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Non-Irish registered aircraft operating in Ireland

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  • 05-12-2019 2:45pm
    #1
    The_Outsider
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭


    Hi alll,
    I've noticed more and more non-Irish (EI) registered general aviation aircraft flying around the country these days. And these definitely wouldn't be visitors - helicopters being operated by fairly well known business people, flying schools etc. Mostly N (north america) and G-(UK) tags.


    With the humble car, if I imported a foreign registered car and didn't have it officially switched over to Irish plates in a certain (relatively short) period of time I would have a Customs team impound it.



    Can someone explain how these aircraft can operate on non-EI tags for so long please?



    Just curious. No agenda.
    Thanks.


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    #2
    eusap
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭eusap


    To reverse the Question, how can so many EI registered aircraft operate in other jurisdictions without paying tax?

    An Aircraft is registered for identity purposes but also for which jurisdiction the air worthiness/operating procedures is tested against. The company operating the aircraft are registered for tax purposes in which country they like.


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    #3
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    If you operate a G-reg'd aircraft in the Republic, you are supposed to have the IAA's permission to do so. I know of quite a few G-reg'd light aircraft operating here permanently and I believe the IAA turn a blind eye. After all, Irish airlines routinely hire in foreign aircraft and operate them here. Most, if not all, Irish flying schools, operate a few G-reg'd aircraft and they have to be signed off by CAA licensed engineers and the IAA carry out routine checks to make sure that the work and paperwork is up to scratch. Same for N-reg'd aircraft. There are also several aircraft from other European countries that are permanently based here. I also know that the IAA have written to the owners to get them to register the aircraft as Irish. All things are not created equally, though and in EASAland, some countries will not tolerate foreign aircraft being domiciled in their countries and will invite the owners to leave, despite all European countries being allegedly equal under EASA. If you tried to operate an Irish aircraft in a UK school, the CAA will soon be along to have a word....those of us wealthy enough to operate a private jet can register them where they like, consistent with their alleged domicile, which is why you tend to see M- and CS- reg'd aircraft around Ireland.


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    #4
    The_Outsider
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭The_Outsider


    No VRT in sight so :)
    Great, thanks for the info lads.


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    #5
    civdef
    Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    On a side note an awful lot of those G-Reg planes would be on vintage tax if they were cars, never mind VRT!


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    #6
    0lddog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    civdef wrote: »
    On a side note an awful lot of those G-Reg planes would be on vintage tax if they were cars, never mind VRT!
    Another case of The Brits sending their clapped out old bangers over here to pollute the place :P


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    #7
    billy few mates
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Most, if not all, Irish flying schools, operate a few G-reg'd aircraft and they have to be signed off by CAA licensed engineers

    You don't need to be CAA licenced to sign off a G registered aircraft, the UK are (currently) part of the EU so an EASA Part 66 license issued by any other member state is sufficient. You do however need an FAA A&P license to sign off a US (N registered) aircraft though unless you are an FAA approved repair station.


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    #8
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Most of the CS- private jets seen around the place are part of the NetJets fleet, which is headquartered in Portugal so it all fits

    The majority of the M- and 2- reg'd jets are a different story altogether.


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    #9
    Ryaner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭Ryaner


    What kind of costs are involved in actually registering a GA plane that is imported? And does that result in an IE reg?

    I found two calculators on the IAA site with a huge variance between them, from 170 to over 10k.


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    #10
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    if it's just a small GA aircraft, it's the lowest on the scale. You're not going to pay 10K on a Cessna 150. The actual registration fee is about 70 euros for a sequential registration or 700 for a non-sequential reg. and they send out details of letter size and location. Call the IAA registration office or dig it up on the website (which is not the easiest to navigate.


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    #11
    jippo nolan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭jippo nolan


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    If you operate a G-reg'd aircraft in the Republic, you are supposed to have the IAA's permission to do so. I know of quite a few G-reg'd light aircraft operating here permanently and I believe the IAA turn a blind eye. After all, Irish airlines routinely hire in foreign aircraft and operate them here. Most, if not all, Irish flying schools, operate a few G-reg'd aircraft and they have to be signed off by CAA licensed engineers and the IAA carry out routine checks to make sure that the work and paperwork is up to scratch. Same for N-reg'd aircraft. There are also several aircraft from other European countries that are permanently based here. I also know that the IAA have written to the owners to get them to register the aircraft as Irish. All things are not created equally, though and in EASAland, some countries will not tolerate foreign aircraft being domiciled in their countries and will invite the owners to leave, despite all European countries being allegedly equal under EASA. If you tried to operate an Irish aircraft in a UK school, the CAA will soon be along to have a word....those of us wealthy enough to operate a private jet can register them where they like, consistent with their alleged domicile, which is why you tend to see M- and CS- reg'd aircraft around Ireland.
    Redacted!


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    #12
    martinsvi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭martinsvi


    I want to turn this question upside down - I've never understood how come Ireland can legally enforce tax on a used car that's coming from another EU state and for which the tax has already been paid? I've friends living in Germany, they have bought a car in Poland, bringing it across to German licence place costs pennies.

    As an Ex-G-reg plane owner, the reason why I didn't bring it over to Irish reg - you're not just looking at registration/tax for IAA, you also need to repaint it, re-do all the paper work, re-assigning your Mode-S transponder is a complete separate cost, one way or another you are looking at 4 digit costs. Then you have to keep in mind that whenever time comes to sell it, it is far easier to sell it with a G reg- your market is bigger - brits are not keen in buying EI reg aircraft


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    #13
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,387 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    martinsvi wrote: »
    I want to turn this question upside down - I've never understood how come Ireland can legally enforce tax on a used car that's coming from another EU state and for which the tax has already been paid? I've friends living in Germany, they have bought a car in Poland, bringing it across to German licence place costs pennies.


    They have it set as a tax to obtain a registration plate, you pay to register the car here, you are free to bring any car over 6 months old and/or 6000kms from any EU country and not pay a cent in VRT provided you don't use it on a public road. Kind of useless though unless you want to use it on a racetrack :mad:


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    #14
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Try going the other way, bringing an Irish aircraft to the UK. You'll be told to change to G in short order and the costs are the same. You go to Germany or Switzerland with a foreign aircraft and you'll have lots of fun there. First up will be the Noise certificate (ye what, Gay?) and the need to fit a Swiss Muffler or get it out of the country, tout suite. The IAA are pussycats to deal with compared to the regulatory authorities in some European countries. Operation of a homebuilt or classic or microlight is much, much easier here than in many European countries. As for selling EI aircraft to the UK, if it's clean and the logbooks are up to date and all ADs and SBs complied with, it will sell.


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    #15
    jippo nolan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭jippo nolan


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Try going the other way, bringing an Irish aircraft to the UK. You'll be told to change to G in short order and the costs are the same. You go to Germany or Switzerland with a foreign aircraft and you'll have lots of fun there. First up will be the Noise certificate (ye what, Gay?) and the need to fit a Swiss Muffler or get it out of the country, tout suite. The IAA are pussycats to deal with compared to the regulatory authorities in some European countries. Operation of a homebuilt or classic or microlight is much, much easier here than in many European countries. As for selling EI aircraft to the UK, if it's clean and the logbooks are up to date and all ADs and SBs complied with, it will sell.

    The pink cards?


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    #16
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Gay as in Gay Byrne. One of his catch phrases.......UK logbooks have green and yellow pages at the back that list all ADs, SBs and Modifications and most, if not all, tend to have them well filled out. I have encountered more than a few Irish logbooks that needed quite a bit of attention before selling on an aircraft.


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