Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
18-07-2019, 20:03   #16
davindub
Registered User
 
davindub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claw Hammer View Post
"Relevant sums" certainly includes rent. Rent is not similar to meals claim your laundry. On that basis heat and light certainly come into the mix since they are supplied in connection with the letting.
It most certainly does include rent, rent has it's own words attached to it

"means all sums arising in respect of the use for the purposes of residential accommodation"

It then lists laundry, etc, and other similar services.
davindub is offline  
Advertisement
18-07-2019, 20:20   #17
1874
Registered User
 
1874's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
Anyone doing Rent a room should definitely confirm with Revenue, they have a helpdesk and are helpful enough. It would equally be expensive not to collect bills due to being at the limit with rent only.

What most people are ignoring is the phrase "similar goods and services" in the legislation. If light heat is considered similar to "meals, cleaning, laundry" then it certainly poses a question as to what people think is not similar?

https://www.charteredaccountants.ie/...ookieSupport=1
That really confirms it,
1874 is offline  
18-07-2019, 20:38   #18
1874
Registered User
 
1874's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claw Hammer View Post
Have you any authority for this proposition or is it your own view? it seems to me they are incidental costs because liability for them only arises as a direct result of the rental of the room. Revenue check the total amount of money passing between the owner and the occupant. Over €14k tax due, below €14k, no tax due. Revenue do not want to find €15k was passed over but €1,200 is claimed to be dues to heat, light etc.
The ease or difficulty of collecting money for bills is not relevant to this issue. If you get more than €14k and some of that is due to utilities, and you argue the point, it could turn out to be a very expensive way of testing your theory.
I see, question my authority, my authority is I can read the legislation. If revenue meant what you say they have gone around about way of making it not clear, further to that they could easily have specified it, I don't believe it was intended when that legislation was drafted, now later it's being interpreted as they feel it suits them. Some of the links provided make it very clear that utilities are not mentioned or even referred to.
Also your understanding of what definition of incidental? Is what? I think they have used a poor choice of word to determine what associated coats are connected to the rental figure. If you rent a property you do not typically get electric heat broadband or tv included, it's not a cost associated with paying for a property, and also, if you go to a hotel you will be charged for incidental costs in addition to what you have paid for the room, some minor costs will be included, they won't count how many sheets you used to wipe your backside, but more significant things like call usage or drinking from the fridge certainly will be charged for.
I don't believe it was written for what is now being stated as utilities were never typically included in room rentals, quite rightly and as a sensible means to prevent misuse. In a student digs accommodation yes, and I believe the wordings original intent is clear that it was to prevent someone being charged for incidental charges excessively (like a hotel does), for cheap items where an unscrupulous person might try make an unreasonable profit by providing or insisting someone buy or use. The accountant link provided confirms that, and no doubt you can ring revenue and what will they say? Only quote the party line, I get that information from acts and SIs if I want it, it may be there scheme but they either shot themselves in the foot or are misinterpreting it after the fact intentionally, the authority still comes in the legislation, not what customer service at a over the phone or what an entire dept says.

Say someone rents a room, it's x amount per month, you can't be charged costs for cleaning or laundry or meals, some may do that excessively to bring in money out of proportion to their cost (and try to consider that outside the allowable limits), the simple way to avoid that is not provide certain things, in no way would I be cooking meals for people, not as a cost saving thing, don't have the time to be doing that, previously I used to put up a cleaning Rota and get people to clean their own mess anyway, that said I'm considering letting rooms again, I'd have people clean their own dishes but I'd probably have someone come in and do general cleaning, and maybe change sheets every so often to keep a room clean, ( I discovered in tge past some people didn't either change sheets or didn't use any which is a bit manky, doesn't do for keeping good quality mattresses, a side thing)

Last edited by 1874; 18-07-2019 at 21:19.
1874 is offline  
20-07-2019, 01:02   #19
Rothmans
Registered User
 
Rothmans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,687
I'd echo what previous posters have said. Charge bills separate to the rent. My first lodger took the proverbial when I included the bills.

I put €100 on the prepay gas meter one Friday before going away for the weekend. Arrived in from work on the Monday evening. I went to put the heating on to find that it was already on. But no heat. Couldn't figure what the problem was. Thought the boiler went kaput. I eventually went out to the meter to find that the balance was zero and the emergency credit had been used. The lodger had obviously put the heater on Friday evening and left it on constant all weekend (notwithstanding that there was a timer on it)!

My electrity bills incresed by alot more than would be expected also. I subsequently found out why. He asked me to go into his room one day at lunch time while he was in work as he misplaced his wallet and wanted to know if he left it there. Went in and the room was boiling. He bought an electric heater, and obviously just left it on all day, even when not there. Not only would this eat up electric, but a definite fire hazard (which actually peeved me off more). This was in June ffs.

This really peeved me off as the rent I was charging was pretty low in the first place.

I err on the side of caution re whether the bills go towards the 14k limit. If Revenue interpret electric and gas as counting towards the limit, I take that to be true. As regards interpretation, i understand that Revenue is assumed to be correct in their interpretation of legislation, and they can impose penalties against you on this basis. If you dispute Revenue interpretation, the only way for you to challenge this is through the courts. This could be a very expensive way to prove your point, and you probably would lose. The act may not have been intended to include bills but that's the way it reads. Better safe than sorry IMO.
Rothmans is offline  
(2) thanks from:
20-07-2019, 02:28   #20
JustAThought
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,826
Be clear in the ad - eg. Double room for single occupancy only, rent xxx & bills extra ( wifi, tv/sky/ bin charges/ gas & LX etc), deposit & bank/work references required,free parking or onstreet residental /free parking etc. ID required when viewing: passport/DL. No couples -sorry!

If you are nervous about sharing ask why - fear of the unknown or are you not really wanting to have someone live in your place & be in the living room & cooking in your kitchen. If you are taking their $ they have to be able to feel at home and welcome & not be micromanaged at every corner beyond basic groundrules.
JustAThought is offline  
Advertisement
20-07-2019, 13:08   #21
1874
Registered User
 
1874's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothmans View Post
I'd echo what previous posters have said. Charge bills separate to the rent. My first lodger took the proverbial when I included the bills.

I put €100 on the prepay gas meter one Friday before going away for the weekend. Arrived in from work on the Monday evening. I went to put the heating on to find that it was already on. But no heat. Couldn't figure what the problem was. Thought the boiler went kaput. I eventually went out to the meter to find that the balance was zero and the emergency credit had been used. The lodger had obviously put the heater on Friday evening and left it on constant all weekend (notwithstanding that there was a timer on it)!

My electrity bills incresed by alot more than would be expected also. I subsequently found out why. He asked me to go into his room one day at lunch time while he was in work as he misplaced his wallet and wanted to know if he left it there. Went in and the room was boiling. He bought an electric heater, and obviously just left it on all day, even when not there. Not only would this eat up electric, but a definite fire hazard (which actually peeved me off more). This was in June ffs.

This really peeved me off as the rent I was charging was pretty low in the first place.

I err on the side of caution re whether the bills go towards the 14k limit. If Revenue interpret electric and gas as counting towards the limit, I take that to be true. As regards interpretation, i understand that Revenue is assumed to be correct in their interpretation of legislation, and they can impose penalties against you on this basis. If you dispute Revenue interpretation, the only way for you to challenge this is through the courts. This could be a very expensive way to prove your point, and you probably would lose. The act may not have been intended to include bills but that's the way it reads. Better safe than sorry IMO.

There are certain electrical goods that arent safe to use and in particular when people are not around, unfortunately that means listing off a host of rules because some people are either dim or reckless and I prefer not to risk burning my house down for someones stupidity. Id more get rid of someone for that than any other difficulty dealing with them, ie a couldnt care less or careless reckless attiude in the way of concern for my place.

So I outright do not allow pans of oil for cooking chips, no reason for them, they are dangerous if anyone turns their back and goes to another room, and they end up just turning a kitchen into a greasy mess.



yeh it might be better to err on the side of caution of the money thing and just let for the year less the summer. I would not include bills for the reason you mention, but I would take an amount X for it in advance ie at the time lodgings are paid, if the bills are less than that value X, Id roll it into a future bill, if its more than X and there was no balance carried forward from previously then I'd be looking for the balance, encourage people to use what they need and no more.
Id a similar experience with people with heating on, going around in t-shorts or with windows open, just either plain selfish or plain stupid.
1874 is offline  
20-07-2019, 14:59   #22
riclad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,391
Make it clear there s no subletting allowed,.no overnight guest,s ,
There should be no one in the house after 11 pm, or midnight apart from
the owner and the tenants .
Ask for id and a payslip, proof of employment.
You do not want a tenant who is an intern on 200 euros wages ,
you need to have a tenant who earns at least 300 euro per week, so they can afford to pay the rent .
my friend had 3 tenants, he would charge each tenant 1/4 of the esb bill
and the gas bill every 2 months .
Most of his tenants were single women over 20 who
worked in offices .
he rented out rooms for 10 years .
Only take a tenant who works within 30 minutes commute of where the house is .
I,d be suspicious of a potential tenant who works in swords and is
looking at renting in rathmines .
Is there a reason why he cannot find a place close to where he works ?
i do.nt think he charged for wifi as the bill was only 60 euro per month .
I dont think he charged for cable tv .
He sent all his accounts , financial data to an accountant who sent his tax returns to the revenue .
He claimed 12k at that time against his rental income which was declared on his tax return.
He had a rule no loud music ,or tv after 11 pm .
Each room had a 25 inch tv connected to a free to air satellite sky reciever .

Last edited by riclad; 20-07-2019 at 15:14.
riclad is offline  
20-07-2019, 15:59   #23
Claw Hammer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
It most certainly does include rent, rent has it's own words attached to it

"means all sums arising in respect of the use for the purposes of residential accommodation"

It then lists laundry, etc, and other similar services.
The word rent itself isn't mentioned.
Claw Hammer is offline  
20-07-2019, 16:50   #24
davindub
Registered User
 
davindub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claw Hammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
It most certainly does include rent, rent has it's own words attached to it

"means all sums arising in respect of the use for the purposes of residential accommodation"

It then lists laundry, etc, and other similar services.
The word rent itself isn't mentioned.
I don't think you have read that correctly, the quoted words describe "rent"?
davindub is offline  
Advertisement
20-07-2019, 17:35   #25
Claw Hammer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
I don't think you have read that correctly, the quoted words describe "rent"?
Where is the word rent used?
Claw Hammer is offline  
20-07-2019, 18:35   #26
davindub
Registered User
 
davindub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claw Hammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
I don't think you have read that correctly, the quoted words describe "rent"?
Where is the word rent used?
No where in that description?

I actually don't know how to explain this to you
davindub is offline  
21-07-2019, 14:23   #27
riclad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,391
theres some stupid tenants out there ,
maybe a rule use central heating and radiators , for heating,
No one is allowed to buy electrical heaters .
Someone will forget to turn it off ,its a fire risk .

i do not want to be sexist the ideal tenant is a woman over 25 ,who works 9-5 or a nurse.
In the midst of a housing crisis , the revenue would be better off
removing the clause re utility bills .To encourage more people to rent out a spare room.
riclad is offline  
22-07-2019, 14:07   #28
1874
Registered User
 
1874's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by riclad View Post
theres some stupid tenants out there ,
maybe a rule use central heating and radiators , for heating,
No one is allowed to buy electrical heaters .
Someone will forget to turn it off ,its a fire risk .

i do not want to be sexist the ideal tenant is a woman over 25 ,who works 9-5 or a nurse.
In the midst of a housing crisis , the revenue would be better off
removing the clause re utility bills .To encourage more people to rent out a spare room.

The clause isnt there, they should remove the ambiguousness though
1874 is offline  
23-07-2019, 11:37   #29
Claw Hammer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
No where in that description?

I actually don't know how to explain this to you
Quite simple. Show me where the word "rent" appears.
Claw Hammer is offline  
23-07-2019, 13:48   #30
davindub
Registered User
 
davindub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claw Hammer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davindub View Post
No where in that description?

I actually don't know how to explain this to you
Quite simple. Show me where the word "rent" appears.
Too Easy, You mentioned it just there!
davindub is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet