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Landlord Not Returning Deposit

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  • 06-07-2020 11:54am
    #1
    jjack93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭


    Need some help on whether to pursue my landlord or not on my deposit.

    The background is that I was renting a two bed apartment and renting one room to a friend. She decided in March she was going to move out and gave me a months notice of this. That was grand and I gave her back the deposit she had given me. I was trying to find someone to move into the room but given this was early lockdown times I was having no luck at all. I told my landlord I was going to have to move out as I could not afford the rent of the whole place by myself. She said that she didn't want to lose me as a tenant and said I could have a reduced rent for April, May & June so I could find a new housemate. The new amount was more than I had been paying for just my room but was a reduction on the overall rent. This was at the end of March. I could never have anticipated the situation which unfolded for us all and though my second room was on daft there were so few responses and anyone who did respond and I replied back to them on a viewing virtual or in real life, they wouldn't respond. I made the decision in mid-May that it just wasn't going to happen, at this time Stage 5 was still in motion and August was the re-opening of life again, I knew I couldn't pay myself for that long. I told my landlord I really did need to move out as I just couldn't afford it. I moved back home and had everything out of the apartment within 5 days so she could rent it out asap as I thought it would be much easier find someone taking the entire place rather than sharing. The apartment, I have found out from the letting agent, was rented within 1 week of the final date I paid rent to and so I should only be liable for that week I think. The landlord however is saying I won't get any of my €1500 back as there was a rent reduction for April and May. I didn't agree that I would lose my deposit if I couldn't find someone once the lower rent period had lapsed, I tried so hard and didn't want to move out. Can anyone help on whether I should pursue getting some of my deposit back please? Or was it my mistake not to clarify at the time of getting a rent reduction.


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    #2
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    jjack93 wrote: »
    Need some help on whether to pursue my landlord or not on my deposit.

    The background is that I was renting a two bed apartment and renting one room to a friend. She decided in March she was going to move out and gave me a months notice of this. That was grand and I gave her back the deposit she had given me. I was trying to find someone to move into the room but given this was early lockdown times I was having no luck at all. I told my landlord I was going to have to move out as I could not afford the rent of the whole place by myself. She said that she didn't want to lose me as a tenant and said I could have a reduced rent for April, May & June so I could find a new housemate. The new amount was more than I had been paying for just my room but was a reduction on the overall rent. This was at the end of March. I could never have anticipated the situation which unfolded for us all and though my second room was on daft there were so few responses and anyone who did respond and I replied back to them on a viewing virtual or in real life, they wouldn't respond. I made the decision in mid-May that it just wasn't going to happen, at this time Stage 5 was still in motion and August was the re-opening of life again, I knew I couldn't pay myself for that long. I told my landlord I really did need to move out as I just couldn't afford it. I moved back home and had everything out of the apartment within 5 days so she could rent it out asap as I thought it would be much easier find someone taking the entire place rather than sharing. The apartment, I have found out from the letting agent, was rented within 1 week of the final date I paid rent to and so I should only be liable for that week I think. The landlord however is saying I won't get any of my €1500 back as there was a rent reduction for April and May. I didn't agree that I would lose my deposit if I couldn't find someone once the lower rent period had lapsed, I tried so hard and didn't want to move out. Can anyone help on whether I should pursue getting some of my deposit back please? Or was it my mistake not to clarify at the time of getting a rent reduction.

    In my view, rent and deposit should never mix. You, as tenant, should not do so when leaving and neither should the landlord.
    If a reduction was agreed and that's provable by emails texts and at worst bank transfers, then your deposit is yours.
    The shortfall of agreed rent payable would be due and could be taken from a deposit as it's arrears.


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    #3
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    jjack93 wrote: »
    Need some help on whether to pursue my landlord or not on my deposit.

    The background is that I was renting a two bed apartment and renting one room to a friend. She decided in March she was going to move out and gave me a months notice of this. That was grand and I gave her back the deposit she had given me. I was trying to find someone to move into the room but given this was early lockdown times I was having no luck at all. I told my landlord I was going to have to move out as I could not afford the rent of the whole place by myself. She said that she didn't want to lose me as a tenant and said I could have a reduced rent for April, May & June so I could find a new housemate. The new amount was more than I had been paying for just my room but was a reduction on the overall rent. This was at the end of March. I could never have anticipated the situation which unfolded for us all and though my second room was on daft there were so few responses and anyone who did respond and I replied back to them on a viewing virtual or in real life, they wouldn't respond. I made the decision in mid-May that it just wasn't going to happen, at this time Stage 5 was still in motion and August was the re-opening of life again, I knew I couldn't pay myself for that long. I told my landlord I really did need to move out as I just couldn't afford it. I moved back home and had everything out of the apartment within 5 days so she could rent it out asap as I thought it would be much easier find someone taking the entire place rather than sharing. The apartment, I have found out from the letting agent, was rented within 1 week of the final date I paid rent to and so I should only be liable for that week I think. The landlord however is saying I won't get any of my €1500 back as there was a rent reduction for April and May. I didn't agree that I would lose my deposit if I couldn't find someone once the lower rent period had lapsed, I tried so hard and didn't want to move out. Can anyone help on whether I should pursue getting some of my deposit back please? Or was it my mistake not to clarify at the time of getting a rent reduction.

    In my view, rent and deposit should never mix. You, as tenant, should not do so when leaving and neither should the landlord.
    If a reduction was agreed and that's provable by emails texts and at worst bank transfers, then your deposit is yours.
    The shortfall of agreed rent payable would be due and could be taken from a deposit as it's arrears.


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    #4
    frank730
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭frank730


    what does it say on your lease? according to RTB: Reasons why a security deposit may be withheld - If a tenant provides insufficient notice of their termination of the tenancy, or they terminate a fixed term tenancy before the end of the agreed term.

    In your case I think you are terminating a fixed term lease before end of contract.


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    #5
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    frank730 wrote: »
    what does it say on your lease? according to RTB: Reasons why a security deposit may be withheld - If a tenant provides insufficient notice of their termination of the tenancy, or they terminate a fixed term tenancy before the end of the agreed term.

    In your case I think you are terminating a fixed term lease before end of contract.

    You broke your lease, therefore you loose your deposit in lieu of notice


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    #6
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    As above, you broke the lease, landlord had to re-let it and the letting agent would charge a fee of at least one month's rent.

    Landlord also reduced the rent for the past 3 months.

    Landlord has done everything correctly.


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    #7
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    You'd need to give some more details on what happened before anyone can say whether or not you're entitled to your deposit back.

    When did the lease start?
    Did you give notice in writing and how long did you give?
    Was the rent reduction agreed in writing?


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    #8
    jjack93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭jjack93


    I told them on the 22nd of May that I couldn't keep renting and was happy to move out asap to help them to find a new tenant for the apartment. I had rented there for 1.5 years but the current lease was from October 2019. They had previously in writing said I could not sublet the apartment and so they were to go about getting a new tenant not me. The rent reduction was offered by her in a text to which I agreed and thanked for.


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    #9
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,104 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    jjack93 wrote: »
    I told them on the 22nd of May that I couldn't keep renting and was happy to move out asap to help them to find a new tenant for the apartment. I had rented there for 1.5 years but the current lease was from October 2019. They had previously in writing said I could not sublet the apartment and so they were to go about getting a new tenant not me. The rent reduction was offered by her in a text to which I agreed and thanked for.

    Jack, this looks like you didn’t give valid written notice, and the correct period of notice, along with possibly braking a fixed term lease and subletting when it wasn’t permitted, it was up to the tenant who moved out to assign the lease, not you to charge the new tenant.


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    #10
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    jjack93 wrote: »
    I told them on the 22nd of May that I couldn't keep renting and was happy to move out asap to help them to find a new tenant for the apartment. I had rented there for 1.5 years but the current lease was from October 2019. They had previously in writing said I could not sublet the apartment and so they were to go about getting a new tenant not me. The rent reduction was offered by her in a text to which I agreed and thanked for.

    Previously as in the last couple of months?

    If you have a written record of the agreement for rent reduction which didn't make any stipulation of having to pay it back at a later date, then they're a bit cheeky to hold your deposit on that account. Have they given it to you in writing that that's the reason for retaining your deposit?

    If I were you, I'd raise an RTB case for withholding your deposit. It won't cost you anything


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    #11
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,104 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    MacDanger wrote: »
    Previously as in the last couple of months?

    If you have a written record of the agreement for rent reduction which didn't make any stipulation of having to pay it back at a later date, then they're a bit cheeky to hold your deposit on that account. Have they given it to you in writing that that's the reason for retaining your deposit?

    If I were you, I'd raise an RTB case for withholding your deposit. It won't cost you anything

    I think the fact op didn’t give valid notice is a much bigger issue and it alone would allow for the deposit to be retained during the notice period if the op didn’t pay rent.


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    #12
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I think the fact op didn’t give valid notice is a much bigger issue and it alone would allow for the deposit to be retained during the notice period if the op didn’t pay rent.

    Agreed but the LL doesn't appear to be disputing the notice period or breaking of contract.


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    #13
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,726 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    MacDanger wrote: »
    Agreed but the LL doesn't appear to be disputing the notice period or breaking of contract.

    Given that the bigger issue is there, as a tenant I would mot be wanting my name to be associated with an RTB case for something like this.


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    #14
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭meijin


    If you go to RTB, as the apartment was rented out quickly (do you know if at same or reduced rent?), you could possibly need to pay for the time it was empty. That's what I remember from similar cases published by RTB.

    Regarding agent fees, usually that would need to be paid anyway, so RTB doesn't award those to Landlords.

    There is no "penalty for early termination", if they re-let immediately and with no cost! As there is no loss of income for landlord.


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    #15
    jjack93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭jjack93


    I didn't mind having to pay the rent for the remainder of the time between my rent month finishing and a new tenant moving in but the landlord was complete radio silence on this, I said I was happy to help them over the coming month and they didn't take me up on this. Yes it was written into my lease that I was not allowed to sublet - when I queried whether this was sublet the entire apartment or sublet a room they confirmed it was the entire apartment. They gave the reason of not getting the deposit back as the reduced rental period and the fact that I had a contract until October, however as I said they found a new tenant and agreed with me to finish my lease


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    #16
    jjack93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭jjack93


    meijin wrote: »
    If you go to RTB, as the apartment was rented out quickly (do you know if at same or reduced rent?), you could possibly need to pay for the time it was empty. That's what I remember from similar cases published by RTB.

    Regarding agent fees, usually that would need to be paid anyway, so RTB doesn't award those to Landlords.

    There is no "penalty for early termination", if they re-let immediately and with no cost! As there is no loss of income for landlord.

    It was rented out at the original not lower 'COVID' amount to the new tenants


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    #17
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭meijin


    sublet = you don't live there, and let the whole place to someone else, collect the rent, and pay rent to the landlord
    licence = you live there, and someone is renting one room from you


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    #18
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    jjack93 wrote: »
    Need some help on whether to pursue my landlord or not on my deposit.

    The background is that I was renting a two bed apartment and renting one room to a friend. She decided in March she was going to move out and gave me a months notice of this. That was grand and I gave her back the deposit she had given me. I was trying to find someone to move into the room but given this was early lockdown times I was having no luck at all. I told my landlord I was going to have to move out as I could not afford the rent of the whole place by myself. She said that she didn't want to lose me as a tenant and said I could have a reduced rent for April, May & June so I could find a new housemate. The new amount was more than I had been paying for just my room but was a reduction on the overall rent. This was at the end of March. I could never have anticipated the situation which unfolded for us all and though my second room was on daft there were so few responses and anyone who did respond and I replied back to them on a viewing virtual or in real life, they wouldn't respond. I made the decision in mid-May that it just wasn't going to happen, at this time Stage 5 was still in motion and August was the re-opening of life again, I knew I couldn't pay myself for that long. I told my landlord I really did need to move out as I just couldn't afford it. I moved back home and had everything out of the apartment within 5 days so she could rent it out asap as I thought it would be much easier find someone taking the entire place rather than sharing. The apartment, I have found out from the letting agent, was rented within 1 week of the final date I paid rent to and so I should only be liable for that week I think. The landlord however is saying I won't get any of my €1500 back as there was a rent reduction for April and May. I didn't agree that I would lose my deposit if I couldn't find someone once the lower rent period had lapsed, I tried so hard and didn't want to move out. Can anyone help on whether I should pursue getting some of my deposit back please? Or was it my mistake not to clarify at the time of getting a rent reduction.
    Overall, this seems very messy on your part as you haven't abided by notice periods and lease terms and so on.

    Your landlord seemed to have been dealing with you reasonably before, although I'm confused by the bolded part and the reason they've given for holding your deposit. They've basically said the reduction in rent they gave you during the lockdown period is being taken now in the form of your deposit?

    As mentioned above, you could use this to raise an issue with the RTB. Even if you haven't acted completely properly yourself, the landlord isn't allowed make up an excuse to keep your deposit.


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    #19
    jjack93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭jjack93


    Sorry I think people think I only moved out with 5 days notice, I said to the landlord this is my one months notice and would pay rent for that time but said I would prefer they found someone to rent at full price as soon as they could rather than me at discount price. I didn't want to cause them any financial loss whatsoever.


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    #20
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    The tenant would win an RTB case I this instance,m as the landlord mitigated his losses within one week.

    Tenant should get deposit back less one weeks rent.

    Slam dunk OP if you lodge RTB case.


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    #21
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    jjack93 wrote: »
    Sorry I think people think I only moved out with 5 days notice, I said to the landlord this is my one months notice and would pay rent for that time but said I would prefer they found someone to rent at full price as soon as they could rather than me at discount price. I didn't want to cause them any financial loss whatsoever.
    Did you sign a lease saying you'd stay until October 2020 though?

    This is what people are talking about when they mean you're outside the rules a bit on this one.

    Although this shouldn't affect your deposit and the weird reason your landlord has given for keeping it.


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    #22
    jjack93
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭jjack93


    guyfawkes5 wrote: »
    Did you sign a lease saying you'd stay until October 2020 though?

    Hi yes my lease was until October 2020 but there was mutual agreement to terminate and I was not given an option to find a new tenant for the apartment as a whole


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    #23
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭meijin


    guyfawkes5 wrote: »
    Did you sign a lease saying you'd stay until October 2020 though?

    it doesn't matter; landlord agreed early termination and rented out the property within a week; at most tenant would need to pay for the week it was empty


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    #24
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    jjack93 wrote: »
    Hi yes my lease was until October 2020 but there was mutual agreement to terminate and I was not given an option to find a new tenant for the apartment as a whole
    Sorry I missed that bit - you should be in the clear so.


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