The principles behind a watch

oriel36 · 04-01-2021 8:54pm #1

There is only one thing more exquisite than the invention of a clock/watch and those are the principles to which clocks are designed to. Why is the movement of the second, minute and hour hands to a particular pace?.

I quite understand that this forum is concerned about the value of watches and clocks, however, there is no monetary value attached to knowing why timekeeping is both linear and cyclical as a mirror of our own journey through life and that is priceless and true stature.

Just as much damage has been done by misusing information from watches and clocks as there are advantages to their emergence as engineering achievements and this is due solely to a lack of a consistent narrative which traces timekeeping through the thousands of years it has been in existence, from the neolithic monuments of Newgrange and Knowth to the first really accurate 24 hour clocks as marine chronometers.

It is unlikely that watchmakers today are concerned about the emergence of the end product from the great daily and annual cycles of the planet yet without that complete narrative, something will always be missing as timekeeping is a combination of linear and cyclical elements.

Fitz II · 04-01-2021 9:49pm

oriel36 wrote: »

There is only one thing more exquisite than the invention of a clock/watch and those are the principles to which clocks are designed to. Why is the movement of the second, minute and hour hands to a particular pace?.

I quite understand that this forum is concerned about the value of watches and clocks, however, there is no monetary value attached to knowing why timekeeping is both linear and cyclical as a mirror of our own journey through life and that is priceless and true stature.

Just as much damage has been done by misusing information from watches and clocks as there are advantages to their emergence as engineering achievements and this is due solely to a lack of a consistent narrative which traces timekeeping through the thousands of years it has been in existence, from the neolithic monuments of Newgrange and Knowth to the first really accurate 24 hour clocks as marine chronometers.

It is unlikely that watchmakers today are concerned about the emergence of the end product from the great daily and annual cycles of the planet yet without that complete narrative, something will always be missing as timekeeping is a combination of linear and cyclical elements.

I remember my first spliff too.....good times.

Clocks are a fundamental property of mass, and there were clocks in the universe as soon as things cooled enough for there to be mass, and there will be clocks until the last particle turns into photons (interestingly light does not perceive time). Time and as such clocks are are an intrinsic property of existence. Our human clocks are just a way to measure that intrinsic property. And their development is likely as inevitable as the development of mathematics. Time is not cyclical it only goes one way although the great Roger Penrise has proposed a cyclical expansion of the universe and the mathematic seem to work out (see roger penrose conformal cyclic cosmology) its a very interesting proposal but even so time seems to only move in one direction, or more accurately causality moves in only one direction.

OldRio · 05-01-2021 11:12am

Fitz II wrote: »

I remember my first spliff too.....good times.

Clocks are a fundamental property of mass, and there were clocks in the universe as soon as things cooled enough for there to be mass, and there will be clocks until the last particle turns into photons (interestingly light does not perceive time). Time and as such clocks are are an intrinsic property of existence. Our human clocks are just a way to measure that intrinsic property. And their development is likely as inevitable as the development of mathematics. Time is not cyclical it only goes one way although the great Roger Penrise has proposed a cyclical expansion of the universe and the mathematic seem to work out (see roger penrose conformal cyclic cosmology) its a very interesting proposal but even so time seems to only move in one direction, or more accurately causality moves in only one direction.

Just hold on a second, bare with me. OK found it. Just putting on the turntable 'Dark Side of the Moon' by Pink Floyd.
Do Carry on.
(Sound of fumbling around and then match striking against side of match box. Inhale, and )

Cyclingtourist · 05-01-2021 11:27am

Our solar system is one big clock. On the other hand wristwatches are just adult-toys.

oriel36 · 06-01-2021 9:15am

Fitz II wrote: »

Time and as such clocks are are an intrinsic property of existence. Our human clocks are just a way to measure that intrinsic property.

Timekeeping and clocks/watches are an intrinsic property of human observations and these observations go back to remote antiquity while timekeeping and the idea of time as an isolated property is just a Victorian mathematical notion that got out of hand.

While that part is interesting and mocked by Lewis Carroll in 'Alice in Wonderland' *, other people took it seriously and ended up with science fantasy passed off as fact in the 20th century based on a Victorian novel -

"‘Now, it is very remarkable that this is so extensively overlooked,’ continued the Time Traveller, with a slight accession of cheerfulness. ‘Really this is what is meant by the Fourth Dimension, though some people who talk about the Fourth Dimension do not know they mean it. It is only another way of looking at Time. There is no difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space "
HG Wells, The Time Machine, 1898

* https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427391-600-alices-adventures-in-algebra-wonderland-solved/

fat bloke · 07-01-2021 1:08am

Not to over simplify the cosmic ballet but night follows day follows night follows...
The watch merely divides that up into smaller bits

oriel36 · 07-01-2021 4:14pm

fat bloke wrote: »

Not to over simplify the cosmic ballet but night follows day follows night follows...
The watch merely divides that up into smaller bits

There is a little bit of a spiv vibe to this forum so that doesn't make for a good conversation which links the pace of a clock/watch second, minute and hour to the parent observations which make timepieces possible.

I am not trying to sell anything because this type of perception can't be bought or sold even though pricier watches are sold on the basis of talent, wealth or being good at some sport. The underlying principles are as delicate and intricate as the components of a watch itself but such skill to identify the milestones in the development of timepieces requires a sharp and perceptive mind.

Should I want recommendations for a watch I will come to this forum, however, if anyone wants to know why the pace of a clock hour, minute and the second hand is the way it is, people should ask me as the story is as exquisite as the meshing components of a watch.

Fitz II · 07-01-2021 4:25pm

Cool....great chat

artanevilla · 07-01-2021 4:26pm

Time is a flat circle.

Fitz II · 07-01-2021 4:35pm

artanevilla wrote: »

Time is a flat circle.

Minkowski mathematics would suggest spacetime is flat, positively curved (hyperbolic de Sitter spacetime) or negatively curved (anti de Sitter spacetime) they all work, although the mathematics get very complex for anything but flat spacetime. It depends on how many dimensions there are. Defiantly not a circle. Its infantile to assume time has anything to do with the celestial bodies in our local group, but they are there to measure periodic motion, and sparked interest and questions in more primitive humans (like the OP) that started the horological revolution . But us spivs here only know about the price of a Wolex.

Wibbs · 07-01-2021 5:26pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Wolex.

Damned close to a ban for promoting fakes.

oriel36 · 07-01-2021 6:09pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Minkowski mathematics would suggest spacetime is flat, positively curved (hyperbolic de Sitter spacetime) or negatively curved (anti de Sitter spacetime) they all work, although the mathematics get very complex for anything but flat spacetime. It depends on how many dimensions there are. Defiantly not a circle. Its infantile to assume time has anything to do with the celestial bodies in our local group, but they are there to measure periodic motion, and sparked interest and questions in more primitive humans (like the OP) that started the horological revolution . But us spivs here only know about the price of a Wolex.

Nothing like a blast of Victorian voodoo in the afternoon but then again, a spiv knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Spacetime isn't a 20th-century 'relativity' concept, it is a 19th-century science fantasy novel concept -

" ‘Now, it is very remarkable that this is so extensively overlooked,’ continued the Time Traveller, with a slight accession of cheerfulness. ‘Really this is what is meant by the Fourth Dimension, though some people who talk about the Fourth Dimension do not know they mean it. It is only another way of looking at Time. There is no difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space"
HG Wells , the Time Machine, 1898

https://www.bartleby.com/1000/1.html

Wearing a wolex might tell you how financially successful you are, even the American businessman in the White House owns a few, but it is putting lipstick on a pig ( no offence to a pig) when it comes to knowing the principles which make clocks/watches possible.

You are learning all the same despite monkeying around imitating Victorian mathematicians.

Fitz II · 07-01-2021 7:01pm

oriel36 wrote: »

Nothing like a blast of Victorian voodoo in the afternoon but then again, a spiv knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Spacetime isn't a 20th-century 'relativity' concept, it is a 19th-century science fantasy novel concept -

" ‘Now, it is very remarkable that this is so extensively overlooked,’ continued the Time Traveller, with a slight accession of cheerfulness. ‘Really this is what is meant by the Fourth Dimension, though some people who talk about the Fourth Dimension do not know they mean it. It is only another way of looking at Time. There is no difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space"
HG Wells , the Time Machine, 1898

https://www.bartleby.com/1000/1.html

Wearing a wolex might tell you how financially successful you are, even the American businessman in the White House owns a few, but it is putting lipstick on a pig ( no offence to a pig) when it comes to knowing the principles which make clocks/watches possible.

You are learning all the same despite monkeying around imitating Victorian mathematicians.

I also am well versed in the history and principles of Horology both modern and historic, along with a few other topics, as are most on the forum. I would wager a lot of us know a damn sight more than you think you know, about a great many things. You would do well to not assume your audience here, stop acting like a patronising pseudo intellectual buffoon. Why would you assume those with the means to buy a watch, are somehow rendered ignorant to its workings by fact of its ownership. Also know when you are being trolled.

Telll me friend , how do you get banned from the weather forum?

oriel36 · 07-01-2021 7:06pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Wibbs will you lock this crap up.

Of course he will, wouldn't want you to get desperate over a basic principle - what determines the pace of the hour, minutes and second hands as they sweep across the face of a watch ?.

Don't worry, even the people at Wolex don't know these principles.

Wibbs · 07-01-2021 7:15pm

Annnnnd..... we're done. oriel36 don't open another one of your obsessive one trick pony threads in the forum. You're running out of forums at this stage.

The principles behind a watch

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