Age of consent for social media accounts?

beauf · 06-04-2018 1:10am

mzungu wrote: »

Education as means to understand media more is a good idea. You won't be able to do much about the privacy data part of things, but for more everyday web browsing you could. In the past it allowed young adults to critically examine the magazines and adverts targeted towards them more. On the digital front little has changed, it is a different medium, but the same messages are being thrown at them.

I think the point is that they've removed the control (even of "everyday browsing") out of everyone's hands by doing it by nefarious means without telling you.

“Privacy means people know what they’re signing up for, in plain English, and repeatedly,” Jobs said. “Ask them. Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of your asking them. Let them know precisely what you’re going to do with their data.” - Steve Jobs

http://fortune.com/2018/03/28/steve-jobs-facebook-cambridge-analytica-privacy/

Fathom · 09-04-2018 8:54pm

Data means profits. Providing free access is not free. Is it a fair exchange?

beauf · 09-04-2018 9:19pm

Fathom wrote: »

Data means profits. Providing free access is not free. Is it a fair exchange?

Depends if they are transparent about what the deal is. Thus far they haven't been. Which suggests they know it's not right.

GDPR will make this a lot more interesting.

Fathom · 11-04-2018 2:39am

beauf wrote: »

Depends if they are transparent about what the deal is. Thus far they haven't been. Which suggests they know it's not right. GDPR will make this a lot more interesting.

Watched part of Mark Zukerburg's testimony before the US Senate today. Facebook transparency was a major issue. Only a couple Senators tried to pin him down. Each asked 4 minutes of questions. Republican. Democrat. Republican. Democrat. Ted Cruz (Republican of Texas) was posturing. Advancing his campaign agenda. Not really interested in Zukerburg's replies. What transparency? Did Cambridge Analytica sell the 80 million plus FB member data base to the Russians? Zukerburg could not answer. Zukerburg waited 2 years to let members know that member data was compromised. What does that tell you about FB? Obvious that FB lost control of data for most of their member accounts. Zukerburg admitted that he was cooperating with Special Counsel Mueller. Makes me wonder when Trump will fire Mueller? Just like Richard Nixon did during Watergate. Trump's private attorney's records have been raided and confiscated. Is the noose tightening about the president's neck?

mzungu · 12-04-2018 4:45pm

Fathom wrote: »

Watched part of Mark Zukerburg's testimony before the US Senate today. Facebook transparency was a major issue. Only a couple Senators tried to pin him down. Each asked 4 minutes of questions. Republican. Democrat. Republican. Democrat. Ted Cruz (Republican of Texas) was posturing. Advancing his campaign agenda. Not really interested in Zukerburg's replies.

What transparency? Did Cambridge Analytica sell the 80 million plus FB member data base to the Russians? Zukerburg could not answer. Zukerburg waited 2 years to let members know that member data was compromised. What does that tell you about FB? Obvious that FB lost control of data for most of their member accounts. Zukerburg admitted that he was cooperating with Special Counsel Mueller.

Makes me wonder when Trump will fire Mueller? Just like Richard Nixon did during Watergate. Trump's private attorney's records have been raided and confiscated. Is the noose tightening about the president's neck?

Exactly. The performance in front of the senate seems to have taken the heat off FB for the time being. The question is, do we really know all that much more now than we did last week? Sure, everybody that needed to look tough for their voter base got their chance to look tough. Zuckerberg did the contrite routine to appeal to the Facebook user base etc.

Was it convincing though? Personally would say at this point no. Zuckerberg wasn't exactly facing any tough questions, and besides, how many asking the questions would have the knowledge required to really go toe to toe with him?

Fathom · 12-04-2018 11:09pm

mzungu wrote: »

Exactly. The performance in front of the senate seems to have taken the heat off FB for the time being.

Obviously. FB stock rebounded. Zuckerburg now 3 billion richer. "Money talks..."

mzungu wrote: »

Zuckerberg did the contrite routine to appeal to the Facebook user base etc.

Crocodile tears.

mzungu wrote: »

Zuckerberg wasn't exactly facing any tough questions

Kamala Harris asked (former) Attorney General questions. But only had 4 minutes.

mzungu wrote: »

and besides, how many asking the questions would have the knowledge required to really go toe to toe with him?

Exactly.

mzungu · 13-04-2018 3:16pm

Fathom wrote: »

Obviously. FB stock rebounded. Zuckerburg now 3 billion richer. "Money talks..."

Crocodile tears.

Kamala Harris asked (former) Attorney General questions. But only had 4 minutes.

Exactly.

Calls for Zuckerberg to testify in front of EU lawmakers. No idea if he will do it but considering FB username is worldwide it might not look the best if he decides not to. In this case I would prefer those asking the questions to have expertise in the area, otherwise it would be meaningless PR.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-asked-to-testify-in-front-of-eu.html

Fathom · 14-04-2018 12:06am

mzungu wrote: »

Calls for Zuckerberg to testify in front of EU lawmakers. No idea if he will do it but considering FB username is worldwide it might not look the best if he decides not to.

EU has regulations. Wonder if FB broke any? As pertains to age of consent?

mzungu wrote: »

In this case I would prefer those asking the questions to have expertise in the area, otherwise it would be meaningless PR.

Same tune, 2nd verse. (US then EU)

mzungu · 15-04-2018 8:41pm

Fathom wrote: »

EU has regulations. Wonder if FB broke any? As pertains to age of consent?

Not sure on that front, but possibly the only thing broken was the spirit of the law...which won't result in anything more than a telling off!

Fathom wrote: »

Same tune, 2nd verse. (US then EU)

Stage managed so. Might as well head to the theatre, at least there are no pretences that it's real!

Fathom · 16-04-2018 2:46am

mzungu wrote: »

Stage managed so. Might as well head to the theatre, at least there are no pretences that it's real!

Zuckerburg did not suspend my disbelief.

mzungu · 18-04-2018 11:56pm

Fathom wrote: »

Zuckerburg did not suspend my disbelief.

An old speechwriter of his said that “companies over countries” was Zuckerberg's motto once upon a time.

Link: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/4/11/17221344/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-cambridge-analytica

Fathom · 19-04-2018 7:04pm

mzungu wrote: »

An old speechwriter of his said that “companies over countries” was Zuckerberg's motto once upon a time.

Corporate globalization.

mzungu · 19-04-2018 11:03pm

Fathom wrote: »

Corporate globalization.

Aye, until the next scandal about harvesting data comes around, I feel they have done enough to get through it this time. But questions remain and won't be going away any time soon.

Fathom · 21-04-2018 7:20pm

mzungu wrote: »

Aye, until the next scandal about harvesting data comes around, I feel they have done enough to get through it this time. But questions remain and won't be going away any time soon.

Predicts sweeping under carpet.

mzungu · 22-04-2018 2:31pm

Fathom wrote: »

Predicts sweeping under carpet.

Aye, however the past few weeks will have given them food for thought. They might have sailed on this time, but things do eventually reach a breaking point. Social media can easily move away from Facebook, same as Bebo and MySpace are now ghost towns. Interesting times ahead.

Fathom · 23-04-2018 6:39pm

mzungu wrote: »

Aye, however the past few weeks will have given them food for thought. They might have sailed on this time, but things do eventually reach a breaking point. Social media can easily move away from Facebook, same as Bebo and MySpace are now ghost towns. Interesting times ahead.

Social media transforming? Extinct eventually? Replaced? Or evolved? Herbert Spencer "survival of fittest?"

mzungu · 24-04-2018 11:15pm

Fathom wrote: »

Social media transforming? [/quote[
Definitely.

Fathom wrote: »

Extinct eventually? Replaced?

I doubt in my lifetime anyway!

Fathom wrote: »

Or evolved? Herbert Spencer "survival of fittest?"

This. It will evolve and with AI technology and VR it will offer new kinds of spaces. Changes coming in might be slow, but that is no harm either.

Fathom · 26-04-2018 7:57pm

mzungu wrote: »

This. It will evolve and with AI technology and VR it will offer new kinds of spaces. Changes coming in might be slow, but that is no harm either.

Occasional quantum leaps?

mzungu · 27-04-2018 5:15pm

Fathom wrote: »

Occasional quantum leaps?

It will be a slow burner I would say. Much more profitable.

Fathom · 27-04-2018 11:18pm

Reflecting. Social media accounts. Age of consent practical? Too many ways to circumvent? CYA for social media providers?

mzungu · 28-04-2018 3:08pm

Fathom wrote: »

Reflecting. Social media accounts. Age of consent practical? Too many ways to circumvent? CYA for social media providers?

To hand over data to social media companies there probably should be some kind of age limitation, however it is still unworkable. Short of doing something like credit card charging for social media accounts, there is little that can be done.

Fathom · 30-04-2018 2:23am

mzungu wrote: »

To hand over data to social media companies there probably should be some kind of age limitation, however it is still unworkable. Short of doing something like credit card charging for social media accounts, there is little that can be done.

Children pay the piper? Data for free access too? Hope piper doesn't lead them astray.

mzungu · 30-04-2018 11:12pm

Fathom wrote: »

Children pay the piper? Data for free access too? Hope piper doesn't lead them astray.

As we don't pay for the service (social media), then it follows that we will be the product!

Fathom · 02-05-2018 4:33am

No pay. No play. Products we are. No matter age of consent.

mzungu · 03-05-2018 4:54pm

Fathom wrote: »

No pay. No play. Products we are. No matter age of consent.

The proposed change of age of consent to 16 has been defeated and will stay at 13 years.

Link: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/common-sense-has-prevailed-on-digital-age-of-consent-1.3482066

AlanG · 03-05-2018 5:59pm

Anyone who thinks the likes of facebook don't know very quickly the real age of all its users needs to read up on data analytics. It is easy for some of the richest companies in the world to enforce age limits but it will cost them.

Fathom · 03-05-2018 7:44pm

AlanG wrote: »

Anyone who thinks the likes of facebook don't know very quickly the real age of all its users needs to read up on data analytics.

Big Data analytics? Black box? Customer ID tracking algorithm to tailor ads to them?

Black Swan · 15-05-2018 3:27pm

AlanG said:
Anyone who thinks the likes of facebook don't know very quickly the real age of all its users needs to read up on data analytics.

Indeed.

Fathom · 15-05-2018 5:43pm

mzungu wrote: »

The proposed change of age of consent to 16 has been defeated and will stay at 13 years. Link: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/common-sense-has-prevailed-on-digital-age-of-consent-1.3482066

Magic number?

mzungu · 15-05-2018 8:56pm

Fathom wrote: »

Magic number?

Not quite. Schools, academics, child psychologists, advocacy groups want 16 whereas companies and vested interests want the age to be 13.

Hopefully they go with 16 but it appears to be in the balance.

political analyst · 16-05-2018 9:14pm

http://www.thejournal.ie/digital-age-of-consent-3-4017307-May2018/

Basically, companies won’t be able to store and process the data of people under the age of 16.

This relates mainly to targeting and advertising to children. Big tech companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter will now be able to collect the personal data of children under this age.

Practically, it means that children won’t have full access to a large number of websites, as they won’t be able to legally consent to their terms and conditions.

(Of course, there’s nothing stopping people lying about their age to set up a social media account, which is one of the reasons groups supported a lower age)

Why don't social media organisations vet young people who want to set-up accounts on them to try to determine whether or not they're under-age?

Fathom · 18-05-2018 1:28am

political analyst wrote: »

Why don't social media organisations vet young people who want to set-up accounts on them to try to determine whether or not they're under-age?

Determine age of consent? Or age of reason?

mzungu · 18-05-2018 5:20pm

mzungu wrote: »

Not quite. Schools, academics, child psychologists, advocacy groups want 16 whereas companies and vested interests want the age to be 13.

Hopefully they go with 16 but it appears to be in the balance.

Update: they have gone with 16 after opposition TDs instead voted in favour of a Labour and Fianna Fáil amendment to set the digital age of consent at 16.

Black Swan · 19-05-2018 3:24pm

If parents or guardians are allowed to provide approval for their children to have under age 16 access to social media, to what extent to these approving parties have to surrender their rights to privacy?

mzungu · 19-05-2018 9:56pm

Black Swan wrote: »

If parents or guardians are allowed to provide approval for their children to have under age 16 access to social media, to what extent to these approving parties have to surrender their rights to privacy?

If they have signed up to it already they already have (to an extent) whether they know it or not.

Black Swan · 22-05-2018 3:07pm

Does a 16 age of consent to access social media suggest "one shoe size fits all?"

Fathom · 22-05-2018 4:31pm

mzungu wrote: »

Not quite. Schools, academics, child psychologists, advocacy groups want 16

Subjective qualitative data. Not quantitative measurements of children by age?

Black Swan wrote: »

Does a 16 age of consent to access social media suggest "one shoe size fits all?"

Individual differences not explained by a fixed age 16.

mzungu · 24-05-2018 3:06pm

Black Swan wrote: »

Does a 16 age of consent to access social media suggest "one shoe size fits all?"

It does, but then again, I don't think there can be another way. Most age limits are a "one size fits all" solution. Eg, some 18 year olds may be mature enough to drink alcohol whereas some 25 year olds are not!

mzungu · 24-05-2018 3:07pm

Fathom wrote: »

Subjective qualitative data. Not quantitative measurements of children by age?

Individual differences not explained by a fixed age 16.

Can it go any other way, though? Has anywhere else tried the above, and if so did it work?

Fathom · 26-05-2018 11:25pm

mzungu wrote: »

Can it go any other way, though? Has anywhere else tried the above, and if so did it work?

Individual differences threshold? Not likely. Too expensive. Labor intensive.

mzungu · 27-05-2018 11:01am

Fathom wrote: »

Individual differences threshold? Not likely. Too expensive. Labor intensive.

Exactly.

Fathom · 31-05-2018 10:20pm

mzungu wrote: »

Exactly.

Leads to Durkheim's alienation?

Fathom · 01-06-2018 7:40pm

Fathom wrote: »

Leads to Durkheim's alienation?

Age of consent. Mechanical solidarity?

mzungu · 02-06-2018 6:51pm

Fathom wrote: »

Leads to Durkheim's alienation?

Perhaps it already has!

mzungu · 02-06-2018 6:53pm

Fathom wrote: »

Age of consent. Mechanical solidarity?

Can an individualist society have mechanical solidarity?

Fathom · 04-06-2018 6:54pm

mzungu wrote: »

Can an individualist society have mechanical solidarity?

If it's a fully organized, modern, or post-modern "society," answer: Yes. Peter Blau's structural differentiation may inform here. Highly SD societies evidence high levels of mechanical solidarity. Low levels of SD are more communal and Organic (Durkheim).

mzungu · 04-06-2018 9:20pm

Fathom wrote: »

If it's a fully organized, modern, or post-modern "society," answer: Yes. Peter Blau's structural differentiation may inform here. Highly SD societies evidence high levels of mechanical solidarity. Low levels of SD are more communal and Organic (Durkheim).

Individualism working in tandem with mechanical solidarity meaning both compliment each other as opposed to being strictly one or the other?

Fathom · 05-06-2018 9:52pm

mzungu wrote: »

Individualism working in tandem with mechanical solidarity meaning both compliment each other as opposed to being strictly one or the other?

Naturally. Practically. Multi-variate differences prevail. Jacques Derrida suggested this when he deconstructed dichotomies (e.g., Organic vs Mechanical). Hence, an age of consent threshold for all was too simplistic and unnatural. Groups. Organizations. Counties. Nations. Etc. Holds for all but the individual unit of analysis.

mzungu · 06-06-2018 5:43pm

Fathom wrote: »

Naturally. Practically. Multi-variate differences prevail. Jacques Derrida suggested this when he deconstructed dichotomies (e.g., Organic vs Mechanical). Hence, an age of consent threshold for all was too simplistic and unnatural. Groups. Organizations. Counties. Nations. Etc. Holds for all but the individual unit of analysis.

Is the arbitrary digital age limit (well, one that is arrived at with some solid theoretical basis) still not the best way to go? Or abandonment on digital age of consent for companies gathering information the option that fits with the reality on the ground?

Black Swan · 08-06-2018 11:19pm

mzungu wrote: »

Is the arbitrary digital age limit (well, one that is arrived at with some solid theoretical basis) still not the best way to go?

Methinks that more research is needed, and such research should be ongoing to build a longitudinal foundation for meta-analysis overtime.

mzungu wrote: »

Or abandonment on digital age of consent for companies gathering information the option that fits with the reality on the ground?

Not sure that "abandonment on the digital age of consent" given the profit-motive driving most company decisions is the best way to go. Some regulation may be needed, but setting the threshold is problematic indeed.

Age of consent for social media accounts?

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