New EU army

long range shooter · 27-06-2016 2:41pm #1

What happens to the recruitment if EU make their own army.
And what happens to countries in the EEC,or european countries not in the EU?

http://yournewswire.com/europe-unveils-eu-army-following-brexit/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3660346/Who-protect-NATO-EU-Army-asks-historian-ANTONY-BEEVOR.html

Will Ireland join with own troops or will EU recruit their own?

Brian Clowen · 27-06-2016 9:33pm

sorry your first source inforwars.com is pure unadulterated horse manure and should notbe taken seriously in any way shape or form.

don't ever bother to read it again, the site is propaganda & tosh.

the second source is pro brexit little England rubbish where they completely and intentionally misrepresent what the EU Battle Group are and the concept of common defence.

There will never be an EU army in the manner you are thinking.

Never, just will not happen.

Even if it it ever did (which it wont) Ireland will never be part of it, we wouldn't spend the money that it would take to be a part of it.

The triple lock we have and the fact that we have signed clauses in our treaties with the EU absolving us of taking part in such offensive actions can assure you of that.

long range shooter · 27-06-2016 9:35pm

Brian Clowen wrote: »

sorry your first source inforwars.com is pure unadulterated horse manure and should notbe taken seriously in any way shape or form.

don't ever bother to read it again, the site is propaganda & tosh.

the second source is pro brexit little England rubbish where they completely and intentionally misrepresent what the EU Battle Group are and the concept of common defence.

There will never be an EU army in the manner you are thinking.

Never, just will not happen.

Even if it it ever did (which it wont) Ireland will never be part of it, we wouldn't spend the money that it would take to be a part of it.

The triple lock we have and the fact that we have signed clauses in our treaties with the EU absolving us of taking part in such offensive actions can assure you of that.

Ireland is allready part of nordic battle group,what does that tell you?
You dont think EU wants to expand its military a bit further?

Owryan · 28-06-2016 1:10am

long range shooter wrote: »

Ireland is allready part of nordic battle group,what does that tell you?
You dont think EU wants to expand its military a bit further?

were part of the Nordic B/G. From July Ireland will be part of a B/G with Germany, Belgium and the Czech Rep.

What it tells me is that the Irish Defence Forces are getting an opportunity to work alongside other countries and improve their skillset.

Irish soldiers have attended military exercises in the UK too, does that mean we are going to join the British army?

long range shooter · 28-06-2016 1:26am

Owryan wrote: »

were part of the Nordic B/G. From July Ireland will be part of a B/G with Germany, Belgium and the Czech Rep.

What it tells me is that the Irish Defence Forces are getting an opportunity to work alongside other countries and improve their skillset.

Irish soldiers have attended military exercises in the UK too, does that mean we are going to join the British army?

What this tells me is that EU is building up an amy,that will have its hq in Brussels.
And probably under their command.
If you want to be a mercenary under EU command,be my guest.
I prefer to be under command from my own country.

donvito99 · 28-06-2016 6:41pm

long range shooter wrote: »

What this tells me is that EU is building up an amy,that will have its hq in Brussels.
And probably under their command.
If you want to be a mercenary under EU command,be my guest.
I prefer to be under command from my own country.

What did people do before the internet when they wanted to humiliate themselves anonymously?

long range shooter · 28-06-2016 6:42pm

donvito99 wrote: »

What did people do before the internet when they wanted to humiliate themselves anonymously?

Many joined the French foreign legion

BoJack Horseman · 28-06-2016 7:12pm

Brian Clowen wrote: »

There will never be an EU army in the manner you are thinking.

Indeed....

So while there is an EU military command staff numbering over 200 personnel based in Brussels, we can assume they command merely thin air & are in no way any kind of experimental move towards centralised comand and control

There is absolutely no standing units under any EU banner.....
Well, except this one.

So... as any rational person can see, just because there is a large joint EU command staff & there has been a unit of EU bannered troops already stood up, this is absolutely in no way at all the preparatory ground work for a more established joint EU force....
I'm sure these folks are just doing this for the larfs & inferring anything more is just tin-foil-hattery :pac:

long range shooter · 28-06-2016 7:28pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Indeed....

So while there is an EU military command staff numbering over 200 personnel based in Brussels, we can assume they command merely thin air & are in no way any kind of experimental move towards centralised comand and control

There is absolutely no standing units under any EU banner.....
Well, except this one.

So... as any rational person can see, just because there is a large joint EU command staff & there has been a unit of EU bannered troops already stood up, this is absolutely in no way at all the preparatory ground work for a more established joint EU force....
I'm sure these folks are just doing this for the larfs & inferring anything more is just tin-foil-hattery :pac:

You forgot about this one

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Battlegroup

BoJack Horseman · 28-06-2016 7:39pm

long range shooter wrote: »

You forgot about this one

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Battlegroup

I hadn't forgotten, I omitted them.
They are a fig-leaf....
The are paper formations that are controlled & commanded by the largest member of any give group, ergo: C&C is still retained by the sovereign.

However Eurocorps & the EUMS are very different in that they are supernational in their conception & operation.

Also, no EU battlegroup has ever been used, whereas Eurocorps have been deployed.

long range shooter · 28-06-2016 8:17pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I hadn't forgotten, I omitted them.
They are a fig-leaf....
The are paper formations that are controlled & commanded by the largest member of any give group, ergo: C&C is still retained by the sovereign.

However Eurocorps & the EUMS are very different in that they are supernational in their conception & operation.

Also, no EU battlegroup has ever been used, whereas Eurocorps have been deployed.

Yes as long as EU dont use artice 42 in the Lisbon Treaty.

Brian Clowen · 28-06-2016 9:21pm

long range shooter wrote: »

What this tells me is that EU is building up an amy,that will have its hq in Brussels.
And probably under their command.
If you want to be a mercenary under EU command,be my guest.
I prefer to be under command from my own country.

Ah sorry I see what you did there.

My bad, I answered you sincerely but you are a nutcase.

You see the EU as a bad thing.
That makes you a bit mental.

You think the EU is a warmonger.
That makes you a even bigger bit mental.

You can't be a mercenary is you are serving in the armed forces of a sovereign state, carrying out lawful orders assigned to you by an elected government.
Saying otherwise makes you sound even a bigger bit mental.

We would still be a priest ridden back water with crap roads & even worse parish pump legislation that we currently have if it wasn't for the EU.

We haven't had a major war in 70 years in Europe because of the things such as the EU.

When the wheels ever come of the wagon that is Russia (who really are a threat to democracy unlike the EU) , I hope that NATO and thé Eastern EU nations are in a fit state to counter them.

Again it won't bother us here in Ireland as we won't have anything to do with it, maybe peacekeeping in what will be left of some of the former Baltic nations if ever such a horrendous vista was ever to occur.

long range shooter · 29-06-2016 1:42am

Brian Clowen wrote: »

Ah sorry I see what you did there.

My bad, I answered you sincerely but you are a nutcase.

You see the EU as a bad thing.
That makes you a bit mental.

You think the EU is a warmonger.
That makes you a even bigger bit mental.

You can't be a mercenary is you are serving in the armed forces of a sovereign state, carrying out lawful orders assigned to you by an elected government.
Saying otherwise makes you sound even a bigger bit mental.

We would still be a priest ridden back water with crap roads & even worse parish pump legislation that we currently have if it wasn't for the EU.

We haven't had a major war in 70 years in Europe because of the things such as the EU.

When the wheels ever come of the wagon that is Russia (who really are a threat to democracy unlike the EU) , I hope that NATO and thé Eastern EU nations are in a fit state to counter them.

Again it won't bother us here in Ireland as we won't have anything to do with it, maybe peacekeeping in what will be left of some of the former Baltic nations if ever such a horrendous vista was ever to occur.

If you havent noticed EU is bad yet,you will have s rude awkening one day.
Good luck in the future,not your fault,you probably dont know any better.
And since Ireland is depending on EU so much,or Ireland would just be another island,i see where your coming from.
Hope Merkel dont give Ireland to much debt in the future.
Why do you think EU is building an army,because of Russian agression along the borders.
And as far as i know,Ireland is part of the European union,or did i miss something?
The countries along Russias borders are joining NATO and the EU just because of ithat,and they sign the Lisbon treaty quicker than anyone else cause of article 42.

sparky42 · 29-06-2016 1:20pm

long range shooter wrote: »

If you havent noticed EU is bad yet,you will have s rude awkening one day.
Good luck in the future,not your fault,you probably dont know any better.
And since Ireland is depending on EU so much,or Ireland would just be another island,i see where your coming from.
Hope Merkel dont give Ireland to much debt in the future.
Why do you think EU is building an army,because of Russian agression along the borders.
And as far as i know,Ireland is part of the European union,or did i miss something?
The countries along Russias borders are joining NATO and the EU just because of ithat,and they sign the Lisbon treaty quicker than anyone else cause of article 42.

I could make a comment about Tin Foil but I won't.
The reality is that the suggestion of a European SuperArmy is laughable, just as the "German Conscripting everyone" is, seriously just go look at the REALITY.

The German military is nothing but a shattered shadow of what it was in the Cold War, by their own admission there have been years that they couldn't get into double digits of readiness in their Eurofighters (ie less than 10 airplanes), their Army has had a Fire sale of their armour.

It's the same throughout Europe, all of their militaries are shadows of themselves.

Honestly if this ended up with some European position on building up capabilities to the NATO standard of 2%, I wouldn't complain at all.

long range shooter · 29-06-2016 4:10pm

sparky42 wrote: »

I could make a comment about Tin Foil but I won't.
The reality is that the suggestion of a European SuperArmy is laughable, just as the "German Conscripting everyone" is, seriously just go look at the REALITY.

The German military is nothing but a shattered shadow of what it was in the Cold War, by their own admission there have been years that they couldn't get into double digits of readiness in their Eurofighters (ie less than 10 airplanes), their Army has had a Fire sale of their armour.

It's the same throughout Europe, all of their militaries are shadows of themselves.

Honestly if this ended up with some European position on building up capabilities to the NATO standard of 2%, I wouldn't complain at all.

Thats what they are trying to do,build up the proposed NATO budget of 2% per country.
I dont have a problem with that either,what i have a problem with is if this socalled army is to be controlled from Brussels,and under the Lisbon treaty article 42.

sparky42 · 29-06-2016 5:07pm

long range shooter wrote: »

Thats what they are trying to do,build up the proposed NATO budget of 2% per country.
I dont have a problem with that either,what i have a problem with is if this socalled army is to be controlled from Brussels,and under the Lisbon treaty article 42.

Ah so it's just the tin foil issue, fair enough then.

long range shooter · 29-06-2016 5:17pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Ah so it's just the tin foil issue, fair enough then.

Not much tinfoil in article 42 in the Lisbon treaty.
Good luck with that.
Hope you dont have to fight for EU or Brussels.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-union-and-comments/title-5-general-provisions-on-the-unions-external-action-and-specific-provisions/chapter-2-specific-provisions-on-the-common-foreign-and-security-policy/section-2-provisions-on-the-common-security-and-defence-policy/129-article-42.html

AnGaelach · 03-10-2016 7:31pm

Brian Clowen wrote:

You see the EU as a bad thing.
That makes you a bit mental.

Some see it as a bad thing, which it obviously isn't. But it sure as shíte isn't solely good either, invading the competencies of national states to make decisions for themselves (Ireland on tax, Visgrad bloc on immigration). The EU is ultimately a Franco-German machine, it's not there for the benefit of you or me, to believe so is naive at best.

Brian Clowen wrote:

You think the EU is a warmonger.
That makes you a even bigger bit mental.

Yeah, because the EU totally wouldn't use its capability if it had it

I don't think there's a single instance of a power not utilising its strength when given the opportunity. Sure, they prefer negotiating (as every major power has) but they wouldn't hesitate to sledge hammer their opponents if they don't get their way. Look at the US, Russia/USSR, or China.

Brian Clowen wrote:

You can't be a mercenary is you are serving in the armed forces of a sovereign state, carrying out lawful orders assigned to you by an elected government.
Saying otherwise makes you sound even a bigger bit mental.

Just being pedantic, but the EU isn't a sovereign State. It's a supranational union.

Brian Clowen wrote:

We would still be a priest ridden back water with crap roads & even worse parish pump legislation that we currently have if it wasn't for the EU.

That's debatable, the US has about 5 times as much investment here as the EU (~$250bn+ US to ~€40bn EU), but yes the EU was a major component of that.

Brian Clowen wrote:

We haven't had a major war in 70 years in Europe because of the things such as the EU. NATO

Fixed that for you. NATO's been around longer than the EU and is specifically security-orientated. Anyone who thinks the EU is responsible for the relatively (I say relatively because Yugoslavia was definitely a major war) stable history of Europe post-ww2 is deluded.

sparky42 · 05-10-2016 5:43am

Turns out using the ignore function is much easier than trying to wrestle stupid.

AnGaelach · 05-10-2016 11:34am

sparky42 wrote:

Turns out using the ignore function is much easier than trying to wrestle stupid.

If you want to discuss any of the topics I've brought up like a grown up, instead of acting like someone with his head up his hole, feel free.

29-05-2020 4:20am

Brian Clowen wrote: »

sorry your first source inforwars.com is pure unadulterated horse manure and should notbe taken seriously in any way shape or form.

don't ever bother to read it again, the site is propaganda & tosh.

the second source is pro brexit little England rubbish where they completely and intentionally misrepresent what the EU Battle Group are and the concept of common defence.

There will never be an EU army in the manner you are thinking.

Never, just will not happen.

Even if it it ever did (which it wont) Ireland will never be part of it, we wouldn't spend the money that it would take to be a part of it.

The triple lock we have and the fact that we have signed clauses in our treaties with the EU absolving us of taking part in such offensive actions can assure you of that.

Maybe it will be sooner than you realise,since Ireland is now even deeper in Brussels pocket

29-05-2020 4:22am

donvito99 wrote: »

What did people do before the internet when they wanted to humiliate themselves anonymously?

Looked into facts,something you obviously need to do before you humiliate yourself even more.

29-05-2020 4:25am

Brian Clowen wrote: »

Ah sorry I see what you did there.

My bad, I answered you sincerely but you are a nutcase.

You see the EU as a bad thing.
That makes you a bit mental.

You think the EU is a warmonger.
That makes you a even bigger bit mental.

You can't be a mercenary is you are serving in the armed forces of a sovereign state, carrying out lawful orders assigned to you by an elected government.
Saying otherwise makes you sound even a bigger bit mental.

We would still be a priest ridden back water with crap roads & even worse parish pump legislation that we currently have if it wasn't for the EU.

We haven't had a major war in 70 years in Europe because of the things such as the EU.

When the wheels ever come of the wagon that is Russia (who really are a threat to democracy unlike the EU) , I hope that NATO and thé Eastern EU nations are in a fit state to counter them.

Again it won't bother us here in Ireland as we won't have anything to do with it, maybe peacekeeping in what will be left of some of the former Baltic nations if ever such a horrendous vista was ever to occur.

You should be careful who you calling a nutcase when you obviously lack the fundemental intelligence all human beings have.
This could be a reality sooner than you want since Ireland is herby EUs bitch no 1.

knucklehead6 · 29-05-2020 4:35am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looked into facts,something you obviously need to do before you humiliate yourself even more.

Let me get this straight.

When people wanted to humiliate themselves before the internet they looked into facts??
That implies that in your mind education is humiliating.

I really shouldn’t be responding to this but my two year old is awake which means I am too.

You have resurrected a 4 year old thread, and are waffling in about OTHER people being humiliated. Okaaaaaasy then

29-05-2020 5:07am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

When people wanted to humiliate themselves before the internet they looked into facts??
That implies that in your mind education is humiliating.

I really shouldn’t be responding to this but my two year old is awake which means I am too.

You have resurrected a 4 year old thread, and are waffling in about OTHER people being humiliated. Okaaaaaasy then

If you got nothing else to come with i suggest you find another thread to humiliate yourself,and perhaps get a life and an education as well.
This is about the EU army,not how to humiliate yourself

sparky42 · 29-05-2020 11:41am

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe it will be sooner than you realise,since Ireland is now even deeper in Brussels pocket

This thread is 4 years old, in those 4 years Irish spend on Defence as % of GDP has continued to decline to the lowest in Europe, Defence Capabilities have continued to decline in those 4 years, and the Defence Forces Strength has continued to decline...

The EU has given exactly 2 Sh!ts about this, but somehow you think this thread still is an issue?

Clearly Lockdown has been too much for some.

29-05-2020 1:01pm

sparky42 wrote: »

This thread is 4 years old, in those 4 years Irish spend on Defence as % of GDP has continued to decline to the lowest in Europe, Defence Capabilities have continued to decline in those 4 years, and the Defence Forces Strength has continued to decline...

The EU has given exactly 2 Sh!ts about this, but somehow you think this thread still is an issue?

Clearly Lockdown has been too much for some.

Clearly you are butthurt cause OP was right and its even more of an issue today then it was 4 years ago.
And it seems you should contiinue in lockdown,cause you obvioulsy dont bring much good back to society.
Defence forces cutbacks and Irelands major debts does only mean Ireland is even deeper into Brussels pocket and they surely know how to take advantage of that in case they need some soldiers to fight for them.

sparky42 · 29-05-2020 1:45pm

Oh dear, must be quite sad to be that much of a tinfoil nutter, call back when you get conscripted.

29-05-2020 1:48pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Oh dear, must be quite sad to be that much of a tinfoil nutter, call back when you get conscripted.

I have been conscripted for 25 years in the service,allthough not the irish joke forces.
Call me when you are being enlisted into the EU army,I am sure Merkel and Macron would need a helping hand in the future,now that Ireland is becoming EUs bitch no 1 with debts up to their neck.

sparky42 · 29-05-2020 1:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been conscripted for 25 years in the service,allthough not the irish joke forces.
Call me when you are being enlisted into the EU army,I am sure Merkel and Macron would need a helping hand in the future,now that Ireland is becoming EUs bitch no 1 with debts up to their neck.

Ah bless, so which nation are you from, damn few EU nations that still use conscription, not even your dreaded Merkel use it anymore...

As for the rest, I'm guessing UKIP waffle points with very little knowledge of reality. There is zero prospect of any of that happening.

29-05-2020 1:57pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Ah bless, so which nation are you from, damn few EU nations that still use conscription, not even your dreaded Merkel use it anymore...

As for the rest, I'm guessing UKIP waffle points with very little knowledge of reality. There is zero prospect of any of that happening.

There was zero prospect of irish troops being sent to Afghanistan and Syria too,wasnt it,strange but it happened though.
And remember irish troops have been sold out before by politicians,and i will guarantee you it will happen again.

New EU army

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