Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Guy:Incognito · 29-03-2018 6:08pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Amazing, a man might actually have a heart, and be upset about women getting raped!

How amazing in this day and age.

The woman in question wasn't raped tho.

Appledreams15 · 29-03-2018 6:09pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

What do you actually want here? A trial was had. Justice was served.

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward.

I have to say lads, you're doing an awful lot to live up to your current reputation as Irish men as 'sexist, cruel and nasty'. If you want to keep in that vein so be it. I have been talking to men abroad on whatsapl, ive travelled a fair bit, and they were all incredibly supportive. So I think I will go and talk to the supportive people and the Irish women who actually want change. Ye need to take a hardlook at how you're acting, and how you are now looking on a global stage.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 29-03-2018 6:10pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Amazing, a man might actually have a heart, and be upset about women getting raped!

How amazing in this day and age.

There's a convicted rapist playing for Waterford Utd at the moment. Go and protest them to highlight your issue.

The Ulster boys were found not guilty after a 9 week trial. Why use them as an example?

Guy:Incognito · 29-03-2018 6:10pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

But silence and not smiling during sex equals, almost always (in the absence of violence), no rape; correct?

Does the man have to continuously confirm consent all through every sexuall encounter and if he doesn't should women stop?

podmu80 · 29-03-2018 6:10pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Of course I'm proud.
I am incredibly proud.
I think of all the women I have talked to, crying about their sexual assault, and I think of this day.
I think of the woman I met today, who cried and said 'it happened to me 20 years ago, I should be over it by now'. And I am proud.
The protest is in solidarity with the victim in N.I , it is ALSO about women being failed in rape cases in the REPUBLiC. Will you look up what people are bloody protesting about, before assuming and commenting.

Now a miracle on here would be a man actually saying hey thousands of wlmen are saying they are suffering, maybe I will be man enough to say that women are suffering in the country that I live in. Maybe we can change that going forward

Victim of what?

hynesie08 · 29-03-2018 6:11pm

So would anybody who was at a meeting today like to tell us what they proposed as an alternative to the current justice system? Because surely they had one?

Mokuba · 29-03-2018 6:11pm

Women are suffering.

Jesus Christ.

This generation of women is the most privileged generation in the history of time, and have have not only found equality with men, but have surpassed men. Why don't you go to Saudi Arabia where there is real suffering going on?

Christ.

Deluded. Anyone in those parades should be avoided.

podmu80 · 29-03-2018 6:12pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There's a convicted rapist playing for Waterford Utd at the moment. Go and protest them to highlight your issue.

The Ulster boys were found not guilty after a 9 week trial. Why use them as an example?

Black and Muslim. Free pass. Nothing to see here. Move along.

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:12pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Of course I'm proud.
I am incredibly proud.
I think of all the women I have talked to, crying about their sexual assault, and I think of this day.
I think of the woman I met today, who cried and said 'it happened to me 20 years ago, I should be over it by now'. And I am proud.
The protest is in solidarity with the victim in N.I , it is ALSO about women being failed in rape cases in the REPUBLiC. Will you look up what people are bloody protesting about, before assuming and commenting.

Now a miracle on here would be a man actually saying hey thousands of wlmen are saying they are suffering, maybe I will be man enough to say that women are suffering in the country that I live in. Maybe we can change that going forward

You must want the women who found them not guilty converted to men?

Guy:Incognito · 29-03-2018 6:12pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward.

I have to say lads, you're doing an awful lot to live up to your current reputation as Irish men as 'sexist, cruel and nasty'. If you want to keep in that vein so be it. I have been talking to men abroad on whatsapl, ive travelled a fair bit, and they were all incredibly supportive. So I think I will go and talk to the supportive people and the Irish women who actually want change. Ye need to take a hardlook at how you're acting, and how you are now looking on a global stage.

It is about this case though. This is happening because people aren't happy that they weren't convicted. The whole ibelieveher stuff.

The soundbites on the radio, including a woman that said "the rapists were found not guilty, not innocent". How the **** can a radio station broadcast that? If it were the other way around people would be going nuts.

This is mob rule, nothing more.

deirdremf · 29-03-2018 6:12pm

Inmyownworld wrote: »

Not guilty doesn't equate to innocent.

In law it does - because you are innocent until proven guilty.
They were found not to be guilty, therefore in law they are innocent.

policy75 · 29-03-2018 6:12pm

What i do wonder about all this is if these guys will be allowed to go back to their occupations. My feeling is that have not been found guilty so they should resume their professional careers. That said i am sure that there is probably a stipulation in their contracts that they uphold the values of their employer and i doubt their employer would wish to be seen condoning such behaviour by allowing them to simply pick up where they left off

SleetAndSnow · 29-03-2018 6:13pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward.

I have to say lads, you're doing an awful lot to live up to your current reputation as Irish men as 'sexist, cruel and nasty'. If you want to keep in that vein so be it. I have been talking to men abroad on whatsapl, ive travelled a fair bit, and they were all incredibly supportive. So I think I will go and talk to the supportive people and the Irish women who actually want change. Ye need to take a hardlook at how you're acting, and how you are now looking on a global stage.

You keep saying 'women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland' , yet less women are sent to prison then men for the same crimes, women generally get lesser sentences then men for the same crimes, women have more rights in courts when it comes to the children in courts and general family matters, women have a higher chance of getting their assaulter/rapist convicted in a court then a man. Its a two way street, so if you want more equality for women in courts the same has to be given to men.

I can't see where we are being 'sexist, cruel and nasty' while we are just saying that a jury, which was agreed to by the womans team, gave a verdict reached in about 4 hours and was unanimous in their decision?

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:13pm

RuMan wrote: »

I assumed poster was taking the piss?!

She spent this morning saying Ireland is the same as India.

hynesie08 · 29-03-2018 6:13pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward

How??

ShowMeTheCash · 29-03-2018 6:13pm

irishrebe wrote: »

Never claimed to be a barrister. I said I had a law degree, and I work as a legal translator. I'd say that means I have a better grasp of law than your average person. Didn't claim anything more.

I never claimed you did, I am making the point that having a law degree does not mean a whole lot it is vague at best and could mean a few different things, as to what the average person knows or does not know with regards the law I do not know that either but I am struggling to see anything of merit in some of your arguments.

cloudatlas · 29-03-2018 6:14pm

Mokuba wrote: »

Women are suffering.

Jesus Christ.

This generation of women is the most privileged generation in the history of time, and have have not only found equality with men, but have surpassed men. Why don't you go to Saudi Arabia where there is real suffering going on?

Christ.

Deluded. Anyone in those parades should be avoided.

whataboutery, look over there at those issues not here look over at Saudi Arabia! Women do not dominate men in this country I have seen nothing that backs that up at all it's all redpill rubbish.

Guy:Incognito · 29-03-2018 6:16pm

policy75 wrote: »

What i do wonder about all this is if these guys will be allowed to go back to their occupations. My feeling is that have not been found guilty so they should resume their professional careers. That said i am sure that there is probably a stipulation in their contracts that they uphold the values of their employer and i doubt their employer would wish to be seen condoning such behaviour by allowing them to simply pick up where they left off

I'd say not raping people is perfectly in line with what any employer would want.

Mokuba · 29-03-2018 6:16pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

whataboutery, look over there at those issues not here look over at Saudi Arabia! Women do not dominate men in this country I have seen nothing that backs that up at all it's all redpill rubbish.

What are the issues here then?

Explain to me how hard women have it, in modern Ireland, using real facts and statistics.

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:17pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

Anti legal system way of handing rape cases and solidarity with abuse victims across the board I would have thought. You'd think after hours would have no problem with civic disobedience but when there is a march like this it's always anti-men and it is always homogonised into one in their heads because any kind of real sort of engagement with the issues is too much so 'Anti man' yeah that's it now don't think about it anymore as it's too difficult for the auld brain to wrap around... Anti man mantra will do.

Not anti man in the slightest

cloudatlas · 29-03-2018 6:18pm

deirdremf wrote: »

In law it does - because you are innocent until proven guilty.
They were found not to be guilty, therefore in law they are innocent.

Someone tried to prove their guilt and failed. It is not the same as proving innocence.

drugstore cowboy · 29-03-2018 6:18pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

The protest is in solidarity with the victim in N.I

Victim? of what?

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:18pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

Someone tried to prove their guilt and failed. It is not the same as proving innocence.

They are innocent.

Ireland (wrongly I guess) believes in innocent until proven guilty.

cloudatlas · 29-03-2018 6:19pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Not anti man in the slightest

Well that lone twitter post just proves it, thank you, now everything is clear, it was a big nazi man hating rally after all, yes that's what it was that's easy to digest for my tiny brain so I'll go with that!

Mokuba · 29-03-2018 6:20pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

Someone tried to prove their guilt and failed. It is not the same as proving innocence.

You don't have to prove innocence. That isn't the way the law works.

People are assumed innocent until they are found to be guilty of a crime.

They weren't guilty of a crime. Therefore they are innocent. Its very, very simple.

Cushie Butterfield · 29-03-2018 6:20pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Amazing, a man might actually have a heart, and be upset about women getting raped!

How amazing in this day and age.

This thread isn’t about you personally, even if the trial has upset you.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-03-2018 6:21pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Not anti man in the slightest

The ****ing nonsense there.

Were all 4 men on trial for rape?

No.

Can't even get that basic fact right....

ShowMeTheCash · 29-03-2018 6:22pm

irishrebe wrote: »

Already gave examples of women's rights when it comes to contraception and abortion and rape crisis services.

Examples of what?
What have you given an example of?

Prospectors · 29-03-2018 6:24pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

Someone tried to prove their guilt and failed. It is not the same as proving innocence.

Exactly. They are presumed innocent as much as you or I am presumed innocent. Innocence doesn't need to be proven, it is presumed unless proven otherwise.

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:24pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The ****ing nonsense there.

Were all 4 men on trial for rape?

No.

Can't even get that basic fact right....

Credit where its due. She said innocent men at least.

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:25pm

Prospectors wrote: »

Exactly. They are presumed innocent as much as you or I am presumed innocent. Innocence doesn't need to be proven, it is presumed unless proven otherwise.

This is what the protesters want changed I guess.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-03-2018 6:27pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Credit where its due. She said innocent men at least.

People like her are going to cost the Repeal movement the Referendum.

facehugger99 · 29-03-2018 6:34pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

People like her are going to cost the Repeal movement the Referendum.

Think there's a bit too much attention being paid to one stupid twitter post - it's not like twitter is short of stupid.

cloudatlas · 29-03-2018 6:34pm

Mokuba wrote: »

What are the issues here then?

Explain to me how hard women have it, in modern Ireland, using real facts and statistics.

You suggested women surpass men which is a common redpiller assumption, I said they don't now you want me to get drawn into a debate in a thread about a rape trial on how hard women have it. The don't dominate men in our society.

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:35pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

You suggested women surpass men which is a common redpiller assumption, I said they don't now you want me to get drawn into a debate in a thread about a rape trial on how hard women have it. The don't dominate men in our society.

Whats this redpiller you love talking about? I dont think its to do with this thread unless you are claiming pills were used?

Assetbacked · 29-03-2018 6:36pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does the man have to continuously confirm consent all through every sexuall encounter and if he doesn't should women stop?

Well, it would seem that way from the other poster. She made a point about being silent as equating to not consenting despite there being no violence or threat of violence. Bar very limited exceptions (for example, repeated rape), I fail to see how this can be said.

Surely, not expressing a desire to get out of the situation or physically resisting in the normal course of a sexual encounter is almost always indicative of consenting? To state otherwise would be to put across a general view of women as pathetic and weak, incapable of standing up for themselves.

ShowMeTheCash · 29-03-2018 6:38pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward.

I have to say lads, you're doing an awful lot to live up to your current reputation as Irish men as 'sexist, cruel and nasty'. If you want to keep in that vein so be it. I have been talking to men abroad on whatsapl, ive travelled a fair bit, and they were all incredibly supportive. So I think I will go and talk to the supportive people and the Irish women who actually want change. Ye need to take a hardlook at how you're acting, and how you are now looking on a global stage.

You have talk to guys on whatsapp?
There we have it then! Close the thread!

What is it you want to change?
Before you make another broad statement in your best words tell me what in the current constitution would you change?
I would really love to hear it.

Mokuba · 29-03-2018 6:38pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

You suggested women surpass men which is a common redpiller assumption, I said they don't now you want me to get drawn into a debate in a thread about a rape trial on how hard women have it. The don't dominate men in our society.

If you're not part of one toxic hate group (3rd Wave Feminism), well you must be part of another! (Red Pill)

tritium · 29-03-2018 6:42pm

Honestly this whole case makes me a bit sad. The protest stuff is pathetic though

It’s possible to believe both versions of events in a case like this, it’s possible that everyone is telling their truth. For my view I think the verdict was correct. I don’t think it should impact on the players future but it inevitably will.

I used to think consent classes were nonsense. Cases like this make me realize they’re a good idea, if free from dogma, for both genders. Part of those classes has to be how to clearly both say and understand ‘Yes’ and ‘No’. Not the unhelpful **** that some interested parties have been spouting post verdict, not the tripe about clear body language and signals that gets floated about.how to be unambiguous in your communication, both asking and responding

The folks who organized the marches should be ashamed of themselves though, using this for political capital and keeping their profile up

cloudatlas · 29-03-2018 6:42pm

Mokuba wrote: »

If you're not part of one toxic hate group (3rd Wave Feminism), well you must be part of another! (Red Pill)

There are comments that are akin to the Red pill ethos in this thread and indeed in after hours, sure not long ago 'blast her with piss' was a stock reply in after hours until the mods clamped down, fairly nasty stuff.

Mokuba · 29-03-2018 6:44pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

There are comments that are akin to the Red pill ethos in this thread and indeed in after hours, sure not long ago 'blast her with piss' was a stock reply in after hours until the mods clamped down, fairly nasty stuff.

And your own comments where you generalised Irish men as "sexist, cruel and nasty" - I take it they are A-Ok?

RuMan · 29-03-2018 6:44pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward.

I have to say lads, you're doing an awful lot to live up to your current reputation as Irish men as 'sexist, cruel and nasty'. If you want to keep in that vein so be it. I have been talking to men abroad on whatsapl, ive travelled a fair bit, and they were all incredibly supportive. So I think I will go and talk to the supportive people and the Irish women who actually want change. Ye need to take a hardlook at how you're acting, and how you are now looking on a global stage.

British men u mean?

Can you provide examples of woman being failed in Irish courts and what legislation you want changed whether here or in Britain.

Is it just Ireland and the UK?

cloudatlas · 29-03-2018 6:50pm

Mokuba wrote: »

And your own comments where you generalised Irish men as "sexist, cruel and nasty" - I take it they are A-Ok?

You are falsely attributing a quote of another poster to me. I did not say that.

pjohnson · 29-03-2018 6:51pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

You are falsely attributing a quote of another poster to me. I did not say that.

You deny the men are innocent though as it wasn't "proved"

Silentcorner · 29-03-2018 6:54pm

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Havent I just said two posts ago? It is not about this particular case. It is about the wider issue of women being failed in the court systems in the rep and n.ireland. That can be changed going forward.

I have to say lads, you're doing an awful lot to live up to your current reputation as Irish men as 'sexist, cruel and nasty'. If you want to keep in that vein so be it. I have been talking to men abroad on whatsapl, ive travelled a fair bit, and they were all incredibly supportive. So I think I will go and talk to the supportive people and the Irish women who actually want change. Ye need to take a hardlook at how you're acting, and how you are now looking on a global stage.

I have to say, that in my experience here in Limerick anyway, the men I spoke to yesterday about this were all as gob smacked over this verdict as each other...

This is not a gender divide....at least it is not as big as you might think it is...

Nobody won yesterday....absolutely nobody....

The system with which we treat sexual violence needs to be overhauled it is clearly not fit for purpose...

This case will not put off women who falsely report rape...if anything it could increase it...women who falsely accuse someone of rape are not stable individuals....

This will put off a lot of very distressed victims of sexual assault from seeking justice....

Consent classes need to be introduced to the education system, I found the whole experience of the last two months depressing....how victims react to rape attacks need to be understood also...

If young men, speak about women in the way those men did...then we are failing our young men...that attitude plus the physical difference between young men and women plus a shedload of alcohol is a very dangerous cocktail...

Mokuba · 29-03-2018 6:54pm

cloudatlas wrote: »

You are falsely attributing a quote of another poster to me. I did not say that.

Apologies.

khaldrogo · 29-03-2018 6:54pm

retro:electro wrote:

.........Okay, so they may not have raped her. But they showed her absolutely no regard and spoke about her as if she was a piece of meat.

Every Sunday morning there are lads What's App groups all over the world saying similar stuff to each other that these lads said. Is it right? No. Is it a reason to find someone guilty of rape? No.

NIMAN · 29-03-2018 6:54pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The ****ing nonsense there.

Were all 4 men on trial for rape?

No.

Can't even get that basic fact right....

She's obviously one of the brain dead people who live in social media land these days.

The kind you find posting on subjects they haven't a baldies about.

GreeBo · 29-03-2018 7:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm saying that IMHO not being proved guilty is the same thing as being innocent.

That seems clear enough.

I haven't seen anyone disagree with that point...hence my confusion about what/who it is you are actually arguing about/with.

NIMAN · 29-03-2018 7:01pm

@appledreams

These men you talk to around the world, who are so much better than Irish men when it comes to respecting women, I take it none were from the countries where they gang rape bus passengers? Or kidnap tourists, rape and murder them?

Where does Ireland stand in the world table for percentage of rape convictions per capita? I'd say it's well down the list.

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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