regulations:

    The regulator did not find AL had breached the regulations but why I don't know, the regulations are quite clear (from the Irish Aviation Regulator's website), there was no sign at check-in and we were not offered our rights by Aer Lingus -

    Cancellation upon arrival at the airport.In the event of a cancellation without prior notification the Regulation provides the following:
    • The air carrier shall provide a written notice setting out the rules for assistance in line with Article 14(2) of the Regulation. In addition, a sign must be displayed at the check-in area with the following text:
    "If you are denied boarding or if your flight is cancelled or delayed for at least two hours, ask a the check-in counter or boarding gate for the text stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensation and assistance"




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    #8
    lee4892
    Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭lee4892


    Re: Small Claims part of your query

    You're best chance is calling up the small claims registrar and let them know exactly what happened. Both are very nice people and will let you know exactly if you have a valid case or not. I will advise you to always tell the truth whether in writing or over the phone. It may take a while to settle your claim but in most instances most claims are settled outside of a hearing.

    If you need help, I've had a number of successful (truthful) claims processed through the office.


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    #9
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Rubbish.

    The regulator only got involved once I had no dice from AL.
    So they cannot pre determine whether AL had just cause to cancel the flight or not.
    Not trying to be smart, but regulators don't normally get involved in breaches unless an allegation is made or they witnessed it themselves.

    Are you suggesting the regulator pre-determined the outcome and just issued a standard "dey dun nuffin wrong" response?
    vicwatson wrote: »
    AL failed in their duty to tell us our rights under the EU Charter. They didn't tell us, there was no notification of our rights and therefore they breached the EU rules. Simple.


    The regulator did not find AL had breached the regulations but why I don't know, the regulations are quite clear (from the Irish Aviation Regulator's website), there was no sign at check-in and we were not offered our rights by Aer Lingus -

    Cancellation upon arrival at the airport.In the event of a cancellation without prior notification the Regulation provides the following:
    • The air carrier shall provide a written notice setting out the rules for assistance in line with Article 14(2) of the Regulation. In addition, a sign must be displayed at the check-in area with the following text:
    "If you are denied boarding or if your flight is cancelled or delayed for at least two hours, ask a the check-in counter or boarding gate for the text stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensation and assistance"



    Perhaps they did, perhaps they didn't or perhaps they produced evidence to show they did comply, you may not be party to that evidence. I don't know either way but the regulator has to make a decision based on the evidence, or a lack of, presented.

    I appreciate your annoyance and frustration but I'm not sure what do you want to achieve by taking this further.
    What are you seeking compensation for, the cancellation itself or a breach which the regulator has ruled against? Bear in mind compensation for the cancellation is not due under certain circumstances: (link)
    3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

    All I can say is I wish you luck, the cards are really stacked against you since all the airline has to do is show the regulator (a legal authority) has ruled that no breach was found.


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    #10
    DanWall
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭DanWall


    You will probably find that the small claims court is for good purchase, a flight I would have thought is a service.


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    #11
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    DanWall wrote: »
    You will probably find that the small claims court is for good purchase, a flight I would have thought is a service.

    You probably won't, the Small Claims Court covers good and services.
    SCC
    To be eligible to use the procedure, you, the "consumer" must have bought the goods or services (or the service) for private use from someone selling them in the course of business. As a 'business' you must have bought the goods or services (or the service) for use in business from someone selling them in the course of business.

    The District Court Clerk, called the Small Claims Registrar, processes small claims.

    Where possible, the registrar will negotiate a settlement without the need for a court hearing. If the matter cannot be settled the registrar will bring your claim before the District Court.

    Type of claims dealt with
    (a) a claim for goods or services bought for private use from someone selling them in the course of a business (consumer claims)

    (b) a claim for goods or services bought for business use from someone selling them in the course of a business (business claims)

    (c) a claim for minor damage to property (but excluding personal injuries)

    (d) a claim for the non-return of a rent deposit for certain kinds of rented properties. For example, a holiday home or a room / flat in a premises where the owner also lives provided that a claim does not exceed €2,000.


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