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Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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Comments

  • #9852
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Utter Consternation wrote: »
    This morning. I'd a few close passes like this. This one felt rather close though. Maybe i was just being over sensitive because i was fooking drenched.

    https://streamable.com/9gidc

    It's def a close pass and based on their course they planned to do the same to the cyclist in front of you as they are driving in the cycle lane.

    Does your video show them close passing the next cyclist as well?

    If so def report the driver, not only do you have your close pass but you have evidence of them doing it to the cyclist in front.


  • #9853
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    Utter Consternation wrote: »
    This morning. I'd a few close passes like this. This one felt rather close though. Maybe i was just being over sensitive because i was fooking drenched.

    https://streamable.com/9gidc

    Jesus christ no that was bad. I'd be sending that to the gards


  • #9854
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    That's a close pass okay, but the guards will probably come up with some BS that the driver doesn't cross the broken white line - does up ahead though.


  • #9855
    Utter Consternation
    Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭Utter Consternation


    Cabaal wrote: »
    It's def a close pass and based on their course they planned to do the same to the cyclist in front of you as they are driving in the cycle lane.

    Does your video show them close passing the next cyclist as well?

    If so def report the driver, not only do you have your close pass but you have evidence of them doing it to the cyclist in front.

    No, it was a lad on an electric scooter actually. There's a set of traffic lights there so the car stopped and the lad on the scooter went through on red.

    What's the best way to report it? Via email?


  • #9856
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    That's a close pass okay, but the guards will probably come up with some BS that the driver doesn't cross the broken white line - does up ahead though.
    Surely there are no lazy gardai who try and avoid proceeding with their duties? ;)
    https://twitter.com/righttobikeit/status/1194294778759913475


  • #9857
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    Utter Consternation wrote: »
    This morning. I'd a few close passes like this. This one felt rather close though. Maybe i was just being over sensitive because i was fooking drenched.

    https://streamable.com/9gidc

    Wainsfort Rd? A saw a cyclist lying on the footpath the other morning along there. Lolly pop lady was saying she thought he broke his arm. It’s a horribly busy stretch in the mornings. The painted lane is a disaster. Cars think because there’s “2” lanes they can squeeze along and it’s grand.


  • #9858
    Utter Consternation
    Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭Utter Consternation


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    Wainsfort Rd? A saw a cyclist lying on the footpath the other morning along there. Lolly pop lady was saying she thought he broke his arm. It’s a horribly busy stretch in the mornings. The painted lane is a disaster. Cars think because there’s “2” lanes they can squeeze along and it’s grand.

    Yeah, it's not great. There's an awful lot of distracted drivers along there that are impatient and stuck in traffic in their SUVs. They always seem to be in two minds whether to look at their phones or actually drive their cars.

    It's the same all the way into town actually. :D


  • #9859
    tnegun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭tnegun


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    The painted lane is a disaster. Cars think because there’s “2” lanes they can squeeze along and it’s grand.


    Absolutely this the painted lanes should be removed better off having none as that reinforces the idea of sharing the lane


  • #9860
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    tnegun wrote: »
    Absolutely this the painted lanes should be removed better off having none as that reinforces the idea of sharing the lane

    There is a very similar issue on the quays by collins barracks. There is simply not enough room to have a cycle lane and bus lane. The buses use the dotted cycle lane to judge how close to pass cyclists. It is a narrow cycle lane that floods very easily.


  • #9861
    Idleater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    tnegun wrote: »
    Absolutely this the painted lanes should be removed better off having none as that reinforces the idea of sharing the lane

    Many roads like these in the Netherlands have cycling lanes in both directions and one traffic lane to accommodate both directions of vehicular traffic.


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  • #9862
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Looks like Roadstone haven't yet found time to to speak with their drivers about driving more carefully around vulnerable road users...

    https://twitter.com/eoinos/status/1194688128147238912


  • #9863
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Looks like Roadstone haven't yet found time to to speak with their drivers about driving more carefully around vulnerable road users...

    https://twitter.com/eoinos/status/1194688128147238912

    Saw one mill through a stale red light this morning between junction of the Canal and Mount Street Lwr. Then when it reached the junction of Grand Canal Street, it was in the right lane, no indicator on. I waited behind it, and it turned left :mad: Unbelievable behaviour.

    Camera was off when I got to work :(


  • #9864
    mamax
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 880 ✭✭✭mamax


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Tell them that the evidence is available online: https://streamable.com/ize1m

    That's a very close pass from a car with an "L" plate on it with oncoming traffic :eek:
    Is it you ?
    And did you report it ?


  • #9865
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Looks like Roadstone haven't yet found time to to speak with their drivers about driving more carefully around vulnerable road users...

    https://twitter.com/eoinos/status/1194688128147238912

    Interestingly, the government (presuming it is the new build around there) could be seen to be potentially liable if they have not taken measures since the last accident. Whiel Roadstone have a duty of care in the workplace, the government (roadstone being contractors) have a legal responsibility under the 2005 SHWW act to risk assess and improve the situation and do all that is reasonably practicable. Interesting to know if they have even made attempts to do so yet.


  • #9866
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    mamax wrote: »
    That's a very close pass from a car with an "L" plate on it with oncoming traffic :eek:
    Is it you ?
    And did you report it ?
    Not my video - it was posted by Kander.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111757106#post111757106

    I was responding to someone who mentioned bringing a copy of it on USB to the gardai.


  • #9867
    tnegun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Apologies for the language maybe turn it down :o after a stress free commute this am

    a contender for reporting under the new law
    https://streamable.com/uqh4w


    queue skipper nearly takes me out
    https://streamable.com/jfp9s


    Am really getting disillusioned with cycling to work now :(


  • #9868
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    tnegun wrote: »
    Apologies for the language maybe turn it down :o after a stress free commute this am

    a contender for reporting under the new law
    https://streamable.com/uqh4w


    queue skipper nearly takes me out
    https://streamable.com/jfp9s


    Am really getting disillusioned with cycling to work now :(

    I'd be reporting both, especially the q skipper


  • #9869
    Idleater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    tnegun wrote: »
    queue skipper nearly takes me out

    Was that car "indicating" right?

    The swan neck? :rolleyes:


  • #9870
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Aidan Doherty Transport Ltd. - I'm watching you. 2 close passes in as many days in the same area of the R127.


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  • #9871
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Seemingly the RSA can still be taken by surprise. Do they never wander outside? At all?

    https://twitter.com/RSAIreland/status/1195076435196731394


  • #9872
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    It’s impossible to drive at the speed limit without being overtaken or in some cases undertaken - the bus lanes around where I live are favourite. No matter what it is - 50kph or 120kph - you’ll have some clown up yer ass.

    My own record for someone speeding past me is 87kph in a 50kph zone while cycling into rathoath in co Meath. The red flashing “slow down” didn’t seem to deter that particular motorist early that Sunday morning.


  • #9873
    hesker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭hesker


    When I drive to work I travel on a section of narrow road with a 50kph limit. By the time I get to the end of it having driven at the limit there is a train of cars behind me and not a car to be seen in front. I’d say I’m much loved by my fellow commuters


  • #9874
    Garzard
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Garzard


    Meant to post this from October but didn't get around to it. Not the worst near miss but the ****hole in front of me ran the red, forcing the taxi at the left to brake hard and beep (well deserved). It happened in reverse then when the white Toyota Prius almost cut in front of me when my green light came. That said, although the audio is poor he did apologise saying he mistimed the lights somehow.



  • #9875
    RobertFoster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,229 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    Came in contact with a car this morning, but luckily managed to stay upright.

    I was at the centre line slowing down to turn right from a major to a minor road. No traffic in either direction, but a driver came to a stop on the minor road as I approached. She actually overshot the stop line (front two wheels over it), which is fairly common for that junction - when I cycle the opposite direction I make sure I'm out of the hard shoulder at that particular spot.

    I started to turn and at the same time she moved forward. I let a roar and she braked. The outside of my right foot ended up brushing the front corner of her bumper. The driver's window was down and I heard her apologise. Managed to correct myself and avoided ending up in the hedge.

    Still not sure which way the driver was going (no indicator). It's possible she was turning left and looking only right while edging forward. Or maybe she was going right, saw both ways as clear but didn't see me directly in front of her. The sun was up (not blinding either of us), I had lights on, and was wearing a brightly coloured jersey.


  • #9876
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    Allessandro de Marchi feels our pain too.


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  • #9877
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,478 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mr spuckler wrote: »
    Allessandro de Marchi feels our pain too.
    His own fault - he wasn't wearing hi-vis.


  • #9878
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I can understand his outrage given he's Italian and recent training collisions for them, poor Pozzovivo earlier this year, head on and uncertain future and Scarponi paying the ultimate price in 2017.


  • #9879
    Kander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭Kander


    This mornings fun was from a lane drifter in a van. Had to bang on the side to remind him/her I was still there.

    https://streamable.com/0fabj


  • #9880
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Idleater wrote: »
    Was that car "indicating" right?

    The swan neck? :rolleyes:


    Nope look again, a car has stopped just in front of him with its ass out as its bullying into the right lane. The bmw then swerves to go around the cars ass hence the pull - he/she did not look in mirror prior to doing it.


  • #9881
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Exodus 1811 wrote: »
    Aircoach broke the lights and continued through at North Wall Quay at the Samuel Beckett Bridge crossing this morning.

    - Lights go red for car traffic
    - Light goes green for bicycle traffic
    - Wreckless Aircoach driver continues on and slams on in the middle of the junction
    - Much cursing and blinding from everyone

    It seems like this is a hotspot due to the distance between ped/bicycle crossings. When I got to work I was wondering what can be done here, do I call the Guards? do I need footage? or do I just bitch on boards..

    All the coaches go up the bus lane going northbound over the bridge - no problem there, however the bus lane is a left turn only. The coaches then bully all c=(cars and bikes) to pull onto traffic as they go over the junction.

    This is EVERY, SINGLE, TIME.


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  • #9882
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Sitting in middle lane at lights across from Cornmarket Insurance (By Christchurch). I’m turning right towards St Patrick’s and as lights go green I very clearly indicate my intention. Very clearly. Arm out. Audi Q8 in right turn only lane comes barreling straight through. Luckily I always watch behind me and managed to just about avoid him. Car behind me must have seen as they didn’t honk as I was a little unsteady trying to recover. Was going to continue right but I was really really shaken and basically lost it and chased him down towards College Green. He was on the phone when I knocked on his window. I was calm and he was shocked. But not sure there was a lesson learned.

    My closest in ten years I’d say.


  • #9883
    papu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    I present Good Pass

    495581.JPG

    and Bad pass.

    495582.JPG

    Not posting a video as I've rang trafficwatch and made a complaint.

    What compels someone to overtake on a speedbump, with a traffic calming island.

    It's sad my battery died shortly after as I also saw a car break a set of lights at bushy park as they were turning shortly afterwards, and another car breaking a red light and crawling though a junction with pedestrian green lights in rathgar..


  • #9884
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I have been out of the country since thr new law came into force Judging by the continued number of posts on this thread, its deressing to see absolute no change in close pass frequency. I just wonder when we will get a figure on the number of motorists that got the fixed charge fine and points for the new offence. Its all about policing and enforcement of laws and my experience of both is they are not encouraging.


  • #9885
    micar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭micar


    Had an elderly woman turn right as I approaching.

    She wasn't evening looking. She was half way through the junction before she stopped......idiot.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yeBZKyvZY


  • #9886
    micar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭micar


    Not a near miss......but two cars ignoring unmarked garda car with sirens blaring


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZEfkU9xReI


  • #9887
    micar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭micar


    Had an unpleasant incident with van driver who took exception to me taking the lane as I approaching a right turn into my office.

    When he pulled along side me with the window down he hurled abuse at me.....camera didn't pick it up.

    I emailed his employer over the weekend to make him aware of what happened. His employer turns out to be recreational cyclist. He said he was going to speak to his employee.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7h2KMIQHJk


  • #9888
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Had a near miss in the slip lane that goes past the Spa Hotel on the N4. Idiot driver coming from Dodsboro decided to stare to their left as they pulled out not looking at me coming towards him at about 45km/h.
    I screamed at him as I'm passing the side and front of the car but he didn't turn his head.
    No idea how I wasn't hit to be honest.
    He obviously saw me after I passed and kept his distance until he got the courage to pass me outside the car dealership.
    Strong flashing front light and usual high viz-crap obviously can't make a cretin driver face traffic as they pull out!
    I'll check the rear camera when in the office tomorrow but reckon it won't show much. Need to get a forward facing camera.


  • #9889
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Well these all make my minor incident seem fairly minor. I’m on the Ballymun Road outbound near the petrol station, in the bus lane (due to the amount of left turns in quick succession there, I’ve started taking the bus lane rather than the cycle lane). White Toyota saloon overtakes in the lane to my right, then pulls straight across me with the indicator on, then stops at a 45 degree angle across the bus lane. I suspect they saw me as they were making the turn. Middle of the day, I’m right in the middle of the lane with a bright green jacket. Still, not as bad as the ones posted above!


  • #9890
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,212 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    just past there, i've had issues (while i'm headed outbound) with people heading inbound, but swinging right off ballymun road onto canice's road, and who simply don't have their radar on to detect cyclists.


  • #9891
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    just past there, i've had issues (while i'm headed outbound) with people heading inbound, but swinging right off ballymun road onto canice's road, and who simply don't have their radar on to detect cyclists.
    Yeah I’m counting Canice’s as one of the lefts. Though I haven’t had that happen (yet!)


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  • #9892
    tnegun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭tnegun


    micar wrote: »
    Had an unpleasant incident with van driver who took exception to me taking the lane as I approaching a right turn into my office.

    When he pulled along side me with the window down he hurled abuse at me.....camera didn't pick it up.

    I emailed his employer over the weekend to make him aware of what happened. His employer turns out to be recreational cyclist. He said he was going to speak to his employee.


    Thats shocking behaviour did he clip you with his mirror?


  • #9893
    Roberto_gas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas


    Almost hit a pedestrian who decided to cross road when signal was
    Red for him and he decided to just look one side before starting to cross...disc brakes to the rescue


  • #9894
    tnegun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Had a near miss in the slip lane that goes past the Spa Hotel on the N4. Idiot driver coming from Dodsboro decided to stare to their left as they pulled out not looking at me coming towards him at about 45km/h.


    That junction is lethal for it, even if they see you drivers completely underestimate how fast you're moving. I haven't had a hattrick there yet as I gave up using the bike lane and now avoid the N4 altogether. It is possible that by using the bike lane and timing it just right you can have a full 67x unload 20 or more passengers into the bike lane just before the junction then if you’ve safely avoided them very difficult as 50% will have their heads buried in their phones doing the zombie shuffle immediately after the bike lane re-joins the carriageway just short enough that drivers don’t notice so someone will left hook you if you’ve survived that far then you can be cut up by someone merging inconsiderately! I only ever managed 2/3 but came close on several occasions before I gave up on that stretch


  • #9895
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Breezer wrote: »
    Well these all make my minor incident seem fairly minor. I’m on the Ballymun Road outbound near the petrol station, in the bus lane (due to the amount of left turns in quick succession there, I’ve started taking the bus lane rather than the cycle lane). White Toyota saloon overtakes in the lane to my right, then pulls straight across me with the indicator on, then stops at a 45 degree angle across the bus lane. I suspect they saw me as they were making the turn. Middle of the day, I’m right in the middle of the lane with a bright green jacket. Still, not as bad as the ones posted above!

    That's a constant in that spot, either the turn for the school before the petrol station or the station itself. If you look back over my posts, my son was nearly knocked down there maybe five years ago by someone breaking a red light on the pedestrian. Hate that route.


  • #9896
    Harrybelafonte
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    tnegun wrote: »
    That junction is lethal for it, even if they see you drivers completely underestimate how fast you're moving. I haven't had a hattrick there yet as I gave up using the bike lane and now avoid the N4 altogether. It is possible that by using the bike lane and timing it just right you can have a full 67x unload 20 or more passengers into the bike lane just before the junction then if you’ve safely avoided them very difficult as 50% will have their heads buried in their phones doing the zombie shuffle immediately after the bike lane re-joins the carriageway just short enough that drivers don’t notice so someone will left hook you if you’ve survived that far then you can be cut up by someone merging inconsiderately! I only ever managed 2/3 but came close on several occasions before I gave up on that stretch

    Don't like even using that lane in the car. People just don't check properly and pull out, while those coming on to it from the N4 don't slow down. N4 is a nightmare for dirving anyhow. Insane amount of crashes on it


  • #9897
    HibernianRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭HibernianRunner


    Today at around 11.15 am on rathmines rd. lower heading away from town just before st. Mary's college. I was knocked off my bike by a silver car(don't know the make), flying out from a side road. Gave me no chance. I hit him at his left front wheel and went flying off my bike onto the path. The driver didn't stop and drove off. I was shocked. I got up and noticed a taxi across the road. I called out to him "Did you see what just happened?" He said in broken english "I saw, I saw" But he had a passenger he just picked up and drove away. I hadn't the presence of mind to ask for assistance.

    So I locked my bike and walked up to the garda station in rathmines to report what happened. But because I did not get the reg of the car that hit me nor the reg of the taxi who saw the incident that it was a slim chance they would be caught. They would check if there was any CCTV footage.

    Anyway it was while talking to the garda that the pain started to hit me in my left arm which had taking most of the brunt of the fall. I had to get an ambulance to St. James after initially turning it down thinking I was fine. So after around six hours in emergency I got x-rayed. I have a fracture in my left elbow but it should easily heal within 3/4 weeks. I just have to keep it in a sling and take painkillers.

    P.S I hope my bike is safe, I locked it outside Swann centre Gym/swimmimg pool. It will be there for a few days I expect.


  • #9898
    tnegun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Jesus sorry to hear that and glad you're ok.


  • #9899
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Ffs the Gardaí in Rathmines are bloody useless. I’ve had 3 incidents now reported to them and nothing came of them. And now youre involved in a hit and run with a fracture and it’s “ah sure look these things happen”. What the **** is wrong with people. Both the unbothered Gardaí and the driver for just heading on. Should have told the Gardaí you were a pedestrian and they’d be out looking for them.

    Hope you’re not too sore or out of work for too long. I’d be onto the staff in the pub at that junction yourself enquiring about cctv. I’ve had countless near misses there at rush hour but you’d think at 11am in a clear day you’d be grand.


  • #9900
    HibernianRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭HibernianRunner


    Thanks for the replies. I am a mature student in Rathmines College, studying full time so am not working. Luckily I am right handed so I can go back on thurs/fri If I feel ok and not miss too much studies. Looking back it was my ruck-sack that took most of blow of the fall. By the way I was wearing a hi-vis ruck-sack cover(flouresnt-yellow) and had my rear light on as well. Also there was a lull in the traffic, so no other cars involved, the road was quiet too. It was just me, and clear as daylight, no traffic lights either. The driver was just completely reckless. I am feeling a lot better thanks to nurofen now. One thing I wasn't wearing a helmet. I think I will in future as the first thing the guards asked was, "was I wearing a helmet?". The Doctors and nurses also kept asking me that as well.


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  • #9901
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    sy_flembeck wrote: »
    Ah look hold on a minute. By his own admission the OP says he had absolutely no details whatsoever and then had to go in an ambulance. What do you expect them to do, take a statement in the ambulance? All he has to do is call back and report it properly and make a statement. If by then there's no action then fair enough but your comment is completely OTT.

    I wish you well in your recovery Hibernian Runner

    He said “ But because I did not get the reg of the car that hit me nor the reg of the taxi who saw the incident that it was a slim chance they would be caught” and that he was a while with the Garda.

    As I said I’ve reported 3 incidents to that station and they’ve had 4K footage provided and still wouldn’t act. Their attitude is absolutely ****e.


This discussion has been closed.
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