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Is the Church Collection dead?

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  • 18-02-2019 4:42pm
    #1
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭


    With recent coverage of contactless payments being introduced in a number of Catholic parishes on a trial basis, is the weekly church collection dead (or on its deathbed?)
    In my church (non-Catholic) the majority of church income is now by standing order. If you add the weekly envelope scheme to that, its about 95% of all income

    What's your view? A good thing or a bad thing?


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    #2
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,295 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    We still have the basket collection in our local church


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    #3
    10fathoms
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭10fathoms


    I think the going contactless idea really brings home the whole idea of religion in general....


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    #4
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    homer911 wrote: »
    With recent coverage of contactless payments being introduced in a number of Catholic parishes on a trial basis, is the weekly church collection dead (or on its deathbed?)
    In my church (non-Catholic) the majority of church income is now by standing order. If you add the weekly envelope scheme to that, its about 95% of all income
    I would have thought that all churches would push for this, to have names attached to the collection (which you wouldn't have with basket collections), to be able to claim back the tax on theses donations at the end of the year.


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    #5
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    mdebets wrote: »
    I would have thought that all churches would push for this, to have names attached to the collection (which you wouldn't have with basket collections), to be able to claim back the tax on theses donations at the end of the year.
    ??? The Irish tax code does not allow for this.


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    #6
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    ??? The Irish tax code does not allow for this.
    Did this change recently (I've been out of Ireland a few years now)? In the past, my church in Dublin (non Catholic) added up all named donations of the last year and when it passed a threshold (around 200€) there was a form to be filled for Revenue, which then gave the church back the income tax we had paid on these donations.


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    #7
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    Found it on Revenue's website
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/charities-and-sports-bodies/charitable-donation-scheme/index.aspx


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    #8
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    You're quite right.

    And yet, looking through the list of approved participants on the Revenue's website, there seem to be relatively few parishes (and most of those are CofI parishes). I wonder is it that most parishes simply haven't cottoned on to the possibilities this offers yet, or whether there is some technical or administrative requirement for participating that most parishes are unable to satisy?


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    #9
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    You're quite right.

    And yet, looking through the list of approved participants on the Revenue's website, there seem to be relatively few parishes (and most of those are CofI parishes). I wonder is it that most parishes simply haven't cottoned on to the possibilities this offers yet, or whether there is some technical or administrative requirement for participating that most parishes are unable to satisy?
    But the dioceses themselves are on the list, so that should cover the donations to parishes.


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    #10
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    homer911 wrote: »
    contactless payments being introduced in a number of Catholic parishes on a trial basis
    Grand. All we need now is contactless priests. But I hear there is a summit currently working on that idea in the Vatican.


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    #11
    Melodeon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭Melodeon


    mdebets wrote: »
    But the dioceses themselves are on the list, so that should cover the donations to parishes.

    I'm pretty sure the tax refund only applies to funds donated by a specific taxpayer, hence the use of envelopes with an identifier (usually a number) on it.


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    #12
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Melodeon wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure the tax refund only applies to funds donated by a specific taxpayer, hence the use of envelopes with an identifier (usually a number) on it.
    The numbered envelopes go back a long way, well before the possiblity of claiming tax refunds. But, then, parishes might have reasons for wanting to know who their supporters were that have nothing to do with tax.


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    #13
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    You're quite right.

    And yet, looking through the list of approved participants on the Revenue's website, there seem to be relatively few parishes (and most of those are CofI parishes). I wonder is it that most parishes simply haven't cottoned on to the possibilities this offers yet, or whether there is some technical or administrative requirement for participating that most parishes are unable to satisy?
    I see Reg Charity number 5289, Carmelite Convent Wicklow, is closed and due to go up for sale.
    Prime development land. I wonder how that works? Can they take the profits of the sale tax free?


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    #14
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    For the record..
    This is the BBC coverage of the Irish trial
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47252302
    This is the BBC coverage of the Church of England trial
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-46950562

    (only quoting BBC as they covered both stories)

    This is the recent story about the Waterford diocese being unable to pay priests salaries..
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/waterford-diocese-unable-to-pay-priests-christmas-wages-due-to-major-decrease-in-donations-905346.html

    The COE "service" seems more user friendly

    The UK Gift aid scheme works differently to the Irish scheme but still requires the identification of the donor for the collection of tax information - there seems to be no minimum cumulative annual value
    In Ireland, the Data Protection Commissioner has forbidden charities from "holding" PPSNs but donors can sign up once for 3 years (?) rather than have to submit their details annually.
    Many churches are claiming tax credits under the umbrella registration of the diocese/presbytery so wont appear as individual charities on the revenue's register


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    #15
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Melodeon wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure the tax refund only applies to funds donated by a specific taxpayer, hence the use of envelopes with an identifier (usually a number) on it.
    Not only that, but the donor would have to sign the specific revenue form when making the donation, so that the rebate could be accessed by the "charity".

    As can be seen from the list, a lot of these "charities" are fairly wealthy semi-private schools and the donation might be a substantial one off "voluntary" contribution sought by the school or college.


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    #16
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    recedite wrote: »
    I see Reg Charity number 5289, Carmelite Convent Wicklow, is closed and due to go up for sale.
    Prime development land. I wonder how that works? Can they take the profits of the sale tax free?
    The procees of the sale, yes. But they have to apply them to their charitable purposes.


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    #17
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    Has anyone out there tried: https://www.memotech.ie/credit-card-payment/contactless-charity-donation-box/


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