€1bn cost overrun for new Children's Hospital

12-02-2019 1:12pm

Not naming the home McDonald's house.

It's one decision in this I actually agree with.

tretorn · 12-02-2019 1:17pm

If its going to cost the taxpayer millions because McDonalds wont fund it unless its called McDonalds house do you still think the HSEs decision is wise.

Dont forget there are children spending their lives in the wrong size wheelchair because seemingly there isnt enough money to supply replacement wheelchairs. We have children committing suicide because of our desperate mental health service for children and teenagers. We are spending millions on a new hospital and in some parts of the country there arent even child phychiatrists available for emergency cases.

I think we need to get our priorities right and take money from wherever its offered.

We are going to have to find money from somewhere for legal costs if the underbidders for this project take legal action, that could run into hundreds and thousands too and the underbidders from the sound of things have a very good case.

The waste of money is sickening.

RustyNut · 12-02-2019 1:36pm

Yurt! wrote: »

We need serious people stepping up to the plate in all the major political parties the next election, and people need to give all of them hell at the doorstep and on the hustings.

The party system is the problem, If FG came up with an idea to end the housing crisis FF would oppose it because it might make FG look good. Likewise if FF could cure the trolly issue it would be opposed by FG for the same reasons.

If I got my way we wouldn't elect an Oireachtas at all, just a government. If someone thinks they would make a good minister for health then they can set out their stall and campaign for the job based on their qualifications, experience etc and the people can decide who they want in which job and pay the going rate for competence. I don't think Ross,Harris etc would be in the position they are in now with their incompetent cronyism costing the country billions and delivering nothing.

As for the rest of the TD's they should run for their local council because all the do is the work of local councillors, getting the pothole outside Johnny's house sorted, pretending to sort out Marie's medical card and trying to blag a seat at the top table regardless of any skills they might lack to do the job.

Could someone remind me what qualifications Harris has to run the department of health and manage its budget and who put him there?

tretorn · 12-02-2019 1:41pm

Harris is very young so probably went into politics in his short trousers. He must have been knocking round FG full time for years so doubt if he worked at anything else.

Does anyone know anything about him.

Vradkar put them there probably hoping he would fail at the job so wouldnt be a contender for Leos position should Leo become a cropper. If Harris is forced to go then Leo can sit tight for a bit longer, they will mutually back each other up.

12-02-2019 2:35pm

tretorn wrote: »

If its going to cost the taxpayer millions because McDonalds wont fund it unless its called McDonalds house do you still think the HSEs decision is wise.

I dont mind the expense on this one. McDonalds food is fatty, poor quality sh*te that we shouldnt be encouraging kids to eat, either in or out of hospital.

The whole thing is a marketing exercise for Mc Donalds.

James Brown · 12-02-2019 3:13pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Not naming the home McDonald's house.

It's one decision in this I actually agree with.

It's their charity 'McDonald House'. They have accommodation for the families of sick kids all over the world. If they are paying...

James Brown · 12-02-2019 3:16pm

tretorn wrote: »

Harris is very young so probably went into politics in his short trousers. He must have been knocking round FG full time for years so doubt if he worked at anything else.

Does anyone know anything about him.

Vradkar put them there probably hoping he would fail at the job so wouldnt be a contender for Leos position should Leo become a cropper. If Harris is forced to go then Leo can sit tight for a bit longer, they will mutually back each other up.

He put them there because it's all hip and new young bollocksology. They are like caretakers on autopilot with cheeky remarks for any detractors. I gave Harris a chance until one day he rolled out the, 'There's no magic wand' line in regards to the health crisis. Same old rhetoric in a slim fit suit. Sure Eoghan has a beard and rolls up his sleeves, it'll be grand.

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 3:21pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's their charity 'McDonald House'. They have accommodation for the families of sick kids all over the world. If they are paying...

Why stop at McDonalds house. Let’s get a Guinness wing, Coke chemotherapy suite and maybe an El Chapo operating theatre

James Brown · 12-02-2019 3:37pm

Doc07 wrote: »

Why stop at McDonalds house. Let’s get a Guinness wing, Coke chemotherapy suite and maybe an El Chapo operating theatre

If they're paying, why not? The don't have a big neon McDonald's sign on the side of it. Even if it did it would be preferable to a plaque saying opened by Bertie Ahern or some such. I believe wings are often named after the wealthy donors anyway. If I'm up from the country because my kid has cancer and I'm getting put up for free near the hospital they can call it McChicken f***ing sandwich house for all I'd care.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 3:38pm

RustyNut wrote: »

The party system is the problem, If FG came up with an idea to end the housing crisis FF would oppose it because it might make FG look good. Likewise if FF could cure the trolly issue it would be opposed by FG for the same reasons.

If I got my way we wouldn't elect an Oireachtas at all, just a government. If someone thinks they would make a good minister for health then they can set out their stall and campaign for the job based on their qualifications, experience etc and the people can decide who they want in which job and pay the going rate for competence. I don't think Ross,Harris etc would be in the position they are in now with their incompetent cronyism costing the country billions and delivering nothing.

As for the rest of the TD's they should run for their local council because all the do is the work of local councillors, getting the pothole outside Johnny's house sorted, pretending to sort out Marie's medical card and trying to blag a seat at the top table regardless of any skills they might lack to do the job.

Could someone remind me what qualifications Harris has to run the department of health and manage its budget and who put him there?

Have often said this myself. The person in charge for health should come from a background in health services and so hopefully know what's needed education, housing should be the same. Even still they get the job on the basis if they cant be seen to be able to handle the job there gone. As is the way in any employment

malinheader · 12-02-2019 3:40pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Not naming the home McDonald's house.

It's one decision in this I actually agree with.

Don't see nothing wrong with this at all. If there paying for it I think it should be up to them what it's called. Maybe the government fell embarrassed that something is finally getting done.

salmocab · 12-02-2019 3:43pm

malinheader wrote: »

Have often said this myself. The person in charge for health should come from a background in health services and so hopefully know what's needed education, housing should be the same. Even still they get the job on the basis if they cant be seen to be able to handle the job there gone. As is the way in any employment

Like Leo and James Reilly? Nah your alright thanks.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 3:45pm

salmocab wrote: »

Like Leo and James Reilly? Nah your alright thanks.

Thought of them. That's why I said if you're seen as not being able to handle the job your gone,finito. Not shifted to another department to fcuk it up also.

James Brown · 12-02-2019 3:45pm

malinheader wrote: »

Have often said this myself. The person in charge for health should come from a background in health services and so hopefully know what's needed education, housing should be the same. Even still they get the job on the basis if they cant be seen to be able to handle the job there gone. As is the way in any employment

I'd say putting someone in charge of health because they were popular enough to win votes is a pretty insane way to run something when you think about it. All governments seem to have little rhyme or reason as to who goes where. It's often based on loyalty and support. Nuts.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 3:50pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'd say putting someone in charge of health because they were popular enough to win votes is a pretty insane way to run something when you think about it. All governments seem to have little rhyme or reason as to who goes where. It's often based on loyalty and support. Nuts.

Agreed. Who you know rather than what you know .

salmocab · 12-02-2019 3:52pm

malinheader wrote: »

Thought of them. That's why I said if you're seen as not being able to handle the job your gone,finito. Not shifted to another department to fcuk it up also.

I think what those departments need are competent people with good management skills. The backgrounds being medical muddies the waters as the initial assumption is they know what they are talking about.
I work for a big multinational and the guys who own and run the business are doing a good job but they couldn’t do my job and I certainly couldn’t do theirs.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 4:00pm

salmocab wrote: »

I think what those departments need are competent people with good management skills. The backgrounds being medical muddies the waters as the initial assumption is they know what they are talking about.
I work for a big multinational and the guys who own and run the business are doing a good job but they couldn’t do my job and I certainly couldn’t do theirs.

You would hope they knew what they were talking about if they took the job. My biggest problem is alot of these so called ministers don't really care what happens if they mess up because 9 times out of ten they get shifted to another department or sent over to Brussels for a while until the heat dies down. I bet there never worrying about the mortgage or the car payments if they lose their position.

Floppybits · 12-02-2019 4:09pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'd say putting someone in charge of health because they were popular enough to win votes is a pretty insane way to run something when you think about it. All governments seem to have little rhyme or reason as to who goes where. It's often based on loyalty and support. Nuts.

Imagine we got a leader that said I am not going to appoint any of my party colleagues to Health just for the sake of it, I am going to go and get the best person for the job from outside of politics and give that person the control that is needed to sort the problem out.

Privatising health is not the way, they need someone to go in and break up he fiefdoms in there and as long as you have a person at the top is answerable to the public like a politician you wont get any real change.

I hold Bertie responsible for the shambles that the HSE has become. When the HSE was being set up and the 4 health boards were being brought under the one roof, then was the time to clear out the dead wood and shrink at least the admin section, so instead of 4 managers doing the same job, make 3 redundant and appoint 1 manager. But Bertie to keep the peace and buy votes said when the HSE was being set up that there would be no redundancies. One of the worse decisions in health that was ever made.

martingriff · 12-02-2019 4:10pm

malinheader wrote: »

Have often said this myself. The person in charge for health should come from a background in health services and so hopefully know what's needed education, housing should be the same. Even still they get the job on the basis if they cant be seen to be able to handle the job there gone. As is the way in any employment

You mean like
Dr. Leo Varadker
Dr. James Reilly

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 4:31pm

malinheader wrote: »

Don't see nothing wrong with this at all. If there paying for it I think it should be up to them what it's called. Maybe the government fell embarrassed that something is finally getting done.

How about ‘ Diageo Liver Transplant Unit relatives room’ or ‘Philip Morris Lung Cancer convalescence home’

Amirani · 12-02-2019 4:43pm

Floppybits wrote: »

Imagine we got a leader that said I am not going to appoint any of my party colleagues to Health just for the sake of it, I am going to go and get the best person for the job from outside of politics and give that person the control that is needed to sort the problem out.

There would be outcry about it being undemocratic, and the Taoiseach of the day would be castigated for "jobs for the boys" or what not. There's no way you'd get widespread support for the scenario you envisage.

For what it's worth, this is essentially what happens in the US. What is your opinion on Trump's cabinet?

salmocab · 12-02-2019 4:49pm

malinheader wrote: »

You would hope they knew what they were talking about if they took the job. My biggest problem is alot of these so called ministers don't really care what happens if they mess up because 9 times out of ten they get shifted to another department or sent over to Brussels for a while until the heat dies down. I bet there never worrying about the mortgage or the car payments if they lose their position.

It’s a weakness in our political system the people in these jobs have to have no qualifications other than getting elected. They don’t need to display any particular knowledge or skills other than being who the man in charge deems the man for the job, sometimes that will be for the right reason sometimes it will be political. A minister could be appointed based on their geographic location as a sop to local voters or because he stood by the leader in the past.
These things make it very unlikely that we always or even often get the right man for the job.

Podge_irl · 12-02-2019 4:53pm

Amirani wrote: »

There would be outcry about it being undemocratic, and the Taoiseach of the day would be castigated for "jobs for the boys" or what not. There's no way you'd get widespread support for the scenario you envisage.

For what it's worth, this is essentially what happens in the US. What is your opinion on Trump's cabinet?

There would probably be some outcry about it being wildly unconstitutional also.

salmocab · 12-02-2019 4:56pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

There would probably be some outcry about it being wildly unconstitutional also.

Pretty sure it’s not, I remember a few years back when people used to say Mick from Ryanair was the man to sort out various things that it was talked about as possible and may even have been done years ago.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 4:57pm

Doc07 wrote: »

How about ‘ Diageo Liver Transplant Unit relatives room’ or ‘Philip Morris Lung Cancer convalescence home’

Do you really put what mc Donald's are wanting to do up there with these.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 4:58pm

martingriff wrote: »

You mean like
Dr. Leo Varadker
Dr. James Reilly

Have already answered this if you look back a wee bit.

Amirani · 12-02-2019 4:58pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

There would probably be some outcry about it being wildly unconstitutional also.

It could technically be done. Just the Taoiseach, Tanaiste and Minister for Finance constitutionally have to be members of Dáil Éireann. Other cabinet roles can be filled with a maximum of 2 members from Seanad Éireann (the Government has to be composed of Oireachtas members). Given that the Taoiseach directly nominates 11 people to the Seanad, they could as a result appoint 2 non-elected personnel to ministerial roles.

That's all just a constitutional technicality though. It's never gonna happen.

salmocab · 12-02-2019 4:59pm

salmocab wrote: »

Pretty sure it’s not, I remember a few years back when people used to say Mick from Ryanair was the man to sort out various things that it was talked about as possible and may even have been done years ago.

Actually just googled this 2 members of the cabinet may be from the Seanad so in theory the Taoiseach could appoint someone to the Seanad and give them a job. The Seanad ministers can’t hold certain posts though.

Edit beaten to it by a clearer post

Dakotabigone · 12-02-2019 5:01pm

Simon has made an apology, all is well again. Bring on the cement mixers.

Podge_irl · 12-02-2019 5:02pm

Amirani wrote: »

It could technically be done. Just the Taoiseach, Tanaiste and Minister for Finance constitutionally have to be members of Dáil Éireann. Other cabinet roles can be filled with a maximum of 2 members from Seanad Éireann (the Government has to be composed of Oireachtas members). Given that the Taoiseach nominates 11 people to the Seanad, they could as a result appoint 2 non-elected personnel to ministerial roles.

That's all just a constitutional technicality though. It's never gonna happen.

True, it can technically be done if the person in question is appointed to the Seanad. But that makes it a little trickier.

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 5:07pm

malinheader wrote: »

Do you really put what mc Donald's are wanting to do up there with these.

My examples may seem a tad extreme but McDonalds business model relies on repeated eating of their crap and expansion to as many regions where people will repeatedly eat this crap. And it works as I eat it every now and again.
So their sponsorship of a children’s hospital, as honorable a gesture as supporting the families may be, to me is as bizarre and unpalatable as a drinks or tobacco company supporting family support centers for transplant and lung cancer.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-02-2019 5:09pm

Amirani wrote: »

It could technically be done. Just the Taoiseach, Tanaiste and Minister for Finance constitutionally have to be members of Dáil Éireann. Other cabinet roles can be filled with a maximum of 2 members from Seanad Éireann (the Government has to be composed of Oireachtas members). Given that the Taoiseach directly nominates 11 people to the Seanad, they could as a result appoint 2 non-elected personnel to ministerial roles.

That's all just a constitutional technicality though. It's never gonna happen.

Don’t see why not. An innovative government might do it.

Auguste Comte · 12-02-2019 5:18pm

RustyNut wrote: »

.

If I got my way we wouldn't elect an Oireachtas at all, just a government. If someone thinks they would make a good minister for health then they can set out their stall and campaign for the job based on their qualifications, experience etc and the people can decide who they want in which job and pay the going rate for competence. I don't think Ross,Harris etc would be in the position they are in now with their incompetent cronyism costing the country billions and delivering nothing.

As for the rest of the TD's they should run for their local council because all the do is the work of local councillors, getting the pothole outside Johnny's house sorted, pretending to sort out Marie's medical card and trying to blag a seat at the top table regardless of any skills they might lack to do the job.

Could someone remind me what qualifications Harris has to run the department of health and manage its budget and who put him there?

I like this idea, people running for a specific roll and a national vote on who is the best for each portfolio. Take the parish pump, he turned up to the Ma's funeral voting out of the equation.

I wonder how many of today's crop of ministers would be in their job if we had that type of system.

Stephen15 · 12-02-2019 5:18pm

Whatever about it being a children's hospital the thought of using naming rights for a hospital seems a but weird. It's a hospital not a stadium. What's next naming rights for universities or other public buildings.

Podge_irl · 12-02-2019 5:21pm

Auguste Comte wrote: »

I like this idea, people running for a specific roll and a national vote on who is the best for each portfolio. Take the parish pump, he turned up to the Ma's funeral voting out of the equation.

I wonder how many of today's crop of ministers would be in their job if we had that type of system.

The only remotely relevant role in that system is the minister for finance.

malinheader · 12-02-2019 5:45pm

Doc07 wrote: »

My examples may seem a tad extreme but McDonalds business model relies on repeated eating of their crap and expansion to as many regions where people will repeatedly eat this crap. And it works as I eat it every now and again.
So their sponsorship of a children’s hospital, as honorable a gesture as supporting the families may be, to me is as bizarre and unpalatable as a drinks or tobacco company supporting family support centers for transplant and lung cancer.

Fair enough I respect your views on the matter. I was merely saying that I would have no problem with it myself. Don't think its going to happen now anyhow.

James Brown · 12-02-2019 7:15pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Whatever about it being a children's hospital the thought of using naming rights for a hospital seems a but weird. It's a hospital not a stadium. What's next naming rights for universities or other public buildings.

They wanted to name the house they build for families to stay for free near children in hospital 'McDonald House' after their charity. They have them all over the world.

iamwhoiam · 12-02-2019 7:25pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They wanted to name the house they build for families to stay for free near children in hospital 'McDonald House' after their charity. They have them all over the world.

The parents house in Crumlin is the Ronald Mac Donald house for years and no one batted an eye !'

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 7:38pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The parents house in Crumlin is the Ronald Mac Donald house for years and no one batted an eye !'

I actually complained formally but I’m not famous so no one batted an eye at the complaint!

12-02-2019 7:57pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

What's next naming rights for universities or other public buildings.

The Faculty of Science at UCD is already named the O'Brien Centre for Science, named after one [Censored] O'Brien

iamwhoiam · 12-02-2019 8:03pm

Doc07 wrote: »

I actually complained formally but I’m not famous so no one batted an eye at the complaint!

I bet many parents who were lucky enough to stay there were not all that bothered what it was called . They were just grateful to have a room to be close to their sick child and for the siblings to sleep

Wheeliebin30 · 12-02-2019 8:17pm

Doc07 wrote: »

I actually complained formally but I’m not famous so no one batted an eye at the complaint!

****en hell.

salmocab · 12-02-2019 9:26pm

On the Ronald Mc Donald house thing, the optics aren’t great and I’m sure it’s used or at least seen as a promotional tool within that organization but they do fund these things when maybe funds would be difficult to find. I’ve not got a big issue with it but would prefer for it not to be a thing.

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 9:44pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

****en hell.

I didn’t complain about the facility being built, but that our largest children’s hospital was sponsored by MacDonalds. It’s hardly that outrageous to not be delighted that a children’s hospital is sponsored by MickeyD’s.

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 9:49pm

salmocab wrote: »

On the Ronald Mc Donald house thing, the optics aren’t great and I’m sure it’s used or at least seen as a promotional tool within that organization but they do fund these things when maybe funds would be difficult to find. I’ve not got a big issue with it but would prefer for it not to be a thing.

If I had to spend the night there I would of course be grateful. I still think it’s a reasonable opinion to hold that childrens hospitals should not be sponsored by ,and therefore indirectly endorse, MacDonalds. Despite our issues with health and homelessness this is not a 3rd world country.

Plumbthedepths · 12-02-2019 9:51pm

Doc07 wrote:

I didnâ€™t complain about the facility being built, but that our largest childrenâ€™s hospital was sponsored by MacDonalds. Itâ€™s hardly that outrageous to not be delighted that a childrenâ€™s hospital is sponsored by MickeyDâ€™s.

It's not the hospital but the accommodation for parents.

salmocab · 12-02-2019 9:54pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not the hospital but the accommodation for parents.

In fairness the one in crumlin is on the hospital grounds and the name can be clearly seen from the main road. Like I said I don’t have a big issue with it but the optics are probably a bit off.

Wheeliebin30 · 12-02-2019 9:59pm

The Ronald Macdonald house is a charity.

I think it’s a great cause and how people have a problem with it is beyond me.

https://rmhc.ie/

The mission of RMHC, Ireland, is to provide a Ronald McDonald House in order to support families whose children are seriously ill in hospital. The Ronald McDonald House provides accommodation and a caring and supportive environment for families whose children are seriously ill and are hospitalised or undergoing medical treatment at Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital, Crumlin, Dublin 12

Doc07 · 12-02-2019 10:09pm

salmocab wrote: »

In fairness the one in crumlin is on the hospital grounds and the name can be clearly seen from the main road. Like I said I don’t have a big issue with it but the optics are probably a bit off.

Exactly, indistinguishable from the hospital to a casual observer, exactly as intended. We can all have different opinions on whether the MacDonalds sponsorship is a big deal or not and we are equally entitled to those opinions.

What others might claim, that it’s not the hospital but just an accommodation facility for parents and therefore does not associate the hospital with the company, is an alternate fact.

Think that’s enough internet for me now!

salmocab · 12-02-2019 10:10pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The Ronald Macdonald house is a charity.

I think it’s a great cause and how people have a problem with it is beyond me.

https://rmhc.ie/

The mission of RMHC, Ireland, is to provide a Ronald McDonald House in order to support families whose children are seriously ill in hospital. The Ronald McDonald House provides accommodation and a caring and supportive environment for families whose children are seriously ill and are hospitalised or undergoing medical treatment at Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital, Crumlin, Dublin 12

I think everyone knows what it is, I doubt anyone thinks they aren’t doing good work but I think that doesn’t mean people can’t question whether a fast food place being linked with a children’s hospital is a good look.

€1bn cost overrun for new Children's Hospital

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