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Can a married couple have two PPRs - one each?

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  • 26-01-2021 12:45pm
    #1
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭


    I was talking to someone the other day and they said that they had a relative who was married and lived in Dublin with his wife, but he had recently moved to Donegal.
    Anyway the story went on that they owned the house in Dublin outright.
    They decided to rent rooms in the one in both houses for the rent a room relief.
    To get around tax, the one in Donegal is his PPR and the one in Dublin is her PPR. Apparently he does not have to live with his wife. They can have separate houses where they live, even if they spend equal amounts of time with each other in their own houses.


    I was confused. Is this allowed by revenue?
    On the face of it, i dont see why a married couple have to live with each other all the time, but its a tax dodge for sure.


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    #2
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Short answer is that they're probably not getting away with it.

    If they're both listed on the deeds of both properties, then the sale of either house will result in CGT being payable by at least one spouse. For example, if the house in Dublin is sold for a gain of €100,000 on the original purchase, then there is a €100k CGT liability. Half of that is his - and since it's not his PPR he will have to pay full whack. She will be able to claim PPR relief on her €50k.

    If they spend equal amounts of time with each other in each house, then Revenue are unlikely to accept the "This house is mine and this house is hers" explanation, since they're both spending six months of the year in each house.


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    #3
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    seamus wrote: »
    Short answer is that they're probably not getting away with it.

    If they're both listed on the deeds of both properties, then the sale of either house will result in CGT being payable by at least one spouse. For example, if the house in Dublin is sold for a gain of €100,000 on the original purchase, then there is a €100k CGT liability. Half of that is his - and since it's not his PPR he will have to pay full whack. She will be able to claim PPR relief on her €50k.

    If they spend equal amounts of time with each other in each house, then Revenue are unlikely to accept the "This house is mine and this house is hers" explanation, since they're both spending six months of the year in each house.


    Seems like an odd arrangement alright.
    I dont know the exact ins and outs of it. Just thought it was an interesting setup.
    I do know that when I was married the house was in my name. And my ex had her original house still but in her name only. Even though we were married. So maybe thats their setup.


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    #4
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭DubCount


    AFIK a married couple can only have 1 PPR. This can regularly come up when a couple live in the country but "himself" works in Dublin and they buy an apartment for him to live in Monday to Friday, or a couple meet up late in life and both come owning a property outright. It doesn't matter about the circumstances - one couple = one PPR.


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    #5
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    DubCount wrote: »
    AFIK a married couple can only have 1 PPR. This can regularly come up when a couple live in the country but "himself" works in Dublin and they buy an apartment for him to live in Monday to Friday, or a couple meet up late in life and both come owning a property outright. It doesn't matter about the circumstances - one couple = one PPR.


    I can see that happening a lot alright.
    What if they werent married?
    Which sparks another thought in my head :)
    If they were married could they separate, but stay very good friends :)


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    #6
    PaybackPayroll
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭PaybackPayroll


    You can be one of these three:

    Jointly Assessed
    Separately Assessed
    or Separate Treatment.

    Could they not go on separate treatment?

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/marital-status/marriage-and-civil-partnerships/separate-treatment.aspx

    It would be interesting to know if this has any bearing on PPRs.


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    #7
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭DubCount


    PaybackPayroll wrote: »
    You can be one of these three:

    Jointly Assessed
    Separately Assessed
    or Separate Treatment.

    Could they not go on separate treatment?

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/marital-status/marriage-and-civil-partnerships/separate-treatment.aspx

    It would be interesting to know if this has any bearing on PPRs.

    The wording on the CGT exemption states that a married couple are treated as a single individual for the purpose of this PPR exemption. I dont see how basis of assessment changes this.


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    #8
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    You need to ask over in the Taxation forum for the technical reply but, yes, while rare, a married couple did get to have 2 PPRs. One Dublin, one Galway. Unsure whether it was through the courts or through a Revenue appeal.
    It's rare but it has happened. Have others followed suit since? That's likely also. But only a handful would meet the criteria.


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    #9
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I heard a few stories over the last few days of couples (still happily married) separating and doing this after the crash.


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    #10
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    As a married couple, if you have two or more properties you have to nominate which property is your PPR.

    Section 604 TCA 1997 deals with PPR - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/39/section/604/enacted/en/html

    Revenue are smart to the fact that people try to say well I live in that house and she lives in the other one.


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    #11
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,726 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    As a married couple, if you have two or more properties you have to nominate which property is your PPR.

    Section 604 TCA 1997 deals with PPR - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/39/section/604/enacted/en/html

    Revenue are smart to the fact that people try to say well I live in that house and she lives in the other one.

    So what happens to couple who are genuinely are separated?


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    #12
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    So what happens to couple who are genuinely are separated?


    Or can you be separated and just shack up now and again for a rumble :)


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    #13
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    As a married couple, if you have two or more properties you have to nominate which property is your PPR.

    Section 604 TCA 1997 deals with PPR - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/39/section/604/enacted/en/html

    Revenue are smart to the fact that people try to say well I live in that house and she lives in the other one.

    This is obvious. And a given. The Op asks is it possible? I have said that it is, despite those basic fundamental facts. Further research will reveal more.


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