All's not well in FG.

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 10:22am #1

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-faces-backlash-as-fg-set-to-abandon-verona-murphy-38744117.html

Seems Leo is going to learn a leadership lesson the hard way. Several FG TDs worried about their place on the gravy train.

Idbatterim · 02-12-2019 10:24am

I suppose there is only so long a party can get by on talk and waffle!

Good riddance to the snake !

ednwireland · 02-12-2019 10:25am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-faces-backlash-as-fg-set-to-abandon-verona-murphy-38744117.html

Seems Leo is going to learn a leadership lesson the hard way. Several FG TDs worried about their place on the gravy train.

lets be honest half the party didnt want varadkar in in the first place, so i suspect at the first opportunity he will be gone he doesnt seem like he has teh politcal smarts to out manouvre opponents (i could bre wrong on that one though)
hes ok until the election though - if that goes badly i would think he would be gone

Beechwoodspark · 02-12-2019 10:27am

Let’s be honest varadkar is nowhere near as good a leader as the spin led FG to believe

They backed the wrong horse

Beechwoodspark · 02-12-2019 10:27am

ednwireland wrote: »

lets be honest half the party didnt want varadkar in in the first place, so i suspect at the first opportunity he will be gone he doesnt seem like he has teh politcal smarts to out manouvre opponents (i could bre wrong on that one though)
hes ok until the election though - if that goes badly i would think he would be gone

Off on the first flight to Brussels for a cushy number no doubt.

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 10:29am

I don't think leo has done badly as Taoiseach, just not been remarkable.
I'd prefer him to smarmy Micheal Martin - who - lest we forget - was part of FF cabinet in the bad old days of corruption.

Coveney would probably be a better bet than either. But it's difficult to be Taoiseach when the vocal minority of lunatics are being elected from far left

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 10:32am

Kate's brother putting the boot in.....
https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/hugh-oconnell-stage-is-set-for-the-next-government-and-it-wont-involve-fine-gael-or-sinn-fin-38744114.html

Richard Hillman · 02-12-2019 10:35am

If FF had any sort of competent leadership, they would have ousted FG already. FG ran rings around Martin, imagine him on the world stage getting absolutely mugged off by strongman leaders.

Leo will feck off to the EU. All those years of bootlicking will pay off for him.

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 10:39am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If FF had any sort of competent leadership, they would have ousted FG already. FG ran rings around Martin, imagine him on the world stage getting absolutely mugged off by strongman leaders.

Leo will feck off to the EU. All those years of bootlicking will pay off for him.

+1

I think Martin is destined for his place in history all the same.....

.... first FF leader not to be taoiseach

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 10:42am

ELM327 wrote: »

+1

I think Martin is destined for his place in history all the same.....

.... first FF leader not to be taoiseach

No fan of MM or FF but he's on target to be Taoiseach as it currently stands. Too much going against FG for them to be returned to power, far too many screw ups. Martin played the game and he's winning tbh.

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 10:47am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No fan of MM or FF but he's on target to be Taoiseach as it currently stands. Too much going against FG for them to be returned to power, far too many screw ups. Martin played the game and he's winning tbh.

I can't see him as Taoiseach. He was around Bertie's cabinet. People won't vote him back.

I will be voting FG (as I have done since 2011) as there is no other credible option.

Horsebox9000 · 02-12-2019 10:50am

It's a bye election folks calm down. They never go good for ruling party

suicide_circus · 02-12-2019 10:51am

Simon Coveney ready to pounce!

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 10:55am

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

It's a bye election folks calm down. They never go good for ruling party

It's 4 bye elections where the ruling party lost an established seat and failed to win others.

I agree it's not the end of the road or anything but the thread is valid.

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 10:55am

ELM327 wrote: »

I can't see him as Taoiseach. He was around Bertie's cabinet. People won't vote him back.

I will be voting FG (as I have done since 2011) as there is no other credible option.

It's doesn't matter whether you see him as Taoiseach or not, he has been returned by his constituency in 2011/2016 he has already been voted for twice, two seats gained in the Bye elections seems the voters have accepted a rehabilitated FF, as an aside FF's rehabilitation is to a degree the responsibility of FG.
Ah the no other 'credible option', I remember hearing that repeatably said about the out going FG/LAB government in 2016. Didn't work out too well iirc .

suicide_circus · 02-12-2019 11:01am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ah the no other 'credible option'

Well FF are another option but there are in no way alternative. FF AND FG ARE THE SAME ****ING PARTY!! There will be exactly zero difference in the experience of the ordinary worker if FF win. Although I am so sick of Leo and Co's pathetic waffle that i'd probably welcome a change of faces.

Idbatterim · 02-12-2019 11:04am

ELM327 wrote: »

I can't see him as Taoiseach. He was around Bertie's cabinet. People won't vote him back.

I will be voting FG (as I have done since 2011) as there is no other credible option.

Last two elections I voted fg. No other credible option ? Fg are currently a credible option ? They are ff , but with more arrogance !

Sloppy_Joe · 02-12-2019 11:05am

Get Martin back in the seat instead of those posh boys.

When a recession comes we'll be suffering anyways so we might as well enjoy the good times, not suffering like we are now.

Colonel Claptrap · 02-12-2019 11:06am

ELM327 wrote: »

It's 4 bye elections where the ruling party lost an established seat and failed to win others.

I agree it's not the end of the road or anything but the thread is valid.

Ruling parties have lost the last 40 by-elections bar one.

Winning a seat on friday would have been a herculean achievement.

Idbatterim · 02-12-2019 11:06am

Sloppy_Joe wrote: »

Get Martin back in the seat instead of those posh boys.

When a recession comes we'll be suffering anyways so we might as well enjoy the good times, not suffering like we are now.

Hopefully we get the imf back in. One humility in a few years isn’t enough obviously

odyssey06 · 02-12-2019 11:07am

Not a fan of Leo but they came 2nd in 3 of the by-elections except where they ran a washed up dinosaur (Reilly).
It's a bad result in terms of the arithmetic of the Dail for sure but then as governing party running TDs for Europe was going to make yourself a hostage to fortune.

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 11:07am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well FF are another option but there are in no way alternative. FF AND FG ARE THE SAME ****ING PARTY!! There will be exactly zero difference in the experience of the ordinary worker if FF win. Although I am so sick of Leo and Co's pathetic waffle that i'd probably welcome a change of faces.

FF are more left wing hair brained fiscally though. Ah sure give the pensioners and the dolers more money.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Last two elections I voted fg. No other credible option ? Fg are currently a credible option ? They are ff , but with more arrogance !

FG are more to the right compared to FF, (fiscally not socially), I think they manage the finances better, therefore I will continue to vote FG until a right wing party with liberal social policies comes along

Eric Cartman · 02-12-2019 11:10am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No fan of MM or FF but he's on target to be Taoiseach as it currently stands. Too much going against FG for them to be returned to power, far too many screw ups. Martin played the game and he's winning tbh.

FF may win an election despite martin being leader, not because of him.

I have a feeling the indo are being nice to FF lately because they see that FF would be more amenable to the broadcasting charge and use it as a slush fund to prop up INM and RTE , watch this space, if martin ends up in the hot seat we’ll be back to bailing out failed institutions.

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 11:11am

ELM327 wrote: »

FG are more to the right compared to FF, (fiscally not socially), I think they manage the finances better, therefore I will continue to vote FG until a right wing party with liberal social policies comes along

National Children's hospital and National Boardband plan are not examples of a party that manage the state finances in a prudent manner.

Idbatterim · 02-12-2019 11:12am

Have u seen the thread on the luxury apartments been given to the dolers ? This is happening on fg watch !!

Rewarding work , lol!! Another party that rewards sitting on your h*le!!

02-12-2019 11:12am

Independents 4 Change lost two seats to FG’s one. Just sayin!

Sitting government’s rarely do good in by elections.

02-12-2019 11:15am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Have u seen the thread on the luxury apartments been given to the dolers ? This is happening on fg watch !!

Rewarding work , lol!! Another party that rewards sitting on your h*le!!

Where did it say luxury or other apartments are being given to doalers? Your lack of understanding of the tree “social housing” shows your ignorance of real workers lives.

suicide_circus · 02-12-2019 11:16am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

National Children's hospital and National Boardband plan are not examples of a party that manage the state finances in a prudent manner.

true. but look at the stuff FF presided over last time round. many of the same people still knocking around including MM! The report recommending the new Children's Hospital came out in 2006.

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 11:20am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Independents 4 Change lost two seats to FG’s one. Just sayin!

This makes absolutely no sense , poor attempt at deflection tbh. The two former I4C TDs are currently occupying seats in Europe.
FG did expect to hold the seat vacated by F Fitzgerald.

For Forks Sake · 02-12-2019 11:20am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Have u seen the thread on the luxury apartments been given to the dolers ? This is happening on fg watch !!

Rewarding work , lol!! Another party that rewards sitting on your h*le!!

FG are in a minority (13/39) on DLR county council, which is delivering that scheme...

http://ecouncil.dlrcoco.ie:9071/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=PARTY

10000maniacs · 02-12-2019 11:25am

Any government who thinks its ok to spend €3,000 a month to rent plush Dundrum flats off a cuckoo fund for social housing has lost the run of itself. Pure and simple.
It shows contempt for the long suffering hard working people who have to commute from Wexford and Portlaoise to hold down a job in Dublin.
But Michael Martin presided over that other shower of gob****es who put the country into receivership 10 years ago.
We have literally nobody to vote for.

02-12-2019 11:25am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense , poor attempt at deflection tbh. The two former I4C TDs are currently occupying seats in Europe.
FG did expect to hold the seat vacated by F Fitzgerald.

FG lost ONE seat. I4C lost TWO. I contend that the biggest loser were I4C rather than FG. Not hard to understand, really.

Mortelaro · 02-12-2019 11:25am

ELM327 wrote: »

I can't see him as Taoiseach. He was around Bertie's cabinet. People won't vote him back.

I will be voting FG (as I have done since 2011) as there is no other credible option.

Well..the FF vote in Arklow town at the Council and EU elections was greater than 50% of first preference
So I think you are wrong there
People are fickle

Horsebox9000 · 02-12-2019 11:28am

ELM327 wrote: »

FF are more left wing hair brained fiscally though. Ah sure give the pensioners and the dolers more money.

FG are more to the right compared to FF, (fiscally not socially), I think they manage the finances better, therefore I will continue to vote FG until a right wing party with liberal social policies comes along

This

I will never vote FF as I don't agree with them socially.
Hands down we would have never got the same sex and abortion referendums if they were ruling during the period.
It would upset their old Catholic base too much and sometimes I wonder if FF are similar to SF. Instead of the IRA calling the shots in the background it's actually Diarmud Martin

McMurphy · 02-12-2019 11:31am

ELM327 wrote: »

FF are more left wing hair brained fiscally though. Ah sure give the pensioners and the dolers more money.

FG are more to the right compared to FF, (fiscally not socially), I think they manage the finances better, therefore I will continue to vote FG until a right wing party with liberal social policies comes along

Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

Auguste Comte · 02-12-2019 11:36am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well FF are another option but there are in no way alternative. FF AND FG ARE THE SAME ****ING PARTY!! There will be exactly zero difference in the experience of the ordinary worker if FF win. Although I am so sick of Leo and Co's pathetic waffle that i'd probably welcome a change of faeces.

Fixed that there for ya.

atticu · 02-12-2019 11:38am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

You are correct, FF made a complete mess of those.

Mortelaro · 02-12-2019 11:38am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

Ok Irish water
But the children's hospital and rural broadband?
Do you think we need neither ?

The anti FG stuff has some legs but it doesn't have formula one tyres
It's just the usual boredom and looking for something to moan about target practice

Charles Babbage · 02-12-2019 11:39am

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

This

I will never vote FF as I don't agree with them socially.
Hands down we would have never got the same sex and abortion referendums if they were ruling during the period.
It would upset their old Catholic base too much and sometimes I wonder if FF are similar to SF. Instead of the IRA calling the shots in the background it's actually Diarmud Martin

So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.

Horsebox9000 · 02-12-2019 11:40am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

Comparing that with crashing the country?

Plumbthedepths · 02-12-2019 11:40am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

FG lost ONE seat. I4C lost TWO. I contend that the biggest loser were I4C rather than FG. Not hard to understand, really.

Are I4C a party ,were they running candidates?
You can say the biggest loser's were I4C all you want but the political narrative is FG are the losers and Leo. The two articles I linked reference Leo and co and that's what the public will read.

Mortelaro · 02-12-2019 11:45am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.

Would a billion for new nurses fix it? Nope
Why is the UK and France short of nurses?

This "simple' attitude to health services that creak in countries far wealthier than Ireland is 2 things
1. An example of the boredom and need to moan mentioned in my last post
2.cloud cuckoo land

https://www2.staffingindustry.com/eng/Editorial/Daily-News/Europe-Demand-for-nursing-staff-on-the-rise-UK-sees-biggest-shortage-of-nurses-44699

El Tarangu · 02-12-2019 11:57am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

FF may win an election despite martin being leader, not because of him.

I think that there is a degree of truth in that, but is there anyone to challenge to challenge MM? Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Willie O'Dea... I can kind of understand the reluctance of any potential cabals from forming if those are the options, I'm not certain that they are much more electable than MM

The Hound Gone Wild · 02-12-2019 11:59am

Never voted FG before but all things in I don't think he's done a bad job. Healthcare is in crisis (but when has it not been?) and housing is an issue that can't be fixed in one or even two election cycles. I'm mostly of the opinion that it is your responsibility to house your family. Massive social housing projects inevitably lead to wide spread social issues see Ballymun & Finglas. (I grew up in one of these areas before anyone jumps in)

Investment in transport infrastructure is the solution. You should be able to draw an arc from Dundalk through Athlone and down to Wexford, and have everyone in that arc be in a one hour commute to Dublin city centre. Investment in Cork, Limerick & Galway to take the stress off of Dublin.

Idbatterim · 02-12-2019 12:03pm

The delusion here is staggering. How many fake accounts have you set up here Leo ? How many posters are you here ?

Given many of you are such fg fanboys , you’ll know varadkar proposed creating fake online accounts on forums like these to try to increase support

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 12:04pm

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well..the FF vote in Arklow town at the Council and EU elections was greater than 50% of first preference
So I think you are wrong there
People are fickle

Yes, Arklow is a great measure of Micheal Martin, That's his constituency.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Check out how they managed the finances surrounding Irish Water, Children's hospital, broadband.

You mean, attempted privatisation and public pushback?

Idbatterim · 02-12-2019 12:05pm

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

Never voted FG before but all things in I don't think he's done a bad job. Healthcare is in crisis (but when has it not been?) and housing is an issue that can't be fixed in one or even two election cycles. I'm mostly of the opinion that it is your responsibility to house your family. Massive social housing projects inevitably lead to wide spread social issues see Ballymun & Finglas. (I grew up in one of these areas before anyone jumps in)

Investment in transport infrastructure is the solution. You should be able to draw an arc from Dundalk through Athlone and down to Wexford, and have everyone in that arc be in a one hour commute to Dublin city centre. Investment in Cork, Limerick & Galway to take the stress off of Dublin.

Not one major infrastructure project under construction of national importance. Housing will be sorted ? For who. They have achieved their goal , sky high prices and life Long serfs being made of workers. What’s your opinion on th free luxury apartment block being leased for social housing by the council in Dundrum ? Three thousand a month some of them command at market rent ...?

Mortelaro · 02-12-2019 12:05pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

I think that there is a degree of truth in that, but is there anyone to challenge to challenge MM? Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Willie O'Dea... I can kind of understand the reluctance of any potential cabals from forming if those are the options, I'm not certain that they are much more electable than MM

The most coherent, dogged,brutal, yet 'man of the people's FF t.d at the moment is Ray McSharry's son
If he doesn't reach leadership there,its their loss imho

ELM327 · 02-12-2019 12:11pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

So we have abortion on demand and free, but if you are actually ill then you lie on trolley for a week and they charge you. This encapsulates FG priorities exactly.

Remind me again, who created the HSE and introduced healthcare in its current format? I don't think you'll find Leo behind this.

(I do agree that, with the amount we pay for the HSE, it should be free at point of use like the NHS)

Idbatterim wrote: »

The delusion here is staggering. How many fake accounts have you set up here Leo ? How many posters are you here ?

Given many of you are such fg fanboys , you’ll know varadkar proposed creating fake online accounts on forums like these to try to increase support

I'm no fake account, nor am I indian or gay either (in fact many posters here accuse me of being prejudiced against one or both of the above groups). Just someone interested in politics calling it as I see it.

seamus · 02-12-2019 12:11pm

FG are lining themselves up for something of a schism. Or rather, Varadkar is. The core of the party is centre-right, but being "on message" with Varadkar has been partly centre-left and partly centre-right.

I think this has played OK in the electorate through the last few shaky years, but the hypocrisy is becoming increasingly apparent. They talk the talk about taking care of the vulnerable, but don't reflect that when it comes to housing and social welfare. They talk tough on taxation and spending, but there's no sign of taxing high earnings or clamping down on wasteful spending. They say they're serious about climate change, but are sitting on their hands.

Trying to be all things to all people will fail them eventually. The electorate will see through Varadkar's bull, or party members will defect to parties that have a clearer agenda.

The Hound Gone Wild · 02-12-2019 12:13pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Not one major infrastructure project under construction of national importance. Housing will be sorted ? For who. They have achieved their goal , sky high prices and life Long serfs being made of workers. What’s your opinion on th free luxury apartment block being leased for social housing by the council in Dundrum ? Three thousand a month some of them command at market rent ...?

You're right, there isn't, there should be though. If a billion euro investment in train lines were to be announced the usual suspects would be up in arms about housing or homelessness. Nobody would take the risk.

It's an astonishingly bad decision. I still can't believe it. Hardly the fault of Varadker or even FG. DLRD CCs responsibility. It's a mix of every party from what I can tell.

All's not well in FG.

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