PP butchering lucky 15s

RivetingRoger · 15-02-2019 2:16pm #1

No more treble odds for one winner. Double odds now. No doubt boyles will follow suit now

HarshOstrich · 15-02-2019 2:46pm

RivetingRoger wrote: »

No more treble odds for one winner. Double odds now. No doubt boyles will follow suit now

Bonuses gone too I heard

Gringo180 · 15-02-2019 2:59pm

Bet365 still treble odds. By far the best online betting company.

RivetingRoger · 15-02-2019 3:14pm

HarshOstrich wrote: »

Bonuses gone too I heard

Correct

posturingpat · 15-02-2019 5:00pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

Bet365 still treble odds. By far the best online betting company.

I never get treble off them . Is it only specific races

IAMAMORON · 15-02-2019 5:12pm

I only back multiples online, they won't give you guaranteed odds on multiples in the shops. I also don't bother with the ew double of the bet. Basically my yankees are 1 x ew 4fold accum + 4 x trebles ew + 4 doubles, win only. It works out a lot cheaper. you get **** all from an ew double anyways. I might make an exception if one of my fancies is an exotic price like 25 - 1 , these can add up.

The lucky 15 was always a rip off IMO. The concept of the treble odds on one winner is bollox tbh. An even money winner at treble odds is only 3-1 etc. Hardly worth your while.

Kauto · 15-02-2019 5:34pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I only back multiples online, they won't give you guaranteed odds on multiples in the shops. I also don't bother with the ew double of the bet. Basically my yankees are 1 x ew 4fold accum + 4 x trebles ew + 4 doubles, win only. It works out a lot cheaper. you get **** all from an ew double anyways. I might make an exception if one of my fancies is an exotic price like 25 - 1 , these can add up.

The lucky 15 was always a rip off IMO. The concept of the treble odds on one winner is bollox tbh. An even money winner at treble odds is only 3-1 etc. Hardly worth your while.

The funny part is when you see lads putting even money shots into a lucky 15. You might as well do a yankee and save yourself the 4 bets.

IAMAMORON · 15-02-2019 5:45pm

Kauto wrote: »

The funny part is when you see lads putting even money shots into a lucky 15. You might as well do a yankee and save yourself the 4 bets.

I massively agree. It also highlights the edge the bookie has over your yankee in the first place. You are looking for 4 horses at reasonable prices rather than 4 sitters at tighter odds.

pugw · 15-02-2019 6:28pm

Is this in shop or online?

Gringo180 · 15-02-2019 6:31pm

posturingpat wrote: »

I never get treble off them . Is it only specific races

I usually get treble odds on every race. Must check it actually again.

JagoMoon · 15-02-2019 9:19pm

They've slowly been getting rid of every bit of value for the past few years. 1/5 place terms on golf and same for antepost betting now this. But sure aren't their ads gas!!!

lemush · 15-02-2019 10:43pm

As of Monday the same applies to Boylesports.

curioser · 15-02-2019 11:17pm

Staff seem to have been briefed to tell customers that it's because of the increased tax. Powers and the others have gradually been scaling back on value that had been taken for granted for years - the extra places are usually given in handicaps of 12+ runners, where the place odds are 1/5th instead of 1/4th, a cut of 25% on the place payout. This started well before the tax increase. The interests of the shareholders trump everything else.

HarshOstrich · 15-02-2019 11:34pm

What’s the point going into the shops anymore, treble odds and bonus scheme Are the main reason for going into the shop where I would also do a placepot but you can do them online with certain bookmakers anyway.
They will bring them back eventually when they see less business going through there shops which will certainly happen.
Had 1 winner in Dundalk lucky 15 tonight, I’m disgusted only getting double odds.

The Rooster · 16-02-2019 12:15am

HarshOstrich wrote: »

What’s the point going into the shops anymore, treble odds and bonus scheme Are the main reason for going into the shop where I would also do a placepot but you can do them online with certain bookmakers anyway.
They will bring them back eventually when they see less business going through there shops which will certainly happen.
Had 1 winner in Dundalk lucky 15 tonight, I’m disgusted only getting double odds.

Only reason I started going back into the shop was because I got restricted online.
While it works out the same, there is definitely an added feel good factor being paid out in hard cash! And you feel the bad days more, which is a good thing.
The money back as a freebet PP offer can be good. EG this week at one meeting per day, there was money back up to 20 if you came 2,3,4 to the SP fav.
Ladbrokes and Boyle’s also do similar, at least 2nd to SP fav. I never got these when I had online accounts with them. Although there are other online offers of course.

Do the Justice refunds that PP give occasionally apply online? I’ve got them a few times in shop, but don’t recall getting them online.

Blud · 16-02-2019 10:05am

Can anyone link to a post on here that had 4 winners in a Lucky 15, ever?

Or if you can't find a link does anyone recall one?

Seems like a mug's bet to me.

Francie Barrett · 16-02-2019 10:17am

Would rarely have done a lucky 15 in the past but will almost certainly never do one again now.

Thanks Paddy!

Earendil · 16-02-2019 10:40am

Blud wrote: »

Can anyone link to a post on here that had 4 winners in a Lucky 15, ever?

Or if you can't find a link does anyone recall one?

Seems like a mug's bet to me.

I've had 3 lots of times....never the 4

HarshOstrich · 16-02-2019 11:08am

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Would rarely have done a lucky 15 in the past but will almost certainly never do one again now.

Thanks Paddy!

Never got a lucky 15 up on its own, got 4 out of a lucky 63, but I did get a lucky 31 up about a year and a half ago, wasn’t with Powers tho unfortunately.
Going to different bookmaker this morning for treble odds and bonuses.

RivetingRoger · 16-02-2019 1:06pm

Had 4 winners in a 33c ew lucky 15 once about 4 years back. 9.90 stake retd about 750 euros

The Tetrarch · 16-02-2019 9:51pm

I had the first 6 up out of 7 in a Super Heinz decades ago (win only).
They were all short prices. The 7th was at Thirsk. I got about 300 pounds (?)

My guess is it was Irish 2000 Guineas day, 16th May 1992.
(?) Firing Line 7/4; Tahdeed 4/6; Rodrigo De Triano 8/11; Opera House 5/2; Khizarabad 11/8.

I had called into my parents house (they were in Spain) to watch on their big television.
The brother arrived from Mayo and was wondering why I had a big red excited face on me (waiting for the 7th race).

The only multiple bet I do now is a four horse win accumulator on the first four English classics (do it a day before the Guineas weekend).

posturingpat · 17-02-2019 10:33am

Had the 4 up 5 times I think. All only small money bets 1 Euro lucky 15 usually.
The most memorable one was when I was waiting on Salsify in the Fox hunters and poor Jane Mangan and Oscar delta had it all wrapped up and the horse threw it away trying to take the wrong course.

dk6dk6 · 17-02-2019 10:41am

Think pp shops are doing a free bet now when you do a lucky 15, I never realised they where cutting treble the odds but I presume this why they giving out the free bet now to try keep people doing them.

But like the majority of pp shops the staff don’t tell you, you have to go asking for it even though it’s plastered over the screens in shops.

HarshOstrich · 17-02-2019 10:45am

dk6dk6 wrote: »

Think pp shops are doing a free bet now when you do a lucky 15, I never realised they where cutting treble the odds but I presume this why they giving out the free bet now to try keep people doing them.

But like the majority of pp shops the staff don’t tell you, you have to go asking for it even though it’s plastered over the screens in shops.

Is this with every lucky 15
They have to do something as I went do a different bookmarker in the town,that are still doing treble odds.
Can only see them losing more money in the long run as people will go elsewhere.

Mostly Harmless · 17-02-2019 10:47am

Lucky 15 with treble odds was far from a mugs bet IMO, particularly if you're going EW with decent place terms.

dk6dk6 · 17-02-2019 11:04am

HarshOstrich wrote: »

Is this with every lucky 15
They have to do something as I went do a different bookmarker in the town,that are still doing treble odds.
Can only see them losing more money in the long run as people will go elsewhere.

I’m not sure how it works mate I just saw it up on the screen then I overheard a lad at the counter saying he never got a free bet when he done his lucky 15. I wouldnt do a lucky 15 myself in a powers shop, mainly because their early prices are disgraceful and you don’t get BOG on multiples.

The Mig · 17-02-2019 11:55am

Got the 4 winners only once in my life.

They’re giving free bets yeah. Lucky bets that cost a tenner or more and you get a free €10 bet. Less than a tenner and it’s a fiver free bet

The Tetrarch · 17-02-2019 2:20pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I had the first 6 up out of 7 in a Super Heinz decades ago (win only).
They were all short prices. The 7th was at Thirsk. I got about 300 pounds (?)

Probably Rahon 13/8 fav in the Thirsk 5f Fillies Maiden Stakes at 17:00.
"Close up, led over 2f out until well over 1f out, soon beaten".
Luckily that race was not televised. I found out on teletext.

UrbanFret · 17-02-2019 7:46pm

Boylesports to announce they are to follow suit tomorrow. Cowardly bastards the lot of them. This is what happens when the small independents get snapped up.

Andrew00 · 17-02-2019 8:05pm

UrbanFret wrote: »

Boylesports to announce they are to follow suit tomorrow. Cowardly bastards the lot of them. This is what happens when the small independents get snapped up.

Sheepdogs

HarshOstrich · 17-02-2019 8:16pm

Surely the smaller shops are missing a trick here, keep the treble odds and bonuses on lucky bets and you will get more business, I have already stopped using paddy’s in my town, unfortunately the only other bookmaker in the town is following suit next week.
Must be a joint protest amongst bookmakers because it’s an opportunity for bookmakers to win some business

Dr. Bre · 17-02-2019 8:18pm

Blud wrote: »

Can anyone link to a post on here that had 4 winners in a Lucky 15, ever?

Or if you can't find a link does anyone recall one?

Seems like a mug's bet to me.

Bookies bets they are. I doubt anyone in profit from just doing lucky 15s

Gringo180 · 17-02-2019 8:22pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Bookies bets they are. I doubt anyone in profit from just doing lucky 15s

Alot of people will do a lucky 15 just for value purposes. There getting 4 races from there bet instead of just doing a single, that will more than likely cost the same as the L15. If ur a fan of value there a good bet.

spurshero · 17-02-2019 8:31pm

JagoMoon wrote: »

They've slowly been getting rid of every bit of value for the past few years. 1/5 place terms on golf and same for antepost betting now this. But sure aren't their ads gas!!!

Best post on here . Sucking all
Bits of value for a while no . Don’t deserve custom .

pugw · 17-02-2019 8:57pm

Ever since they merged with Betfair their terms have got progressively worse! Reply to their next big marketing ploy on Twitter! You’d have thought BoyleSports would have used the issue to win some market share!
Have many independents followed suit? What about Ladbrokes! Great bet for a Saturday! I used to go into PP to do the lucky to get treble the odds and then do an each way accum on the selections + Any multiples online to get BOG.

The Tetrarch · 17-02-2019 9:05pm

They are getting ready for Cheltenham.

Brexit, betting tax, equine flu, border backstop, competition - life is tough for multinationals.

UrbanFret · 17-02-2019 9:06pm

Would not surprise me if Paddy powers and boylesports are in cahoots on this. The L15 is a very popular bet because 1 winner at 5/1 or more will return a profit. Between 1/5 odds and **** early prices the punters back is to the wall. As for football odds , a joke to say the least.

pugw · 17-02-2019 9:15pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if BOG will be next target ... it will be like the English High street firms... offer BOG only on certain races!
Will start using 365 more now after this.

4068ac1elhodqr · 17-02-2019 9:18pm

My guess would be they're creating a piggy bank for the emmerging/future US markets.

Chances are many (un-sensible and new, younger folks) are moving towards that rotten* mobile games/casino/bingo pavlova,
so traditional punters are not as attractive i.e. Costing them more to service and run a bricks 'n mortar shop, than some virtual game thingy.

*Then again a lad in Belfast this week took +€4m off Powers playing one of those funny wee games.
Suspect there is more to this story, that doesn't feature in the glossy press releases.

Happy4all · 17-02-2019 9:21pm

PP is **** when it comes to football odds. Grown tired of their unfunny ads. Personally, I avoid them.

Interesting to see will any of them come up with any decent offers for Chelts.

Gringo180 · 17-02-2019 9:28pm

Ive noticed there football odds being worse than Boylepsorts and even Ladcrooks. For instance we have a syndicate for Chelt and 7 of us do a bet each week, a treble, bet365 always pays out around 20% more than Paddys amd this is only a tenner treble. Id say Boyles pay out about 10% more.

vapor trails · 17-02-2019 9:33pm

2% betting duty has increased the costs of running shops by around €2,500 per month. The online game is at about 7% GP so when the government takes another 1% back here it really is leaving things tight. People can cheer from the rooftops when bookies get taxed but at the end of the day its the punter pays it.

PhuckHugh2 · 18-02-2019 11:10am

Gringo180 wrote: »

Ive noticed there football odds being worse than Boylepsorts and even Ladcrooks. For instance we have a syndicate for Chelt and 7 of us do a bet each week, a treble, bet365 always pays out around 20% more than Paddys amd this is only a tenner treble. Id say Boyles pay out about 10% more.

I dont bet on soccer. But is it just a case that PP have a different stance on the market and if you bet the other side with PP you would be getting more with them?
The Bet365 model is a fair bit different than PP and id imagine their soccer department is significantly better equipped to run tighter margins. If you can get on with 365 then just go with it.

On another note. I dont really get people complaining about bookies not offering specials. Firstly you have the option to just not do the bet if you dont think it is value and second there are plenty of deals/specials out there to appeal to the masses if you shop around. If you can get on with all the bookmakers then you should use whichever one offers you the best value for that event.

IAMAMORON · 18-02-2019 12:41pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Bookies bets they are. I doubt anyone in profit from just doing lucky 15s

It does allow you to have a genuine interest in 4 horse races for small stakes with the possibility of a big return. Yes, getting the 4 up will only happen every so often. However when they do click you are into seriously nice money, getting a holiday, bringing your moth out for a nice meal etc.

At Ascot last summer I did a 6 fold ew accum from the treble up. I had 3 winners and 6 places. It was all on Pallasator in the Queens Vaze, I won just under € 1,400 for a € 6-7 euro bet. I bought a new leather jacket, new pair of shoes, brought mates out for a meal and had a few free nights on the piss. It was a great laugh. If the six got up I would have won over € 90,000. The three other places lost by a combined 3 1/2 lengths. That's how far I was away from buying a Mercedes Benz. I will get over it.

You can have these bets every day and you won't miss the money. The prize is when they win and you win a junk of cash, happy days.

Don't be too deliberate or conservative in your bets if you really want to enjoy it. The concept of having a hard € 50 on 3-1 shots for the rest of your life will cost you thousands in the long run. Change things up, try new things.

PhuckHugh2 · 18-02-2019 1:14pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You can have these bets every day and you won't miss the money. The prize is when they win and you win a junk of cash, happy days.

Don't be too deliberate or conservative in your bets if you really want to enjoy it. The concept of having a hard € 50 on 3-1 shots for the rest of your life will cost you thousands in the long run. Change things up, try new things.

Im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. Someone betting win or each way singles is a lot less likely to be losing cash than someone betting Lucky "whatever you want".

The over round on a 4 fold with a 120% book on each market is about 107% and thats only the 4 fold.

PhuckHugh2 · 18-02-2019 1:16pm

Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.

NaiveMelodies · 18-02-2019 1:22pm

The idea that a bet allows you 'an interest in 4 horse races' is dangerous stuff and sweet sweet music to the bookies ears.
People are allowed be interested without having a bet!

pugw · 18-02-2019 1:36pm

The points above are fair enough but focus more on the likelihood of getting all four selections up.
The reason people are complaining here is that removing the treble the odds reduces the likelihood of being able to cover the bet regularly!
They are a good bet for people that don’t fancy investing €50’s on short priced horses at the top of the market!

Mostly Harmless · 18-02-2019 2:20pm

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.

Sure if you follow that logic then why bother betting at all as the over round cannot be beaten.

If you're getting value on the place part of an EW L15 then it is unquestionably a good bet with treble odds for one winner, the old adage of multi bets being exclusively for mugs is wrong.

18-02-2019 2:33pm

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

Just done a quick calculation the total over round for 120% markets in a lucky 15 is 742%.
For anyone unfamiliar with bookmaking this means that if a bookies takes 842euro in lucky 15s they should expect to pay out 100.
Obviously it is not an exact science but this is just talking the average market.

Not what i would consider value. But each to their own.

Maths isn't my strong point but that doesn't sound right to me.

Four of the bets are singles or 27% of the total stake in other words.

If there 20% margin on those singles then 21% of the total L15 stake is coming back, ie of 842 at least 180 on 842 staked. That's ignoring ALL the doubles, trebles and of course the four-fold (rare though it is!)

It's also ignoring double odds on one winner.

i don't think anyone would claim the L15 is professional punting, it's a bet for entertainment with a large potential return that you can dream about for an hour or so.

UrbanFret · 18-02-2019 2:57pm

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

Im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. Someone betting win or each way singles is a lot less likely to be losing cash than someone betting Lucky "whatever you want".

The over round on a 4 fold with a 120% book on each market is about 107% and thats only the 4 fold.

Yeah the bookies are full of the type of punters you mention above. The ones who can't see beyond the first 2 in the betting, backing 4/1 shots each way. They are the type of punter the bookie loves not the small L15 player who could and does some serious damage for small stakes. Only Saturday a Kerry punter scooped over 20K for a 30c L15 . No ones claiming they are easy to get up but most days a punter can break even with one winner in 4. No way the lad that's throwing hundreds on favs at short prices is.

PP butchering lucky 15s

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