Game Time Under Joe: The Numbers

.ak · 24-03-2015 5:05pm

total former wrote: »

But see I think you're looking at the Bastareaud situation in isolation; Roberts and Burrell would surely be classed as 'big men' and got nowhere against us last season? So I think there is definitely doubt that they struggled against big men, Bastareaud is just a freak.

Did I misunderstand this bit then?

Well yes, not sure how me saying there is an element of it (i.e; an element of truth) as saying it being outright true as being the same thing?

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2015 2:57am

In some ways, I really wish there was another season to go until the world cup. There are so many players coming back from injury who could make an impact that won't get a shot. I'd love to see more of the Ulster lads given a shot, Marshall and Olding have real potential and Gilroy seems to be coming back into form. Same with Fitz and Earls. I fear that we will head to the WC without some of our most skilled players because Joe likes to stick with what he knows. A Fitz/ Henshaw partnership could be tasty, hell a Fitz / Earls set up could be dynamite. Who knows, we'll probably not get a chance to find out.

crybaby · 25-03-2015 7:14am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

A Fitz/ Henshaw partnership could be tasty, hell a Fitz / Earls set up could be dynamite. Who knows, we'll probably not get a chance to find out.

A Fitz / Earls setup would be conceding ground all over the place, need a good defence first if we are going to win games. One of them in at centre would be interesting alright but both of them at the same time would be risky to say the least.

.ak · 25-03-2015 8:26am

Tbh I think we're in very, very good shape heading into the RWC... Fingers crossed. The only player who would feature in the first XV that might not be fit is Trimble.

We've got our best 23 all fit for once...

Remember Fitz was fit all the time, and to an extent so was earls. He just chose not to use them

phog · 25-03-2015 10:00am

.ak wrote: »

Tbh I think we're in very, very good shape heading into the RWC... Fingers crossed. The only player who would feature in the first XV that might not be fit is Trimble.

We've got our best 23 all fit for once...

Remember Fitz was fit all the time, and to an extent so was earls. He just chose not to use them

Aside from Sexton and to a lesser degree Murray, I'd hate to face into a W/Cup campaign without them.

.ak · 25-03-2015 10:11am

phog wrote: »

Aside from Sexton and to a lesser degree Murray, I'd hate to face into a W/Cup campaign without them.

How do you mean? Cuz of niggles? Or the cover in their position?

My point was we had our strongest XV available to us throughout the campaign so everyone got game time and there were no major injuries from it - which is amazing considering previous years.

Buer · 25-03-2015 11:39am

.ak wrote: »

Tbh I think we're in very, very good shape heading into the RWC... Fingers crossed. The only player who would feature in the first XV that might not be fit is Trimble.

From the options that are available and the fact that he'll be pushing a year without a game, I think Trimble has a real fight on his hands to make the squad at all.

Fitzgerald, Zebo, Bowe, Earls all to travel.

I can see it being a straight shoot out between himself and Dave Kearney.

irishbucsfan · 25-03-2015 12:34pm

Buer wrote: »

From the options that are available and the fact that he'll be pushing a year without a game, I think Trimble has a real fight on his hands to make the squad at all.

Fitzgerald, Zebo, Bowe, Earls all to travel.

I can see it being a straight shoot out between himself and Dave Kearney.

Personally I dont think there's a chance Joe would consider Kearney over Trimble.

I think Trimble will travel if what Joe said about footedness of back 3 players being an important factor in considering selection is true.

Buer · 25-03-2015 12:55pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Personally I dont think there's a chance Joe would consider Kearney over Trimble.

I think Trimble will travel if what Joe said about footedness of back 3 players being an important factor in considering selection is true.

In normal circumstances, I would agree. However, Trimble has not stepped onto a pitch since the start of October. He'll be a full 10 months without a game come the warm ups nor will he have been involved in any training, patterns etc. since Argentina last summer so 14 months away from the Irish set up.

Schmidt seems to be firmly a man who believes in retaining someone who has been present and performing in the set up. I don't believe he sees Trimble as one of his important players either, despite his performances in last season's tournament. Trimble was left out of the 34 man squad entirely for Schmidt's first autumn in charge. I believe Bowe is the only winger who enjoys that luxury.

Kearney has done well of late, has been name checked by Schmidt as an option for the team, is also right footed (and Trimble's kicking game is not good) and will be fully fit.

I would think that Trimble is very unlikely at this point to get back into the Irish team and I'd put him at 50/50 to be in the squad.

total former · 25-03-2015 1:06pm

Buer wrote: »

In normal circumstances, I would agree. However, Trimble has not stepped onto a pitch since the start of October. He'll be a full 10 months without a game come the warm ups nor will he have been involved in any training, patterns etc. since Argentina last summer so 14 months away from the Irish set up.

Schmidt seems to be firmly a man who believes in retaining someone who has been present and performing in the set up. I don't believe he sees Trimble as one of his important players either, despite his performances in last season's tournament. Trimble was left out of the 34 man squad entirely for Schmidt's first autumn in charge. I believe Bowe is the only winger who enjoys that luxury.

Kearney has done well of late, has been name checked by Schmidt as an option for the team, is also right footed (and Trimble's kicking game is not good) and will be fully fit.

I would think that Trimble is very unlikely at this point to get back into the Irish team and I'd put him at 50/50 to be in the squad.

Yeah I agree with this. Like it or not, possession seems to be nine-tenths of the law when it comes to Joe's selections and I don't think Trimble is in the category of players who will just walk back into the squad.

Dave Kearney is a cautionary tale for Trimble, excellent November 2013, played every minute of the 2014 6N, then got injured for Argentina and November 2014 and is on the outside looking in now (but is at least in the larger squad). McFadden is in a similar boat.

I think DK, McFadden, Trimble and Zebo are all fighting over the same spot in the RWC squad.

bilston · 25-03-2015 1:47pm

Big few weeks coming up for a lot of guys. There will be guys looking on frm the outside who will be desperate to make the WC squad.

A lot of them seem to be up here in Ulster too. Tuohy, Henry, Jackson, Olding, Marshall and Gilroy all need to impress if they want to challenge for the WC squad.

At Munster guys like Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ryan, Foley, Keatley and Earls need a big run in too and at Leinster there is McCarthy, Ryan, McFadden and Dave Kearney who will feel they can make it. Hopefully that should help add a bit of edge to the provinces as the season reaches its climax.

Buer · 25-03-2015 3:07pm

bilston wrote: »

Big few weeks coming up for a lot of guys. There will be guys looking on frm the outside who will be desperate to make the WC squad.

A lot of them seem to be up here in Ulster too. Tuohy, Henry, Jackson, Olding, Marshall and Gilroy all need to impress if they want to challenge for the WC squad.

At Munster guys like Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ryan, Foley, Keatley and Earls need a big run in too and at Leinster there is McCarthy, Ryan, McFadden and Dave Kearney who will feel they can make it. Hopefully that should help add a bit of edge to the provinces as the season reaches its climax.

I would say Henry (through no fault of his own), Marshall, Gilroy, Kilcoyne (harsh but I think Cronin is rated ahead of him as well as Bent now seemingly), Keatley, Ryan, McCarthy and maybe even McFadden will be playing for stand by places.

padser · 25-03-2015 5:16pm

total former wrote: »

BOD and D'Arcy would absolutely have made it if they came through now.

Probably.

But BOD gave an interview a few months back where he said he thought both himself and Darcy would struggle to come through if they were trying today. Size had become much more of a pre requisite for centres.

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2015 7:35pm

I think other posters are on the money re Trimble. With everyone fit and on form, he'd be about 5th in the pecking order of wingers, possible 6th if Gilroy keeps progressing. If he makes the squad for the WC, he'll have really excelled.

bilston · 25-03-2015 7:49pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think other posters are on the money re Trimble. With everyone fit and on form, he'd be about 5th in the pecking order of wingers, possible 6th if Gilroy keeps progressing. If he makes the squad for the WC, he'll have really excelled.

Are you including Trinble as being fit and in form?

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2015 7:58pm

bilston wrote: »

Are you including Trinble as being fit and in form?

I am, I'd have Bowe, Fitz, Earls and Zebo ahead of him. I think Gilroy has a higher ceiling than him too.

bilston · 25-03-2015 8:48pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I am, I'd have Bowe, Fitz, Earls and Zebo ahead of him. I think Gilroy has a higher ceiling than him too.

I can't agree with that at all. A fully fit Trimble would be in my starting XV.

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2015 8:54pm

Fair enough, differing opinions and all that. What attributes do you feel he possesses that are superior to those other wingers?

From my perspective, offensively, I would rate Bowe and Earls ahead of him in terms of likelihood to break the line and finishing ability. I think Fitz has better hands and footwork, with a better eye for running lines and support play (which as an aside makes him the best center currently playing imo).

I think Bowe and Fitz are also better defensively than he is, both in terms of reads and tackling ability.

bilston · 25-03-2015 11:08pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Fair enough, differing opinions and all that. What attributes do you feel he possesses that are superior to those other wingers?

From my perspective, offensively, I would rate Bowe and Earls ahead of him in terms of likelihood to break the line and finishing ability. I think Fitz has better hands and footwork, with a better eye for running lines and support play (which as an aside makes him the best center currently playing imo).

I think Bowe and Fitz are also better defensively than he is, both in terms of reads and tackling ability.

Fitzgerald and Earls have better footwork and hands than Trimble, but Trimble is more physical and a better finisher than Fitzgerald. Earls is a good finisher as well but again Trimble's physicality gives him a big advantage at test level. Trimble and Fitzgerald/Earls would probably make a decent wing combination. There isn't a lot between Bowe and Trimble. Strangely with Ireland Bowe is more established, yet at Ulster I'd say Trimble is more important than Tommy. Bowe is a more intelligent wing, Trimble is probably a bit quicker.

I'm not sure who is better defensively to be honest, I think they are all much of a muchness to be honest. They are all pretty reliable.

It's all very close which is no bad thing.

.ak · 25-03-2015 11:32pm

Honestly, when I used to hear how ulster fans ranted about Trimble I just didn't get it. I never saw it... I actually thought he was awful whenever he played for Ireland. He'd get the ball, see the touch line and **** himself and cut back inside and just truck it up, never venturing past the 5m line. It was like having an extra lock on the pitch but with better hair.

But now I see how mistaken I was. I guess I only saw him play under kidney and never really watched him much for ulster, or at least not enough. I think Schmidt hasn't hindered him and allows him to okay his natural game, he was fantastic against France and I don't think any Irish winger has matched that performance in the last 12 months. He actually has a wicked step, a really good top end pace and he runs fantastic support lines, plus he's a beast in the air, and offers another valid option in midfield. He's ideal for the modern game and he's getting better under Schmidt.

I reckon a lot of ulster fans have the same opinion of Fitzgerald. They only saw glimpses in 09, followed by injury and a terrible run of form under kidney upon his return... But if you watch him week in week out you'd know that he's probably the most talented player since bod.

For me, all fit and firing, I'd have to have bowe, fitz and Trimble in the 23... If Trimble offered the same form as 2014 I'd probably leave bowe on the bench!

AbusesToilets · 26-03-2015 2:22am

bilston wrote: »

Fitzgerald and Earls have better footwork and hands than Trimble, but Trimble is more physical and a better finisher than Fitzgerald. Earls is a good finisher as well but again Trimble's physicality gives him a big advantage at test level. Trimble and Fitzgerald/Earls would probably make a decent wing combination. There isn't a lot between Bowe and Trimble. Strangely with Ireland Bowe is more established, yet at Ulster I'd say Trimble is more important than Tommy. Bowe is a more intelligent wing, Trimble is probably a bit quicker.

I'm not sure who is better defensively to be honest, I think they are all much of a muchness to be honest. They are all pretty reliable.

It's all very close which is no bad thing.

How do you see Gilroy, in terms of pecking order. When he and Zebo were playing for the national team in 2012, for me Gilroy seemed the better prospect.

TommyOM · 26-03-2015 11:50am

I think Fitzgerald is actually just as physical as Trimble. Anyone watching Fitzgerald lately will see he is a tackling machine and hits an obscene amount of rucks.

.ak · 26-03-2015 12:37pm

TommyOM wrote: »

I think Fitzgerald is actually just as physical as Trimble. Anyone watching Fitzgerald lately will see he is a tackling machine and hits an obscene amount of rucks.

I think he's the better rucker and tackler too, however I think when people refer to physicality with Trimble they're talking about his ability to burst through a soft shoulder. He's faster, taller, and more dynamic in his carrying. Luke is more subtle and is more likely to get around you without a fingering being laid on him - having said that Luke isn't shy of the contact either, and he's bulked up considerably.

Paul Smeenus · 26-03-2015 12:56pm

I think what many people miss about Trimble is that actually, his reading of the game is excellent. Really good.

Over the last few years at Ulster he has notched up more intercept tries than the rest of the team put together. It's a noticeable feature oif his game. He is very astute in defense, shooting up out of the line if not for an intercept, then to stop the opposition's momentum.

He combines strength and a bit of explosive power with timing and smarts - not creativity, but arriving just in time to slow down a ruck, to win back a good, high kick.

Also, he scored this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8qbtSnPUyg

AbusesToilets · 26-03-2015 1:29pm

One criticsim I'd have towards Trimble is that he seems reluctant to back himself with the ball in hand to beat the defender. That was one of the things that made his performance against France so remarkable. His outside burst to set up the Sexton try was something I hadn't seen too often from him at international level. Compare that to the English game I think it was, where he was one on one with a defender on a break and decided to try and chip over him rather than make a break. He doesn't seem to have that problem for Ulster, from the highlights I've seen, and obviously internationals are a big set up.

Game Time Under Joe: The Numbers

Comments