Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Accountant not providing CGT breakdown on house sale

Options
  • 18-11-2019 12:56pm
    #1
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭


    Hello Folks,

    I've sold a house at the start of 2019. I was a non resident owner and since the selling price was higher than the purchasing one I could have been liable for CGT.

    I hired an accountant to sort out all tax matters. At the time he mentioned in one e-mail: "At this stage we can confirm based on preliminary calculations there will be no Irish CGT due on the sale proceeds on the property"

    I've asked him 3 times by e-mail and 1 time over the phone to provide a breakdown showing zero CGT due but he never replied to my requests and now that the Dec, 15th deadline is approaching I am getting a bit nervous about it as I don't want to have any issues later on.

    My question is: is he supposed to send me on the CGT calculation? Any other suggestions?

    Thanks a million for your help!


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Mitzy
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Mitzy


    If you have employed him as an accountant then you should demand that he sends you these calculations, as at the end of day Revenue returns are your responsibility.
    A one line email from the accountant is not sufficient as evidence of your return being made.
    The CGT deadline is the 15th December so regardless of whether you have any liability or not you still need to make a return by that date otherwise you may be liable to penalties.

    Ring the accountant and ask him to forward you a copy of return showing it was submitted to Revenue.


  • Options
    #3
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Hello Folks,

    I've sold a house at the start of 2019. I was a non resident owner and since the selling price was higher than the purchasing one I could have been liable for CGT.

    I hired an accountant to sort out all tax matters. At the time he mentioned in one e-mail: "At this stage we can confirm based on preliminary calculations there will be no Irish CGT due on the sale proceeds on the property"

    I've asked him 3 times by e-mail and 1 time over the phone to provide a breakdown showing zero CGT due but he never replied to my requests and now that the Dec, 15th deadline is approaching I am getting a bit nervous about it as I don't want to have any issues later on.

    My question is: is he supposed to send me on the CGT calculation? Any other suggestions?

    Thanks a million for your help!

    Ring again this week, it was online filing deadline for IT last week so they were probably very busy...


  • Options
    #4
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    davindub wrote: »
    Ring again this week, it was online filing deadline for IT last week so they were probably very busy...

    do you know my accountant?


  • Options
    #5
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    Davindub was referring to the fact that last week was busiest time of year for all accountants due to the paye and self employed filing deadline.

    Hopefully you will get the response that you are entitled to this week. I’m assuming you have no cgt liability due to either it was your PPR which is exempt from tax for large portion of time you owned it and legal and other costs of purchase and sale outweight any liability.

    However as said before you are due the calculation.


  • Options
    #6
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Mitzy wrote: »
    If you have employed him as an accountant then you should demand that he sends you these calculations, as at the end of day Revenue returns are your responsibility.
    A one line email from the accountant is not sufficient as evidence of your return being made.
    The CGT deadline is the 15th December so regardless of whether you have any liability or not you still need to make a return by that date otherwise you may be liable to penalties.

    Ring the accountant and ask him to forward you a copy of return showing it was submitted to Revenue.

    IT 2018 has been already filed and got Revenue clearance.

    IF CGT is not due as my accountant claims, then it should be just reported in IT 2019 next year.

    The point is that I want to see that CGT is zero, not only having a statement in an e-mail. The problem is that it's very difficult to get something from this person...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Mitzy
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Mitzy


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    IT 2018 has been already filed and got Revenue clearance.

    IF CGT is not due as my accountant claims, then it should be just reported in IT 2019 next year.

    The point is that I want to see that CGT is zero, not only having a statement in an e-mail. The problem is that it's very difficult to get something from this person...

    CGT is not the same as Income Tax. It must be filed separately using form TR1.
    If you dispose of a property liable to CGT between 1st January & 30th November you must file a return by the 15th December with Revenue and pay liability due by then. If the property is sold between the 1st December & the 31st December you must pay & file any CGT by the 31st January the following year.

    All of this information is available on Revenue website.


  • Options
    #8
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Mitzy wrote: »
    CGT is not the same as Income Tax. It must be filed separately using form TR1.
    If you dispose of a property liable to CGT between 1st January & 30th November you must file a return by the 15th December with Revenue and pay liability due by then. If the property is sold between the 1st December & the 31st December you must pay & file any CGT by the 31st January the following year.

    All of this information is available on Revenue website.

    Yes, but IF it is zero than nothing has to be done this year only include details into 2019 IT return.


  • Options
    #9
    Mitzy
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Mitzy


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Yes, but IF it is zero than nothing has to be done this year only include details into 2019 IT return.

    If it is zero then you need to make a CGT return stating that it is zero within the dates as set out by Revenue. It is unusual to have a "zero" capital gain. On the disposal of an asset you usually have a gain or a loss. If there is a loss this is carried forward to future years and can be offset against future gains. This cannot be offset against Income Tax.

    If you fail to make a return you could be liable to penalties regardless of whether there is a liability or not.

    You need to clarify all this with the accountant to be sure you are Revenue compliant


  • Options
    #10
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    do you know my accountant?

    Maybe?

    Bottomline, you are entitled to whatever the terms of engagement have stated, including deadlines for completion. Calculations for tax work are generally not part of the terms but your accountant probably will provide them and discuss when they have time to do so.


  • Options
    #11
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Mitzy wrote: »
    If it is zero then you need to make a CGT return stating that it is zero within the dates as set out by Revenue. It is unusual to have a "zero" capital gain. On the disposal of an asset you usually have a gain or a loss. If there is a loss this is carried forward to future years and can be offset against future gains. This cannot be offset against Income Tax.

    If you fail to make a return you could be liable to penalties regardless of whether there is a liability or not.

    You need to clarify all this with the accountant to be sure you are Revenue compliant

    In this thread I got a different answer: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110251335&postcount=5

    If CGT is zero then nothing as to be submitted now, only next year in IT 2019.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    davindub wrote: »
    Maybe?

    Bottomline, you are entitled to whatever the terms of engagement have stated, including deadlines for completion. Calculations for tax work are generally not part of the terms but your accountant probably will provide them and discuss when they have time to do so.

    OK will check the letter of engagement but for me it is normal, especially in the situation I am, for them to provide the calculation. If any issues how can I be sure things have been done correctly?


  • Options
    #13
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Did you call / email the accountant today?

    I was crazy busy myself up to last week and CGT calcs due for Dec 15th would not have been high on my list!

    I always provide a full breakdown of the calculation. It saves questions.


  • Options
    #14
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    Did you call / email the accountant today?

    I was crazy busy myself up to last week and CGT calcs due for Dec 15th would not have been high on my list!

    I always provide a full breakdown of the calculation. It saves questions.

    It's since April 2019 I am e-mailing and calling him!! It's not about a couple of days I am in this hassle.

    i have been quiet and calm waiting fro his reply but didn't get back to me. Not sure if this behaviour is professional, for me it is totally not!


  • Options
    #15
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    Did you call / email the accountant today?

    I was crazy busy myself up to last week and CGT calcs due for Dec 15th would not have been high on my list!

    I always provide a full breakdown of the calculation. It saves questions.

    Since you are an accountant i have a general question for you: assuming CGT due is really zero, is there any form to be submitted or any other obligations by Dec, 15th?


  • Options
    #16
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Hi Pasquale,

    If there is NO CGT due, then there is nothing that needs to be filed in December. The 15th December is a payment deadline.

    From January you either file your Form 11 (self assessed tax payer) with the CGT on it or if a PAYE employee you can submit a CG1. Even if you have NO liability (as a result of costs) you still have to file the details on your return.

    It is also worth pointing out that if you did indeed make a loss, you can carry this loss forward for any future capital gains that you might have.


  • Options
    #17
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    It's since April 2019 I am e-mailing and calling him!! It's not about a couple of days I am in this hassle.

    i have been quiet and calm waiting fro his reply but didn't get back to me. Not sure if this behaviour is professional, for me it is totally not!

    If it has been going on for 6 months, get another accountant.


  • Options
    #18
    rightmove
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭rightmove


    QQ, house sold a few months ago. When do I need to pay cgt?


  • Options
    #19
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    rightmove wrote: »
    QQ, house sold a few months ago. When do I need to pay cgt?

    15 December 2019!


  • Options
    #20
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    OK will check the letter of engagement but for me it is normal, especially in the situation I am, for them to provide the calculation. If any issues how can I be sure things have been done correctly?

    As I said, your own accountant will discuss with you, you are probably sceptical of the 0 liability, but you can calculate yourself to double check, if there's an increase in value and no liability, it might be due to indexed cost, capital expenditure or partial ppr.


Advertisement