Nomination of foreign resident for penalty points offences

Credit Checker Moose · 01-03-2019 2:08am #1

This is purely a hypothetical situation.

Some one visiting from abroad, lets say the continental EU loans a car from an Irish resident car owner and is captured speeding by Gosafe/Garda van.

The registered owner receives a notice and completes the nomination with the visitors details.

Is this the end of the matter for the registered owner? Would the Gardaí simply accept the nomination or would they comeback seeking proof that Mr X was driving at the material time?

Peregrinus · 01-03-2019 3:12am

They may look further into it, since there are some fairly high-profile cases recently of people falsely nominating others, to avoid incurring fines/penalty points/suspensions. And if you nominate somebody who is conveniently beyond the reach of the law, the possibility that you might be doing this could occur to them.

It's a serious matter. Note that if the guards do look into it, and they find evidence that, yeah, you lied about this, your concern is not that they will pursue you for the speeding offence. They will charge you with perjury and/or perverting the course of justice and, if convicted, you will very likely go to gaol.

But it's not enough that they suspect that you lied; they need to be able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt. They might do this, for example, by finding other evidence - e.g. from traffic cameras on the day, in which you are recognisable as the driver. Or they might find evidence that the person you nominated was not in Ireland at the time. There's an Australian judge (well, ex-judge now, obviously) who spent two years in prison because the foreign visitor he nominated turned out to have been three years' dead at the time.)

Marcusm · 01-03-2019 10:13am

Peregrinus wrote: »

They may look further into it, since there are some fairly high-profile cases recently of people falsely nominating others, to avoid incurring fines/penalty points/suspensions. And if you nominate somebody who is conveniently beyond the reach of the law, the possibility that you might be doing this could occur to them.

It's a serious matter. Note that if the guards do look into it, and they find evidence that, yeah, you lied about this, your concern is not that they will pursue you for the speeding offence. They will charge you with perjury and/or perverting the course of justice and, if convicted, you will very likely go to gaol.

But it's not enough that they suspect that you lied; they need to be able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt. They might do this, for example, by finding other evidence - e.g. from traffic cameras on the day, in which you are recognisable as the driver. Or they might find evidence that the person you nominated was not in Ireland at the time. There's an Australian judge (well, ex-judge now, obviously) who spent two years in prison because the foreign visitor he nominated turned out to have been three years' dead at the time.)

There would also be the issue of insurance post Clancy amendment? Was the foreign national insured to drive the car? What steps did the owner take to verify this?

rock22 · 01-03-2019 10:25am

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

This is purely a hypothetical situation.

Some one visiting from abroad, lets say the continental EU loans a car from an Irish resident car owner and is captured speeding by Gosafe/Garda van.

The registered owner receives a notice and completes the nomination with the visitors details.

Is this the end of the matter for the registered owner? Would the Gardaí simply accept the nomination or would they comeback seeking proof that Mr X was driving at the material time?

Borrow, possibly?

Credit Checker Moose · 01-03-2019 1:10pm

Marcusm wrote: »

There would also be the issue of insurance post Clancy amendment? Was the foreign national insured to drive the car? What steps did the owner take to verify this?

The owner has an Open Drive policy.

GM228 · 01-03-2019 2:22pm

Marcusm wrote: »

There would also be the issue of insurance post Clancy amendment? Was the foreign national insured to drive the car? What steps did the owner take to verify this?

The so called Clancy amendment only applies to driving licences.

bobbysands81 · 09-03-2019 10:43am

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

This is purely a hypothetical situation.

Some one visiting from abroad, lets say the continental EU loans a car from an Irish resident car owner and is captured speeding by Gosafe/Garda van.

The registered owner receives a notice and completes the nomination with the visitors details.

Is this the end of the matter for the registered owner? Would the Gardaí simply accept the nomination or would they comeback seeking proof that Mr X was driving at the material time?

In a very similar fictional situation to the one outlined, no proof was requested whatsoever, the form was sent in and that was that.