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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Another thing to note (slightly off topic but relevant to the proposed N2 rerouting) - I assume the plan for Heuston is to make Frank Sherwin Bridge 2-way for buses?
    It looks like this is the case going by the network map, but I didn't see any mention of it in the Bus Connects reports.
    Otherwise buses would be required to go down the quays to the Rory O'Morre Bridge which adds unneccesary travel time.

    I would imagine that buses will be able to use Seán Heuston Bridge, considering that they will be using Steveen's Lane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The point is it's a major destination and the Park is pretty central but under the proposals there's no direct service to the city centre. Taking the O to Connolly is a bit round the houses to be fair. I'm not saying the N2 extension is a bad idea just that there should also be a direct radial service going through the very centre of the park, the 37 and 80 just clip the edges.

    Ah come on, you're stretching things a bit.

    Firstly, Amiens Street and Connolly Station are in the city centre.

    If we were to follow your train of thought, no one would use the Western Suburban railway line from Connolly.

    Yet plenty of people do manage to walk to Connolly every day from O'Connell Street, instead of taking the bus. Like everything, people will get used to the changes.

    I don't think that the O is going to be that much longer in terms of journey time from Butt Bridge to Phoenix Park than the existing 46A does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    p_haugh wrote: »
    I took it that report is assuming that the N2 will begin operations as planned this year, however they suggest that an interim bus route between Broombridge and Heuston will be provided if the implementation of Bus Connects routes gets delayed any further.

    They’ll need physical changes at Cabra gates to support the N2 routing through the park. Also the bus route wouldn’t be a good idea without the pedestrian crossing additions they have planned for the park.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    If we were to follow your train of thought, no one would use the Western Suburban railway line from

    That's my point though, it's not a western suburb, it's a central area, well partially anyway. People will tolerate changing for long journeys, not for short ones.

    I take your point that the Eastern part of the O route is quite central, if you're anywhere west of O'Connell bridge though you're not going to Connolly for the O bus. And even from Connolly the O isn't too direct, you'd probably still luas to Houston and take the N2, especially when you factor in that the O doesn't go into the park walls.

    Again I think the N2 extension is a good idea but a route straight down chesterfield and down the quays should also be available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    That's my point though, it's not a western suburb, it's a central area, well partially anyway. People will tolerate changing for long journeys, not for short ones.

    I take your point that the Eastern part of the O route is quite central, if you're anywhere west of O'Connell bridge though you're not going to Connolly for the O bus. And even from Connolly the O isn't too direct, you'd probably still luas to Houston and take the N2, especially when you factor in that the O doesn't go into the park walls.

    Again I think the N2 extension is a good idea but a route straight down chesterfield and down the quays should also be available.

    It is Heuston!! Not Houston.

    Not that again please!! ;-)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    It is Heuston!! Not Houston.

    Not that again please!! ;-)

    I got autocorrected :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0115/1190086-dame-st-plan/

    Well done to those at IrishCycle.com.

    Hopefully some decent people friendly space comes about.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know this isn't exactly a great fit for this thread, but it's as close as i can find quickly, lest anyone be interested; 'a focus on transport in particular':

    https://twitter.com/DublinInquirer/status/1350419961848754176


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    From the Irish Times, I've bolded the car access reference. Great to see attitudes changing at the highest levels and acknowledgement that the status quo is no longer tenable
    Days of three-bed semis in Dublin ‘are over’ as high-density housing plans take hold

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/days-of-three-bed-semis-in-dublin-are-over-as-high-density-housing-plans-take-hold-1.4460746?mode=amp

    The days of the three-bed semi-detached house “are over” in Dublin, the city council’s most senior planner has said, as work gets under way on plans for new high-density neighbourhoods across the capital.

    Plans for at least four new “urban villages” will be devised under the new Dublin City Development Plan 2022-2028 to help house an expected increase in population of up to 70,000.

    Dublin city planner John O’Hara said most homes in the new neighbourhoods would be apartments. “The days of the three-bed semi are over,” he said.

    The city needed to maximise the potential of land within the M50 to deliver some 30,000 additional homes over the period of the plan, Mr O’Hara said. This would involve building on infill sites, but would also require the development of strategies for large industrial estates including the Dublin Industrial Estate near Glasnevin cemetery; Jamestown Business Park in Finglas; the Malahide Road Industrial Park in Coolock; and, to the southwest of the city, industrial lands around Kylemore Road, Park West Road and the Inchicore railway.

    The plan would also guide the development of the Glass Bottle Company site in Poolbeg, and other large land banks at the Naas Road, Ballymun and Cherry Orchard.

    While there had during the recession been a push back to building two-storey housing, Mr O’Hara said, the urgency of dealing with climate change meant that was no longer sustainable.

    “The corollary of that is to contain urban sprawl with higher-density development,” he said. “That does not mean forcing employment out of industrial areas. Our policy, right through the development plan, is for mixed use, based on the 15-minute neighbourhood principle, where your work, and everything you need for quality of life, is within a 15-minute walk or cycle.”


    Major changes are also expected for the city centre, Mr O’Hara said. “Cars will not be used as a means of commuting – that will be a major priority.”

    While the council does not plan to ban cars, measures will be taken to ensure cycling, walking and public transport are the more attractive commuting options, he said.


    Retail will no longer hold the same place in the post-pandemic city, he added.

    “We need to consider what is the future of the city post-Covid. Retail, although there will be some bounce back, will never return to the position it had. But we have to retain the vitality of the city streets, and that might mean a greater focus on culture, on eating out, and on more residential use in the city centre.”

    The development plan would also consider whether there was an “overprovision” of hotels and student accommodation in certain parts of the city, he said.

    “We have to look at the loss of cultural capital and where we can provide those spaces indoors or outdoors. We also need to consider whether the hospitality industry might have a contribution to make to that cultural offering, maybe allocating part of a hotel to a jazz club.”

    The council is holding online public information meetings on the development plan on January 25th and 26th. A “strategic issues paper” is available at dublincitydevelopmentplan.ieand the closing date for submissions is February 22nd.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    They're saying the right things, anyway, but they need to get a move on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Great to see but if the average income cannot afford new high density housing is there a point? the result will be like the present set up in the docklands, fancy new buildings with 20% occupancy and the funds that own them can afford to wait decades without dropping asking rents. people will still have to travel from Longford.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,863 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I keep saying it elsewhere, but I think future generations will come to see cars as a pig-ignorant menace, similar to how we think about the prevalence of smoking in the early 20th century.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I keep saying it elsewhere, but I think future generations will come to see cars as a pig-ignorant menace, similar to how we think about the prevalence of smoking in the early 20th century.

    Who would have predicted a hundred years ago that nearly every adult would have access to a motorcar with the freedom to go anywhere at anytime. Who would have projected a few decades ago that nearly everyone, including children, would have a powerful computer in their pocket that allowed connection to most parts of the world instantaneously, and at low or zero cost.

    The motorcar replaced the pony and trap and the ass and cart. The motorcar will evolve or be replaced with something else which will be better suited - perhaps frequent buses or metros, or cars hired by the hour - or some form of transport yet to find favour.

    Meanwhile we need to deal with the proliferation and ubiquity of the motorcar. For it is the huge number that is the problem, and the pig-ignorance of many of the drivers.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    96% in favour of option 4 (pedestrianisation all the way up to George's Street). Not bad.

    https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1351911395420491776?s=20


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    What DCC does with this information is another thing, <snip>


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this is some transformation (i'd be too young to remember this)

    https://twitter.com/libertiesdublin/status/1353092431798022145


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Saw this shared on twitter a while back - the widening of Clonbrassil Street was done as part of this! Glad these plans got scrapped in the end (although as mentioned in the article, some elements of it managed to get built).

    https://randall.ie/unfinished-dublin/


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://twitter.com/LkCycleDesign/status/1353774461435129857

    there's already one car park at the civic centre (as mentioned) with 45 spaces, and spaces for at least that again around the town, in other smaller car parks.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    The state is spending €100,000 so some guy can build a car park opposite is shop. This is ridiculous regardless of what fund the money is coming from. The fact it is coming from a fund designed to rejuvenate town centres is even worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Nothing says Town and Village Renewal like paying the local Spar owner to flatten part of the village.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,863 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Interesting - hadn't heard of this before...

    https://twitter.com/berkie1/status/1332410185881694208


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Interesting - hadn't heard of this before...

    https://twitter.com/berkie1/status/1332410185881694208
    I suppose it makes sense when you think about it.
    Try having a conversation with "the man in the street" if the traffic is so heavy that you can't hear each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk



    This is so true, yet so many people still think taking cars from places will rip the life out of the area. I don't know how many times I've seen "straw that breaks the camels back by DCC" when bike lanes or car restrictions are being discussed on twitter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    That supports my theory that the reason kids don't play in the street "like they used to" is because of the increased number of cars in the country. Not some other nefarious, hypothetical threat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    This is so true, yet so many people still think taking cars from places will rip the life out of the area. I don't know how many times I've seen "straw that breaks the camels back by DCC" when bike lanes or car restrictions are being discussed on twitter.

    Just link them to the Grafton pedestrianisation report that showed sales increased by 50% in the area during those weeks. It's an infallible argument :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    With 94% of people supporting complete ban on car access through such a crucial arterial junction, it really goes to show how loud a tiny minority car lobby have been all along. After Dame Street is pedestrianised everyone will come to realise fully what we have been missing out on because of cars..days are numbered for the car in central Dublin, dominoes will start to fall


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    wakka12 wrote: »
    With 94% of people supporting complete ban on car access through such a crucial arterial junction, it really goes to show how loud a tiny minority car lobby have been all along. After Dame Street is pedestrianised everyone will come to realise fully what we have been missing out on because of cars..days are numbered for the car in central Dublin, dominoes will start to fall

    To be fair the principal reason for rejecting the original College Green proposals was not really car related, but was down to the unrealistic proposals that DCC made with regard to re-routing the bus routes, with too many routes diverted onto the Quays, and also involving an excessive dogleg diversion for major cross-city routes that use Georges Street.

    This has now been corrected through the revised BusConnects network proposal which now have far more sensible alternative routings included and which minimise the impact on bus journey times.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    To be fair the principal reason for rejecting the original College Green proposals was not really car related, but was down to the unrealistic proposals that DCC made with regard to re-routing the bus routes, with too many routes diverted onto the Quays, and also involving an excessive dogleg diversion for major cross-city routes that use Georges Street.

    This has now been corrected through the revised BusConnects network proposal which now have far more sensible alternative routings included and which minimise the impact on bus journey times.

    Fingers crossed that DCCC go ahead with it. It could be just stored on the shelf next to the liffey cycle route.


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