'Trial of four-day working week an ‘unmitigated success’ for employees’ health'

20-07-2018 4:56pm #1

Over on The Irish Times this afternoon is the result of a study in New Zealand that has worked out very well for the employer as well as the employeed. Well worth reading.

The Irish Times: Trial of four-day working week an ‘unmitigated success’ for employees’ health: Reduced hours for same pay cut stress levels and boosted commitment

The New Zealand company behind a landmark trial of a four-day working week has concluded it was an unmitigated success, with 78 per cent of employees feeling they were able to successfully manage their work-life balance, an increase of 24 per cent.

Two-hundred-and-forty staff at Perpetual Guardian, a company which manages trusts, wills and estate planning, trialled a four-day working week over March and April, working four, eight-hour days but getting paid for five.

Academics studied the trial before, during and after its implementation, collecting qualitative and quantitative data.

Perpetual Guardian founder Andrew Barnes came up with the idea in an attempt to give his employees better work-life balance, and help them focus on the business whilst in the office on company time, and manage life and home commitments on their extra day off...

Our two-day weekend is a relatively new phenomenon. According to this very informative article in The Atlantic, because workers in Britain towards the end of the 19th century frequently missed Mondays from work (due to overdoing things on Sunday), factory owners there compromised and gave them a half day on Saturday on condition they arrive in work every Monday. Furthermore, the same article says this 1.5 day weekend became a two-day weekend in the US in 1908 for the first time: Where the Five-Day Workweek Came From
It's a relatively new invention—is it time to shave another day off?

Can you see a four-day working week replacing the five-day working week? If so, how soon? I'd say within 20 years, although it could probably happen now in many jobs. Indeed the 3-day working week that Carlos Slim proposed could possibly happen now in some sectors.

Malayalam · 20-07-2018 5:26pm

Yes, within 20 years

It's an essential idea. Hope it takes a lot less long than 20 years to implement. Would solve so many problems, from stress, ill health, boredom, lack of family time, lack of motivation, under-employment due to automation and would provide people with a semblance of what a normal life should be like. Bank holidays every weekend..yay!

Sgt Hartman · 20-07-2018 5:35pm

From what I see, especially in my own place they want to do away with weekends altogether and bring in 5 over 7 weeks ie you would have 2 days off at random points of the week instead of just Saturday and Sunday. The last recession has seriously caused an erosion in the rights of a huge amount of workers in many sectors. I would love to see it happening but I just can't see a 4 day working week any time soon

_Kaiser_ · 20-07-2018 5:44pm

Not at all

From the article...

working four, eight-hour days but getting paid for five

This would be the key I reckon, but I can't see it happening here. Many employers are already unwilling/reluctant to pay for overtime that they pressure staff into doing, and most employees couldn't manage on the less money (don't forget that "being off" means extra electricity, gas/oil etc)

I work in a job where most of the team I manage is outside of Ireland and the technology is there to support the ability for me to work effectively from anywhere really (same with a lot of my peers) - yet our bosses still feel that if you're not sitting at a desk in the office 8 hours a day, you're on the doss (even though I generally get MORE done without the time lost or tiredness of dealing with a commute first).

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-07-2018 5:48pm

I cant see how we would expect employers to pay for 5. The other option is that wages grow 25% but the problem there is that as wages grow so does rent.

Mrs OBumble · 20-07-2018 5:51pm

I know a few people who alternate 3 and 5 day weeks .... but when they're working its 12 hours shifts.

Personally i prefer 5 8 hour days.

_Dara_ · 20-07-2018 6:00pm

I assumed that four-day weeks would mean longer days (10 hour as opposed to 8 hour). I can’t see employers getting on board with fewer hours for the same pay.

Jack Moore · 20-07-2018 6:02pm

I had a job working Wed - Saturday it was lovley.

Harry Palmr · 20-07-2018 6:05pm

I think more flexibility rather than fewer hours would be a help, instead of five contiguous days why not break it up with an agreed Wednesday off in return for a Saturday on? As an example.

Skuxx · 20-07-2018 6:06pm

At the moment I work 12 days on 2 days off..... The thought of a 4 day work week!! :rolleyes:

Fann Linn · 20-07-2018 6:07pm

I can just imagine the howls in IBEC HQ right now.

Twenty Grand · 20-07-2018 6:08pm

Jack Moore wrote: »

I had a job working Wed - Saturday it was lovley.

I loved working weekends. No traffic on the commute, no hassle getting around, and places were empty on my days off. Brilliant.

FishOnABike · 20-07-2018 6:11pm

I used to wok a five day week two shift, alternating 8am to 4pm and 4pm to midnight with the shift changeover mid week. Finishing at midnight and being back in for 8am wasn't great but loved the long changeover being off from 4pm one day to 4pm the next day. I could get so much family / personal things done in that 24 hours.

I'd happly work a 4 day x 10 hour week to have three family / personal days each week.

The Backwards Man · 20-07-2018 6:12pm

Have you ever seen a fox take a three day weekend or a bee working flexi-time?

Live, horse, and you'll get oats.

Blazer · 20-07-2018 6:14pm

Not within the next 20 years

I've worked a 5 day week for nearly 20 years and I switched last year to a 3x 12 hour weekend shift which alternates between a day shift, 2 mid-shifts and a night shift.
Not only did I gain 2 extra days off a week but around a 30% increase in wages.
For something I never would have considered in the past I find a 3 day working week to be absolutely fantastic and would highly recommend it to everyone I meet.
Its definitely the best career move I've made so far

Uriel. · 20-07-2018 6:38pm

I'd be well on board for a 4 day week at 10 hrs per day.
Having 3 full days off is great and give a real chance to get some down time. Plus, depending on your situation, you'd save additional hours by having one less day of commuting

tritium · 20-07-2018 7:00pm

Uriel. wrote: »

I'd be well on board for a 4 day week at 10 hrs per day.
Having 3 full days off is great and give a real chance to get some down time. Plus, depending on your situation, you'd save additional hours by having one less day of commuting

I’d be all for this. Unfortunately in spite of in theory doing the standard 40/5 setup I never actually get away with “only” 8 hour days - my contract helpfully just tells me that if my work requires more time I can suck it up for free

Adyx · 20-07-2018 10:43pm

I work 4 days a week and 2 of those days I work whatever hours I need to. I do get paid hourly but I could end up working up to 12 hours some days. Honestly, 3 days off a week is amazing, and the 3 days I have off can vary so my week is broken up.

20-07-2018 11:08pm

Not within the next 20 years

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I cant see how we would expect employers to pay for 5. The other option is that wages grow 25% but the problem there is that as wages grow so does rent.

From the article it seems that when deciding on working four days, a fundamental of the design was that there could not be reduced productivity: they did in 4 days what they were doing in 5 days. That, for me, makes this interesting.

Dr Helen Delaney, a senior lecturer at the University of Auckland Business School, said employees’ motivation and commitment to work increased because they were included in the planning of the experiment, and played a key role in designing how the four-day week would be managed so as not to negatively impact productivity.

“Employees designed a number of innovations and initiatives to work in a more productive and efficient manner, from automating manual processes to reducing or eliminating non work-related internet usage,” said Delaney.

I know if my having a four-day week depended upon working more efficiently in those four days, I would have a huge incentive to work more efficiently.

See also Parkinson's Law:

Parkinson's law is the adage that "work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion". It is sometimes applied to the growth of bureaucracy in an organization...

20-07-2018 11:15pm

Not within the next 20 years

Blazer wrote: »

I've worked a 5 day week for nearly 20 years and I switched last year to a 3x 12 hour weekend shift which alternates between a day shift, 2 mid-shifts and a night shift.
Not only did I gain 2 extra days off a week but around a 30% increase in wages.
For something I never would have considered in the past I find a 3 day working week to be absolutely fantastic and would highly recommend it to everyone I meet.
Its definitely the best career move I've made so far

Interesting. Was the salary increase related to the unsociable hours, or was there a verifiable increase in your productivity in the shorter week? (did you move from a 40-hour week to a 36-hour week?)

I used to work nights part time while in uni years ago and the novelty and extra money - I used to do 16 hours shifts (4pm-8am every Friday/Saturday) - was welcome. However, I wouldn't like the idea of missing out on family life by working nights/sleeping during the day as a permanent change. A bit of a zombie land for me anyway.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-07-2018 11:59pm

Shorter working hours work better, otherwise people dial down the effort because the work day is too long to keep working hard.

https://theweek.com/articles/454364/what-happened-sixhour-workday

Studies over the last half century have shown that productivity caps out at eight hours for manual laborers, and even less for "knowledge workers" — those who sit at desks and deal with words and data. These workers generally only churn out about five to six "good, productive hours of hard mental work" a day, says Sara Robinson in Salon. "After six hours, all [the boss has] really got left is a butt in a chair."

Blazer · 21-07-2018 12:23am

Not within the next 20 years

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting. Was the salary increase related to the unsociable hours, or was there a verifiable increase in your productivity in the shorter week? (did you move from a 40-hour week to a 36-hour week?)

I used to work nights part time while in uni years ago and the novelty and extra money - I used to do 16 hours shifts (4pm-8am every Friday/Saturday) - was welcome. However, I wouldn't like the idea of missing out on family life by working nights/sleeping during the day as a permanent change. A bit of a zombie land for me anyway.

I moved from a 40 hour week to a 36 hour week. I changed companies and my job function within IT and got a payrise also along with a shift allowance.
The bonus is I don't use my holiday's anymore for a day off here to service the car or a day off to take the kids to an appointment which means I have more holidays actually for holidays

Not only that but I also get bonus hours for bank holidays etc and other public holidays so for the first time in 20 years I actually have more holidays than I know what to do with

I do find that the weekends are a writeoff in that its basically work/eat/sleep depending on what shift I'm on but having Mon-Thursday off more than balances it out...even the missus have commented that I'm way more relaxed since I made the change.

NinetyTwoTeam · 21-07-2018 1:16am

I think it would be class if it was done in a way that every week you rotated what extra day you got off in addition to sat and sun each week.

so week 1 mon off, week 2 Tues off, etc

every 4 weeks you'd have a four day weekend.

but i think industries which are project based find it easier to work when a team of people are working together without people dropping in and out and having to communicate around that all the time

Annasopra · 21-07-2018 7:29am

Yes, within 20 years

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I think more flexibility rather than fewer hours would be a help, instead of five contiguous days why not break it up with an agreed Wednesday off in return for a Saturday on? As an example.

Would help who?

marklazarcovic · 21-07-2018 8:12am

I'd happily work 38-40 hours in 4 days to have 3 days off every week, consecutive days only though. Would be class.

Tigerandahalf · 21-07-2018 8:35am

The 4 day week would certainly reduce the carbon footprint of commuters going into work. It might mean less money for workers but that wouldn't be an issue as long as the big costs like housing, food and energy were kept in check.

We saw in the recession that the world still went by even though people had much less money in their pockets. Costs just had to drop, ones that were dependent on workers' pay anyway.

I think flexi time would be a bigger benefit to workers. It is in use across the public sector and private as well and would cost employers very little especially in bigger organisations. Some days employers need you to work an extra hour or two. Instead of them having to pay overtime let the employee bank the hours so they can take off a full day at a later stage. That would allow the employee to do the various errands that build up over a month.

In Australia there is also something called long service leave where if you are with an employer for 10 years you are entitled to 2 calendar months off paid leave. It is a wonderful idea that has benefits for both employer and employee. I met 2 brothers in their 50s while travelling who told me about it and I thought it was a great thing to recharge the batteries and reflect rather than jacking in your job.

Edit: actually in the states of Adelaide and the NT you are entitled to 13 weeks off.
Isn't that a sweet deal for the worker. Travel plans ahoy!

Balanadan · 21-07-2018 8:38am

I hope this won't be implemented. I'd be bored with an extra 3 days off. What would you even do?

The One Doctor · 21-07-2018 9:14am

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Have you ever seen a fox take a three day weekend or a bee working flexi-time?

Live, horse, and you'll get oats.

We're not foxes. Or bees.

Neyite · 21-07-2018 9:40am

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I'd happily work 38-40 hours in 4 days to have 3 days off every week, consecutive days only though. Would be class.

I would too.

I used to work somewhere that did a 4 day week. You'd do longer hours and a half hour lunch break instead and one week in every 4 was a 5 day week to make the hours up to full time but it worked really well. Days off were usually consecutive, for example, three midweek days off, or Sat& Sun, and once in the rotation you'd get a long weekend.

It was one of a couple sample rosters the management put to staff and let them choose and everyone opted for this one. It fitted the business requirements and maximised staff leisure time as well.

21-07-2018 9:54am

How many nurses approaching 50 sing the praises of their 13 hour days? They are burned out and have to take early retirement.

Billy86 · 21-07-2018 10:28am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I work in a job where most of the team I manage is outside of Ireland and the technology is there to support the ability for me to work effectively from anywhere really (same with a lot of my peers) - yet our bosses still feel that if you're not sitting at a desk in the office 8 hours a day, you're on the doss (even though I generally get MORE done without the time lost or tiredness of dealing with a commute first).

That mindset really irritates me. I do think there is something to be said for being in the office at least 1-2 times a week to keep teams familiar with each other beyond direct work emails, calls, etc and currently don't have the luxury of the option to work from home, but have in previous jobs and found if I either had a million little things to do or one big task that required a good deal of thought before taking each step, that working from home I was ridiculously more efficient.

That lack of trust of employees can also be pretty toxic. I've had jobs where showing up at 9:01am meant a berating about being late (or in one job, showing up at 8:46am... despite the fact the work day only started at 9am), by the same manager who would then kind of mope around your desk at 4.30pm trying to convince you to stay late without any pay for it (not without overtime... without any pay or time in lieu) only to promptly but politely being told to f*** off. Even though my contract does not have flexi time and is 9-5, my current employer doesn't mind if I'm in anywhere before 9.30am and as a result I tend to stay in long after 5.30pm up to 2-3 times a week despite only being asked to do so once in my 21 months there. They probably get a full free day out of me a month because of this or close to it, so probably a free two weeks worth of work over the course of a year.

Given all the work that has gone into showing that employees do better with some autonomy, and the fact that it is shown in so many companies utilising these approaches, it really does get under my skin seeing employers still needlessly adopting the mindset that their staff are essentially a bunch of misbehaving school children and need to be treated as such.

'Trial of four-day working week an ‘unmitigated success’ for employees’ health'

Can you see a 4-day working week replacing a five-day working week? 96 votes

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