EU/IMF loan package charges 6%

keno-daytrader · 24-11-2010 8:12pm #1

24 November 2010 18:36:59 (IR) Irish PM Cowen: expect the EU/IMF loan package to charge approx 6% interest rate; reiterates package not yet finalized

How on earth can we afford to pay these kind of interest payments?

Blatter · 24-11-2010 8:14pm

keno-daytrader wrote: »

24 November 2010 18:36:59 (IR) Irish PM Cowen: expect the EU/IMF loan package to charge approx 6% interest rate; reiterates package not yet finalized

How on earth can we afford to pay these kind of interest payments?

We can't. Simple as.

RichardAnd · 24-11-2010 8:14pm

We can't and the EU know this. I firmly believe that the EU agenda is to relegate Ireland to the economic sin bin and let us languish in debt servitude for X amount of years.

This is the "Union" we joined all those years ago.

123balltv · 24-11-2010 8:15pm

The EU have us by the balls

LovelyHurling · 24-11-2010 8:16pm

Holy crap.
I don't know what to say... who sets this rate? Does a chosen rate generally underscore some level of confidence, or lack of confidence in our recovery?

Why would they saddle us with such a high rate unless they think we can repay - after all our recovery is in their best interests? Puzzling

PixelTrawler · 24-11-2010 8:18pm

keno-daytrader wrote: »

24 November 2010 18:36:59 (IR) Irish PM Cowen: expect the EU/IMF loan package to charge approx 6% interest rate; reiterates package not yet finalized

How on earth can we afford to pay these kind of interest payments?

Is there a link for this story?

Scary stuff if true...

Mister men · 24-11-2010 8:18pm

I makes no difference if it 6% or 3% we are screwed if we take it either way.

Sir Oxman · 24-11-2010 8:18pm

123balltv wrote: »

The EU have us by the balls

No.
They do not.

They only do if this criminal govt remain in power.

OP - where is your source for this?

KyussBishop · 24-11-2010 8:20pm

Does this leave us with much other option than defaulting? It seems an inevitability down the line, why not now instead of later?

We can at least threaten it now, to get more favorable terms in the bailout?

EDIT:

gambiaman wrote: »

No.
They do not.

They only do if this criminal govt remain in power.

Ya agreed; once the cúnts in power are gone, we could have Europe by the balls by threatening destabilization of the Euro through defaulting, as far as I can see.

From what I can tell, a large percentage of our debt is actually risk taken by banks from Europe, so why the fúck should we be burdened with that? (if I'm wrong on this, I'd really like hear what the actual case is)

Kev_ps3 · 24-11-2010 8:21pm

Default of the banks and let them sort out Spain and Portugal:mad:
And leave the dam EU:mad:

123balltv · 24-11-2010 8:22pm

gambiaman wrote: »

No.
They do not.

They only do if this criminal govt remain in power.

well God help us get them out now this little Island is out of control

later12 · 24-11-2010 8:22pm

Mister men wrote: »

I makes no difference if it 6% or 3% we are screwed if we take it either way.

Unfortunately that's incorrect.

It made an enormous difference, that's it, we have just been waltzed out the doors of the last chance saloon by Brian Cowen.

Sir Oxman · 24-11-2010 8:23pm

If true, get out onto the streets and stay there until they are gone.

RichardAnd · 24-11-2010 8:23pm

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Default of the banks and let them sort out Spain and Portugal:mad:
And leave the dam EU:mad:

The EU most likely won't see the close of this decade. Europeans don't get along, the never have and never will.

Blatter · 24-11-2010 8:27pm

Blatter · 24-11-2010 8:28pm

Just to reiterate, this is a quote from Brian Cowen on RTE news tonight, in response to a question on the possible rate of interest on any package.

"It's in the region of 6 percent,"

keno-daytrader · 24-11-2010 8:29pm

Solyad wrote: »

Is there a link for this story?

Scary stuff if true...

This comes off my newswire service, I believe he said it on six one news tonight during an interview.

later12 · 24-11-2010 8:32pm

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Just to reiterate, this is a quote from Brian Cowen on RTE news tonight, in response to a question on the possible rate of interest on any package.

That probably means from 5.7% to 6% or, more unlikely, larger than 6%.

This is still higher than the upper limit of what we could reasonably afford to repay, which was, at best, 5%.

Bob_Latchford · 24-11-2010 8:33pm

Panelists on VB the othe day said 6-4-6.7%

I would suggest "in the region of" translates to "north of 6 but less than 7"

later12 · 24-11-2010 8:34pm

Bob_Latchford wrote: »

Panelists on VB the othe day said 6-4-6.7%

I would suggest "in the region of" translates to "north of 6 but less than 7"

Who were the panelists?

Anything north of 6% would be beyond a joke, it would be a severely daunting prospect for anyone interested in the future of our country.

Bob_Latchford · 24-11-2010 8:35pm

Isnt this just spooking the markets even more? everyone is going to ask why is Greece 5 and Ireland in region of 6 :mad:

Blatter · 24-11-2010 8:35pm

later10 wrote: »

That probably means from 5.7% to 6% or, more unlikely, larger than 6%.

This is still higher than the upper limit of what we could reasonably afford to repay, which was, at best, 5%.

I think Cowen would have said ''in the region of 5% then, they seem to try to put a positive spin on everything.

As another poster said, the guys on VB last night expected it to be north of 6%.

PixelTrawler · 24-11-2010 8:36pm

keno-daytrader wrote: »

This comes off my newswire service, I believe he said it on six one news tonight during an interview.

jaysus we're screwed... 6%

Bob_Latchford · 24-11-2010 8:37pm

later10 wrote: »

Who were the panelists?

Anything north of 6% would be beyond a joke, it would be a severely daunting prospect for anyone interested in the future of our country.

dont know their names one is on quite often and is very irate and grumpy about the whole thing

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne&tv3_preview=&video=29656

Its 6mins in

CamperMan · 24-11-2010 8:39pm

6% interest rate, I am crap at maths, so, how much would Ireland have to pay back each year on a €80 billion loan??

kippy · 24-11-2010 8:39pm

123balltv wrote: »

The EU have us by the balls

We have done ourselves by the balls.
Anyone who can't see this hasn't a clue to be honest.

later12 · 24-11-2010 8:42pm

CamperMan wrote: »

6% interest rate, I am crap at maths, so, how much would Ireland have to pay back each year on a €80 billion loan??

It's not entirely as straightforward as that but in the region of 5 billion euros/ yr in interest - if that 85 billion is the correct figure

unit 1 · 24-11-2010 8:46pm

Bob_Latchford wrote: »

dont know their names one is on quite often and is very irate and grumpy about the whole thing

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne&tv3_preview=&video=29656

Its 6mins in

His name is Paul Sommerville and he sounds as mad as I feel. He comes across as very knowledgeable about the markets etc, and has a passion and conviction that should scare anybody that cares about our country.:mad:

kippy · 24-11-2010 8:47pm

later10 wrote: »

It's not entirely as straightforward as that but in the region of 5 billion euros/ yr in interest - if that 85 billion is the correct figure

Yep, its not as straightforward as that. Mainly because we (the state) is exposed to further debts we have taken up via NAMA and the banks we will soon now own as well as whatever soverign debt we currently hold.
We are up to our oxters in soverign (and now banking) debt as a result of years of mismanagement, poor regulation and a general lax attitude to ineptitude in certain areas of the public and private sector.
We're probably gonna pull the Euro down with us and cause untold harm to the EU in general over the next few years.
How fast the once mighty have fallen.

The only part of this we can blame on the EU is them not putting the brakes on us sooner - and if they did that they'd be criticised as well.

later12 · 24-11-2010 8:52pm

By the way, seeing as how they now seem to know the interest rate - surely they have also arrived at a figure for the loan.

No idiot would agree to the terms and the volume of a loan from a bank or any financial institution based on the interest rate alone - surely they have decided on this 6% (in the region thereof) figure, after deciding on a bailout figure - so what is it? Why are they not telling us? It's all very well telling us the rate but how much are we borrowing at this rate? That is the central issue.

Bob_Latchford · 24-11-2010 8:53pm

unit 1 wrote: »

His name is Paul Sommerville and he sounds as mad as I feel. He comes across as very knowledgeable about the markets etc, and has a passion and conviction that should scare anybody that cares about our country.:mad:

He is best one on VBs panel, sounds at the end of hes tether with what ihes seeing and hearing

Blatter · 24-11-2010 8:56pm

later10 wrote: »

By the way, seeing as how they now seem to know the interest rate - surely they have also arrived at a figure for the loan.

No idiot would agree to the terms and the volume of a loan from a bank or any financial institution based on the interest rate alone - surely they have decided on this 6% (in the region thereof) figure, after deciding on a bailout figure - so what is it? Why are they not telling us? It's all very well telling us the rate but how much are we borrowing at this rate? That is the central issue.

€85 Billion, according to RTE news. Yesterday's news really.

Welease · 24-11-2010 9:01pm

123balltv wrote: »

The EU have us by the balls

There is a school of thought that says the exact opposite..

If we don't bailout the Irish banks (and repay the bondholders and foreign banks), then there will be a colossal ripple effect across the EU which could/will cause those foreign banks to fail...

We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by demanding preferential rates IF we decide to own and fix the problem.. Otherwise we let nature take it's course, and Ireland will be the least of the EU's problem.

Bob_Latchford · 24-11-2010 9:05pm

Just googling Paul Summerville. Here he is on Marion Finucane show from 6th November saying terms will be worse for Ireland than Greece and in region of 6%

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-06111047m36smfs1.mp3

42mins. Hes mad as hell and hes not going to take it any more

later12 · 24-11-2010 9:06pm

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

€85 Billion, according to RTE news. Yesterday's news really.

Yes, of course; you are referring to this article; what I am saying is that there has been no formal announcement of any final figure. Brian Cowen gave a rough figure but we have had no formal announcement, and RTE reporting on leaks or comments is simply not good enough - the public need to be kept directly informed.

steamengine · 24-11-2010 9:06pm

unit 1 wrote: »

His name is Paul Sommerville and he sounds as mad as I feel. He comes across as very knowledgeable about the markets etc, and has a passion and conviction that should scare anybody that cares about our country.:mad:

Matt Cooper was interviewing Brian Lenihan on Today FM just before 5.30 this evening, telling him basically PS above and others had a different take on matters regarding negotiation of the present bail-out. MC pointed out to BL that several economists had been proved correct with their previous pessimistic predictions, particularly the underestimated figures to buffer the banks, and, maybe they could also be correct now and why doesn't he listen to them. Anyway the upshot of it was that PS and others are welcome to come in to the Dept of Finance to discuss it with him !!!

Sir Oxman · 24-11-2010 9:16pm

steamengine wrote: »

Matt Cooper was interviewing Brian Lenihan on Today FM just before 5.30 this evening, telling him basically PS above and others had a different take on matters regarding negotiation of the present bail-out. MC pointed out to BL that several economists had been proved correct with their previous pessimistic predictions, particularly the underestimated figures to buffer the banks, and, maybe they could also be correct now and why doesn't he listen to them. Anyway the upshot of it was that PS and others are welcome to come in to the Dept of Finance to discuss it with him !!!

Why didn't the *&^%$^&* MoF have a select group of these experts in negotiating on the country's behalf?
The above was a softsoap as the deal is almost done.

Absurdum · 24-11-2010 9:19pm

time for the nuclear option, they have a hell of a lot more to lose than we do

mike65 · 24-11-2010 9:22pm

If it is 6% then the deal will have to be renegotiated and the fcuktards in Brussels/New York told whats good for them. Do they actually want to kill this country with what that implies for the whole eurozone?

Icepick · 24-11-2010 9:28pm

RichardAnd wrote: »

We can't and the EU know this. I firmly believe that the EU agenda is to relegate Ireland to the economic sin bin and let us languish in debt servitude for X amount of years.

This is the "Union" we joined all those years ago.

The EU countries would have to pay off the loan if Ireland defaults. So it's a complete opposite to what you anti-EU protesters think.
And I guess you also haven't objected to the billions the EU has poured into Ireland over the years.

c montgomery · 24-11-2010 9:39pm

Muppits the lot of them.

Paying 6% + to the EU when in reality they are screwing us.

The german banks and the EU are making a killing here. They can borrow on the bond market for 2.5% and then turn around to ireland and lend the same bond to ireland for 6%. Its the biggest swindle ever, and they have the cheek to say that their the ones doing us the favour.

If i could get 6% apr from the government they could have all my savings for the next few years. Maybe up to 5 years. I know the national solaradity bond is offering up to 41% after taxes and charges over 10 years but if i could get 6% tax free of course id give it to them.

mike65 · 24-11-2010 9:43pm

Okay stop panicking

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6AN28B20101124

(Corrects Prime Minister's comments after spokesman said Brian Cowen was referring to previous bond auctions not a possible rate for an IMF/EU loan)

DUBLIN Nov 24 (Reuters) - Ireland has paid around 6 percent in previous bond auctions, its prime minister said on Wednesday.

Brian Cowen gave the figure in an interview on state broadcaster RTE. "It's in the region of 6 percent," said Cowen.

A spokesman said later he had been referring to the rate paid on recent Irish bond issues, not the possible rate of interest on any rescue package from the IMF or EU.

c montgomery · 24-11-2010 9:44pm

Icepick wrote: »

The EU countries would have to pay off the loan if Ireland defaults. So it's a complete opposite of what you anti-EU protesters think.
And I guess you also haven't objected to the billions the EU has poured into Ireland over the years.

Everything the EU gave over the years can be offset against the fishing rights that we gave up all those years ago. Fishing was a huge industry in ireland 30 years ago, while still being completly underdeveloped. Now its all but gone while french and spanish supertrawlers plunder our seas.

dasdog · 24-11-2010 9:48pm

I'm thinking they know we will default at some point but this "bailout" will give them time to plan a second tier Euro zone/revert to currency 2.0 for the financially dysfunctional countries. They will have to start printing more € at some stage but perhaps this is not the time to be doing that.

Attempting to balance the books with absolute savage cut's/tax increases and threatening to press the nuclear button may be the quickest way for Ireland to get back on it's feet. Share the pain Europe/UK, your banks were reckless lending to Anglo etc. The feckless, spineless gombeens have played the recovery game since 2008 and the more they play the deeper the hole gets. If some of the figures being mentioned are true we are heading to African nation at the mercy of creditors territory.

irishh_bob · 24-11-2010 9:54pm

123balltv wrote: »

The EU have us by the balls

no , the EU has a gun to our head but we have a grenade in our hands , we can threaten to default and sunsequently bring down the whole european banking system unless they give us a bailout ( loan ) at 1%

being saddled with the mortgage ( at 7% ) is merley postponing default and a bank run for another day , possibley in a year or two

stakey · 24-11-2010 9:54pm

Someone in the know might be able to clarify this but as I understand it Irish banks were borrowing from the ECB at 1%. So now we're paying 6% for the €85 billion we've just lumped on our economy... :mad:

later12 · 24-11-2010 9:56pm

stakey wrote: »

Someone in the know might be able to clarify this but as I understand it Irish banks were borrowing from the ECB at 1%. So now we're paying 6% for the €85 billion we've just lumped on our economy... :mad:

That was emergency funding, not a long term plan. (incidentally, the banks would like nothing more than to be weaned off the emergency ECB funding).

stakey · 24-11-2010 10:00pm

later10 wrote: »

That was emergency funding, not a long term plan. (incidentally, the banks would like nothing more than to be weaned off the emergency ECB funding).

Thought so, mind you being weaned off emergency funding on to 6% is quite the chain to lump around the neck of future generations.

Looks like the UK and Swedish governments want in on this new cash cow too.

Bob_Latchford · 24-11-2010 10:01pm

stakey wrote: »

Someone in the know might be able to clarify this but as I understand it Irish banks were borrowing from the ECB at 1%. So now we're paying 6% for the €85 billion we've just lumped on our economy... :mad:

I think your right the interbank rate was closed to irish banks (its 1%) the ECB stepped in to cover the shortfall.

Far enough 1% is low and not meant for long term i guess, but not sure why Ireland need to step into the breach and cover it at much much higher rate than Germany pays for its own bonds.

I presume the other banks in eurozone are quite happily using the interbank rate 1% everyday.

steamengine · 24-11-2010 10:02pm

gambiaman wrote: »

Why didn't the *&^%$^&* MoF have a select group of these experts in negotiating on the country's behalf?
The above was a softsoap as the deal is almost done.

There is no logical answer to that, but listening to Peter Mathews, Brian Lucey, Constantin Gurdiev, Paul Somerville and others over the last two years on VB has rendered any hypothetical 'state of the nation' address by the government as meaningless.

Ordinary man · 24-11-2010 10:07pm

Would the people negotiating on irelands behalf not be the same bunch on geniuses who have been advising the government on all their finances over the last few years?

EU/IMF loan package charges 6%

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