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All's not well in FG.

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  • Options
    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    This makes absolutely no sense , poor attempt at deflection tbh. The two former I4C TDs are currently occupying seats in Europe.
    FG did expect to hold the seat vacated by F Fitzgerald.

    FG lost ONE seat. I4C lost TWO. I contend that the biggest loser were I4C rather than FG. Not hard to understand, really.


  • Options
    #33
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I can't see him as Taoiseach. He was around Bertie's cabinet. People won't vote him back.


    I will be voting FG (as I have done since 2011) as there is no other credible option.

    Well..the FF vote in Arklow town at the Council and EU elections was greater than 50% of first preference
    So I think you are wrong there
    People are fickle


  • Options
    #34
    Horsebox9000
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Horsebox9000


    ELM327 wrote: »
    FF are more left wing hair brained fiscally though. Ah sure give the pensioners and the dolers more money.






    FG are more to the right compared to FF, (fiscally not socially), I think they manage the finances better, therefore I will continue to vote FG until a right wing party with liberal social policies comes along

    This

    I will never vote FF as I don't agree with them socially.
    Hands down we would have never got the same sex and abortion referendums if they were ruling during the period.
    It would upset their old Catholic base too much and sometimes I wonder if FF are similar to SF. Instead of the IRA calling the shots in the background it's actually Diarmud Martin


  • Options
    #35
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    ELM327 wrote: »
    FF are more left wing hair brained fiscally though. Ah sure give the pensioners and the dolers more money.






    FG are more to the right compared to FF, (fiscally not socially), I think they manage the finances better, therefore I will continue to vote FG until a right wing party with liberal social policies comes along

    Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.


  • Options
    #36
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Well FF are another option but there are in no way alternative. FF AND FG ARE THE SAME ****ING PARTY!! There will be exactly zero difference in the experience of the ordinary worker if FF win. Although I am so sick of Leo and Co's pathetic waffle that i'd probably welcome a change of faeces.

    Fixed that there for ya.


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    #37
    atticu
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭atticu


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

    You are correct, FF made a complete mess of those.


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    #38
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

    Ok Irish water
    But the children's hospital and rural broadband?
    Do you think we need neither ?

    The anti FG stuff has some legs but it doesn't have formula one tyres
    It's just the usual boredom and looking for something to moan about target practice


  • Options
    #39
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,457 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Horsebox9000 wrote: »
    This

    I will never vote FF as I don't agree with them socially.
    Hands down we would have never got the same sex and abortion referendums if they were ruling during the period.
    It would upset their old Catholic base too much and sometimes I wonder if FF are similar to SF. Instead of the IRA calling the shots in the background it's actually Diarmud Martin


    So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.


  • Options
    #40
    Horsebox9000
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Horsebox9000


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

    Comparing that with crashing the country?


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    #41
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    FG lost ONE seat. I4C lost TWO. I contend that the biggest loser were I4C rather than FG. Not hard to understand, really.

    Are I4C a party ,were they running candidates?
    You can say the biggest loser's were I4C all you want but the political narrative is FG are the losers and Leo. The two articles I linked reference Leo and co and that's what the public will read.


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    #42
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.

    Would a billion for new nurses fix it? Nope
    Why is the UK and France short of nurses?

    This "simple' attitude to health services that creak in countries far wealthier than Ireland is 2 things
    1. An example of the boredom and need to moan mentioned in my last post
    2.cloud cuckoo land


    https://www2.staffingindustry.com/eng/Editorial/Daily-News/Europe-Demand-for-nursing-staff-on-the-rise-UK-sees-biggest-shortage-of-nurses-44699


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    #43
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    FF may win an election despite martin being leader, not because of him.

    I think that there is a degree of truth in that, but is there anyone to challenge to challenge MM? Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Willie O'Dea... I can kind of understand the reluctance of any potential cabals from forming if those are the options, I'm not certain that they are much more electable than MM


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    #44
    The Hound Gone Wild
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭The Hound Gone Wild


    Never voted FG before but all things in I don't think he's done a bad job. Healthcare is in crisis (but when has it not been?) and housing is an issue that can't be fixed in one or even two election cycles. I'm mostly of the opinion that it is your responsibility to house your family. Massive social housing projects inevitably lead to wide spread social issues see Ballymun & Finglas. (I grew up in one of these areas before anyone jumps in)

    Investment in transport infrastructure is the solution. You should be able to draw an arc from Dundalk through Athlone and down to Wexford, and have everyone in that arc be in a one hour commute to Dublin city centre. Investment in Cork, Limerick & Galway to take the stress off of Dublin.


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    #45
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The delusion here is staggering. How many fake accounts have you set up here Leo ? How many posters are you here ?

    Given many of you are such fg fanboys , you’ll know varadkar proposed creating fake online accounts on forums like these to try to increase support


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    #46
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Well..the FF vote in Arklow town at the Council and EU elections was greater than 50% of first preference
    So I think you are wrong there
    People are fickle


    Yes, Arklow is a great measure of Micheal Martin, That's his constituency.


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.


    You mean, attempted privatisation and public pushback?


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    #47
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »
    Never voted FG before but all things in I don't think he's done a bad job. Healthcare is in crisis (but when has it not been?) and housing is an issue that can't be fixed in one or even two election cycles. I'm mostly of the opinion that it is your responsibility to house your family. Massive social housing projects inevitably lead to wide spread social issues see Ballymun & Finglas. (I grew up in one of these areas before anyone jumps in)

    Investment in transport infrastructure is the solution. You should be able to draw an arc from Dundalk through Athlone and down to Wexford, and have everyone in that arc be in a one hour commute to Dublin city centre. Investment in Cork, Limerick & Galway to take the stress off of Dublin.

    Not one major infrastructure project under construction of national importance. Housing will be sorted ? For who. They have achieved their goal , sky high prices and life Long serfs being made of workers. What’s your opinion on th free luxury apartment block being leased for social housing by the council in Dundrum ? Three thousand a month some of them command at market rent ...?


  • Options
    #48
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    I think that there is a degree of truth in that, but is there anyone to challenge to challenge MM? Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Willie O'Dea... I can kind of understand the reluctance of any potential cabals from forming if those are the options, I'm not certain that they are much more electable than MM
    The most coherent, dogged,brutal, yet 'man of the people's FF t.d at the moment is Ray McSharry's son
    If he doesn't reach leadership there,its their loss imho


  • Options
    #49
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.


    Remind me again, who created the HSE and introduced healthcare in its current format? I don't think you'll find Leo behind this.


    (I do agree that, with the amount we pay for the HSE, it should be free at point of use like the NHS)


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The delusion here is staggering. How many fake accounts have you set up here Leo ? How many posters are you here ?

    Given many of you are such fg fanboys , you’ll know varadkar proposed creating fake online accounts on forums like these to try to increase support


    I'm no fake account, nor am I indian or gay either (in fact many posters here accuse me of being prejudiced against one or both of the above groups). Just someone interested in politics calling it as I see it.


  • Options
    #50
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    FG are lining themselves up for something of a schism. Or rather, Varadkar is. The core of the party is centre-right, but being "on message" with Varadkar has been partly centre-left and partly centre-right.

    I think this has played OK in the electorate through the last few shaky years, but the hypocrisy is becoming increasingly apparent. They talk the talk about taking care of the vulnerable, but don't reflect that when it comes to housing and social welfare. They talk tough on taxation and spending, but there's no sign of taxing high earnings or clamping down on wasteful spending. They say they're serious about climate change, but are sitting on their hands.

    Trying to be all things to all people will fail them eventually. The electorate will see through Varadkar's bull, or party members will defect to parties that have a clearer agenda.


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    #51
    The Hound Gone Wild
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭The Hound Gone Wild


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Not one major infrastructure project under construction of national importance. Housing will be sorted ? For who. They have achieved their goal , sky high prices and life Long serfs being made of workers. What’s your opinion on th free luxury apartment block being leased for social housing by the council in Dundrum ? Three thousand a month some of them command at market rent ...?

    You're right, there isn't, there should be though. If a billion euro investment in train lines were to be announced the usual suspects would be up in arms about housing or homelessness. Nobody would take the risk.

    It's an astonishingly bad decision. I still can't believe it. Hardly the fault of Varadker or even FG. DLRD CCs responsibility. It's a mix of every party from what I can tell.


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    #52
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,367 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    National Children's hospital and National Boardband plan are not examples of a party that manage the state finances in a prudent manner.


    Yet if they did nothing the rent a mob would be complaining about no childrens hospital for de childer, joe.


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Have u seen the thread on the luxury apartments been given to the dolers ? This is happening on fg watch !!

    Rewarding work , lol!! Another party that rewards sitting on your h*le!!
    I agree but it was and will be worse under FF


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    #53
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Let’s be honest varadkar is nowhere near as good a leader as the spin led FG to believe

    They backed the wrong horse

    What horse should they have backed? I have no time for Varadkar for the record. Ditto for Coveney.
    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    If FF had any sort of competent leadership, they would have ousted FG already. FG ran rings around Martin, imagine him on the world stage getting absolutely mugged off by strongman leaders.

    When did they run rings around them? FF are the ultimate cute hoors. They are holding off until the general election.
    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Any government who thinks its ok to spend €3,000 a month to rent plush Dundrum flats off a cuckoo fund for social housing has lost the run of itself. Pure and simple.

    I agree with you 100% but I think this will be the norm under future governments. €3,000 per month! Something seriously wrong in this country, for sure. Wonder what the rent will be for those tenants.


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    #54
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    seamus wrote: »
    FG are lining themselves up for something of a schism. Or rather, Varadkar is. The core of the party is centre-right, but being "on message" with Varadkar has been partly centre-left and partly centre-right.

    I think this has played OK in the electorate through the last few shaky years, but the hypocrisy is becoming increasingly apparent. They talk the talk about taking care of the vulnerable, but don't reflect that when it comes to housing and social welfare. They talk tough on taxation and spending, but there's no sign of taxing high earnings or clamping down on wasteful spending. They say they're serious about climate change, but are sitting on their hands.

    Trying to be all things to all people will fail them eventually. The electorate will see through Varadkar's bull, or party members will defect to parties that have a clearer agenda.

    You've just defined government:)


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The delusion here is staggering. How many fake accounts have you set up here Leo ? How many posters are you here ?

    Given many of you are such fg fanboys , you’ll know varadkar proposed creating fake online accounts on forums like these to try to increase support

    Losing the argument or the plot, Id?


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    #56
    Sloppy_Joe
    Site Banned Posts: 135 ✭✭Sloppy_Joe


    Fine Gael took over in 2011 and took over at the bottom and were in power while the economy recovered and they should have seen the benefit of that, however they declined in 2016.

    Now, we're 3/4 years later and things have gotten worse. FG are going to suffer and thankfully!


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    #57
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.

    Not sure what you are trying to say here. Abortion was supported by every single major party.
    Horsebox9000 wrote: »
    I will never vote FF as I don't agree with them socially.

    What do you disagree with them on?
    Horsebox9000 wrote: »
    Hands down we would have never got the same sex and abortion referendums if they were ruling during the period.

    Nonsense. They promoted a 'Yes' vote for SSM and abortion. They supported divorce also.
    Horsebox9000 wrote: »
    It would upset their old Catholic base too much and sometimes I wonder if FF are similar to SF. Instead of the IRA calling the shots in the background it's actually Diarmud Martin

    SF and FF were much of a muchness for a few years but SF are a shambles at the moment. I've a very good friend who is a long time member of SF and he is thinking about quitting. Described the goings on in Dublin-Mid-West this week as a circus. Still livid over the MON vote. The FF RC base is long gone.


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    #58
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Berserker wrote: »
    .



    When did they run rings around them? FF are the ultimate cute hoors. They are holding off until the general election.


    They got into a 3 year confidence and supply agreement and were going into the 4th year of it, "for the national interest".

    When election time hits, anything that Martin highlights as FG failures, the other parties will just say "hold on, you could have pulled the plug on that anytime".

    He has been absolutely mugged off.


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    #59
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    They got into a 3 year confidence and supply agreement and were going into the 4th year of it, "for the national interest".

    When election time hits, anything that Martin highlights as FG failures, the other parties will just say "hold on, you could have pulled the plug on that anytime".

    He has been absolutely mugged off.

    To which Martin can answer Brexit wouldn't allow us
    So No,you're wrong on that


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    #60
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,515 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    To which Martin can answer Brexit wouldn't allow us
    So No,you're wrong on that

    Paddy is a fool if he swallows that. Frances Fitzgeralds removal was the right thing to do for incompetence alone, let alone Murphy. FF have ducked these issues and Brexit has nothing to do with it.


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    #61
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    They got into a 3 year confidence and supply agreement and were going into the 4th year of it, "for the national interest".

    When election time hits, anything that Martin highlights as FG failures, the other parties will just say "hold on, you could have pulled the plug on that anytime".

    He has been absolutely mugged off.

    Nope, MM and FF can push the stability line and use the Brexit line to support that. Brexit overrides everything at the moment. Can even throw in some nonsense about the border to appease the republicans. They'll love that.


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