First time landlord in Dublin City

Claw Hammer · 21-05-2019 6:02pm

beauf wrote: »

Maybe but not a months rent. Thats very expensive and not have it managed.

Most charge 6% +VAT of the annual rent which works out at about a months rent.

beauf · 21-05-2019 6:06pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Most charge 6% +VAT of the annual rent which works out at about a months rent.

The one's I'm familiar with don't.

Average rent is €1600 in Dublin for reference. People pay that and have poor quality of service as described earlier. That's nuts.

21-05-2019 6:17pm

Manion wrote: »

I'm in a position of becoming an "accidental landlord" and I'm somewhat lost as to where to start. The property is my old family home and I do not wish to sell it at this point in time. Various people have been giving me arm chair advise such as:
Ask for 2 months rent as a deposit and rent in advance.

Put into the lease a 4% rent increase year on year.

Put clear break clauses in the lease.

Ask for references which can be personally validated

Don't use a letting agent

Put a bed in the down stairs front room and turn it into a 4 bed rental.

Don't put money into the property until it's rented so that it can be tax deductible.

Channel rental income into a Pension fund to avoid income tax (seems legitimate)

What advise would you folks offer to a first time landlord?

I use a letting agent, have had few issues and it saves an enormous amount of headaches. My one does an annual property inspection by agreement with tenants. I am extremely lucky in that I have the same excellent tenants (from Baltic region) for over ten years now, they have never been a day late. I supplied pots with compost on the patio and they like to plant them out with flowers. They even touch up paint from time to time. I left a little pot with brush under the stairs. They are quite fussy, but that’s a good thing as they are very house proud. I also allowed pets and this factor attracted my particular tenants in the first place. A lot of continental family types are used to keeping pets (well) in their apartments and houses and value landlords who provide for this. An energetic and responsive letting agent will do all the hard work and the tenants are very happy with them too.

Best of luck!

The_Conductor · 21-05-2019 6:23pm

beauf wrote: »

Where did you get that from?

Here's one referencing Hooke and McDonald:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/red-tape-forces-property-agent-to-drop-small-time-landlords-1.3107610

I'll try find others referencing other estate agency chains- if you really want (or you could try Google)?

Bigus · 21-05-2019 6:51pm

Maybe tell the letting agent that you are only interested in a corporate let , and see if this is possible, with this property as it stands, and also if a corporate let avoids the normal pitfalls of letting to individuals.

ImARebel · 22-05-2019 7:35am

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not sure why people are suggesting letting agents as some great thing. Used them a few times and they added nothing but hassle.
Not letting us know the tenant had an issue. Getting me to organise repairmen. Not contacting the tenants about non payment of rent or informing us.

For this effort they like to claim a months rent. Now there is no additional working for them to rent a place €500 or €5000. Weird economic theory.

I found it to be invaluable that's why I suggested it. Personal experience.

For little under half a month's rent we've got top notch tenants as a result.

Each to their own I was just giving the benefit of our experience and outlined why I'd recommend using one.

beauf · 22-05-2019 7:44am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Here's one referencing Hooke and McDonald:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/red-tape-forces-property-agent-to-drop-small-time-landlords-1.3107610

I'll try find others referencing other estate agency chains- if you really want (or you could try Google)?

That's from 2 years ago. First I've heard about it.

Ray Palmer · 22-05-2019 8:56am

beauf wrote: »

That's just a bad an expensive agent.

You seemed to have missed where I said I tried more than one agent. That was the standard rate they were charging haven't used one in 10 years. Everyone I know dumped them over similar experiences over multiple of agents.
My favourite was they tried to double charge me for a plumber. They called out an emergency plumber for a leaking tap. The bill was something like €300. When I question it I was told that what the plumber charges for emergency call outs. Rang the plumber and asked his rate at it was half. Contacted the agent and they then said it included admin charges on their side. When I explained that I had already paid them admin charges by paying them the agents said everything the did was charged on top.
Contacted the manager who then claimed it was all a big misunderstanding and he correct the bill. Couldn't explain why it was an emergency though. A few months later I get a call about an electrician being called down for a tripped switch. Again tried to double charge me. It wasn't a mistake it was their practice.

beauf · 22-05-2019 10:01am

There's a lot of bad agents. No argument from me. I'm just saying a good agent doesn't do any of that.

Ray Palmer · 22-05-2019 12:43pm

beauf wrote: »

There's a lot of bad agents. No argument from me. I'm just saying a good agent doesn't do any of that.

What I am telling you from experience is from over 6 agents on top of that another 10 agents reports from people I know personally. That is without experiencing one good agent. It appears to me to be very hard to find a good one rather than being unlucky by getting a bad one.

beauf · 22-05-2019 2:19pm

I can't disagree with you about you your experience. I'm just saying my experience with good agents is entirely different.

One agent who I thought was terrible, another friend thinks is great. But then they haven't had experienced a bad tenant with that agent yet.

antoinolachtnai · 22-05-2019 2:39pm

beauf wrote: »

I can't disagree with you about you your experience. I'm just saying my experience with good agents is entirely different.

One agent who I thought was terrible, another friend thinks is great. But then they haven't had experienced a bad tenant with that agent yet.

I most likely wouldn’t use an agent myself but then I have a fair bit of knowledge and experience. The help of an agent (preferably a good one but even a mediocre one) would be of benefit to the OP where it might not be to other people.

Manion · 27-10-2019 1:53pm

Hi

Just a small update for those who maybe interested. We opted to modernise the property and let it out. I've learnt a lot over the last 6 months from the experience about expectations and what I really wanted to achieve. For every piece of advice I received I also received the opposite and equally emphatic advice.

We went down the letting agent route but quickly dismissed the first agent as they where being less than honest with us on a number of points and there seemed to be a very strong miss match of expectations. If I'm honest we where momentarily star struck by the rent figure quoted by the letting agent and didn't really question enough how they planned to hit that number.

We were on the point of packing it in and leaving the property vacant until post Brexit when we came across a more reputable letting agent. He spoke a lot of sense and also very clearly outlined the statuary obligation of a landlord which he would not fudge. This was actually very encouraging as generally if someone is willing to apply sharp practices they don't draw a line at their clients.

We opted for a below max market price listing as it became obvious the local market price for a similar property was being inflated by stacking and packing tenants into properties. We quickly got tenants in who on paper seem like a great fit. We'll see how the first 6 months go. So fingers crossed.

riclad · 27-10-2019 5:39pm

Look on revenue.ie landlord expense,s .You are taxed on your annual salary plus rental income minus expense,s claimed as a landlord.
you, cannot simply take out a large pension to avoid paying any tax on the rental income .
You are better off leaving the front room as it is ,just look for a good tenant .
Who has a good job and can afford to pay the rent.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/index.aspx

you can claim the accountants fee as an expense against rental income.
300 euro for 1 years tax return.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax/how_your_tax_is_calculated.html

for tax year 2020 , you can claim 100 per cent of mortgage interest as an expense against rental income .
You need send in a tax return before october 30th every year,
you can fill in a paper form and send it in by registered post to the tax office or use the online tax return service on www.revenue.ie ,use form 12 .
i find firefox is the best browser to use for this ,
chrome did not work properly when i tried it , when i clicked the form ,it said error , lost connection to server .
I used firefox and it worked fine.
Make a note of any reference no you get and keep the pdf file it shows you after the form is complete .
You need to keep all reciepts and documents relating to the tenancy for 5-6 years , in case the revenue ask you for more info re expense,s claimed in previous years .

www.ros.ie is the online tax return portal,

register an account there anytime before you wish to make a tax return online.

Mic 1972 · 29-10-2019 7:04pm

what sort of services does a letting agency provide?

i wonder this because there are things that i would rather do myself
- calling repairman, i have my own for everything and i would never call anybody else
- finding the right tenant, i would do this by myself rather than relying on an agency
- tax return, you can do online or use an accountant

what else do they provide?

riclad · 29-10-2019 11:18pm

They find a tenant ,they go through all the doc,s , id, proof of employment, provide you with document,s ,like a lease, tenancy agreement etc

get a deposit,
they deal with tenant,s ,eg item x need,s a repair.
You might say i need a tenant, maybe a couple ,2 working people,
who are in full time employment by a company.
will you take hap client,s , tenants on welfare.
for a house ,usually a single mother with 2 kids.

they will give you advice ,is it a good idea?
how much deposit to ask for, 6 weeks, plus ?
You can claim the cost of an agent against rental income as an expense.
so say your on holiday,s the oven, or the fridge breaks, down.
you are a 100 miles, away , are you going to come back to fix it.
In the middle of your holiday ?
you can give them a no for plumbers, locksmith, etc in case of emergency.
Also theres companys that mainly do home repairs .

i find the paper form , form 12, much easier to fill in,
the online form 12 ,use,s vague language , which is not as simple or
easy to understand as the paper version i printed off .
You can fill the online tax return,
then go back and add to it, or change it,
anytime, at least until a certain date.
the online form has no note,s section.Online form has 1 line , capital expense,s , put a no in the box, eg 1200
The paper form ,has notes,
eg i put in in note,s section , i,m claiming x amount capital expenses, for
fridge bought in 2016,
oven bought in 2012.
of course you need to find a good agent.
Every tenant has to have a rent book,this is a legal requirement.
this has the name of the landlord or the agent and a phone no.
buy one in easons book shop.

Manion · 30-10-2019 12:56am

I don't seem to be able to register for ROS.ie given I'm already a registered for Paye.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

what sort of services does a letting agency provide?

i wonder this because there are things that i would rather do myself
- calling repairman, i have my own for everything and i would never call anybody else
- finding the right tenant, i would do this by myself rather than relying on an agency
- tax return, you can do online or use an accountant

what else do they provide?

They may recommend an accountant but they wont complete your tax returns. The value of a letting agent really depends on you and what you want to achieve. In the end there was apparently 150 approx applicants for our property to whittle through, I cannot imagine how long that would have taken us.

riclad · 30-10-2019 4:05pm

An agent interviews tenant,s ,maybe shows them the house,
you can claim the cost of an accountant and an agent as an expense against tax on rental income,
so in a sense an agent costs you zero,
as it reduces your tax bill,
Last time i checked an agent charges, about the cost of 1 months rent.
But that was years ago.
An agent will have to spend time talking to tenant,s ,
checking have they id, payslips, proof of employment,
they work for company x, salary is x amount.
can they afford to pay the rent ,plus the deposit.
and say there,s problem, the tenant can call them, eg fridge stops working, etc
An agents job is to manage the property, vet tenant,s find a good tenant
and interview prospective tenants .

Edgware · 30-10-2019 5:49pm

Using a downstairs front room as a bedroom.? If you have gas heating better check that with Bord Gais

Manion · 01-11-2019 9:09pm

If I understand correctly letting fees maybe tax deductible at the marginal rate of tax. I'm unsure how it would Work out free...

Claw Hammer · 04-11-2019 12:38pm

Manion wrote: »

If I understand correctly letting fees maybe tax deductible at the marginal rate of tax. I'm unsure how it would Work out free...

It is not free. Some people are so obsessed with not paying tax that they waste money just to get a tax deduction.

Mic 1972 · 04-11-2019 1:55pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is not free. Some people are so obsessed with not paying tax that they waste money just to get a tax deduction.

ehehehe, true

riclad · 04-11-2019 2:21pm

Say a landlord a paid 4k tax in 2018.
if he spends 1200 euro on a letting agent,in 2019
it means the amount of income that,s liable for tax is reduced by 1200 .Most landlords pay 40 per cent tax or more on rental income .

You have to go onto the website,
i think its ros.ie and make an account.
make an account, wait a few days, then you can make an online tax return.
Its a 2 Step process .
make account ,

Wait, log out of account.
maybe 2 days later login to your account,
make a tax return.
i think each account ,has a user id no.
it has a user name, and password.
your user name might be your email adress.
i only did it once .

because your are on paye does not stop you making an account ,
or using ros.ie

My friend is on paye , full time office employee for a company, she uses ros .ie to make online tax returns
as a landlord .

https://www.ros.ie/oidc/login/noCertsFound?lang=en&client_id=rosint_rp

QUOTE ;

Individuals registered for PAYE or LPT only should usemyAccount

Claw Hammer · 04-11-2019 4:40pm

riclad wrote: »

Say a landlord a paid 4k tax in 2018.
if he spends 1200 euro on a letting agent,in 2019
it means the amount of income that,s liable for tax is reduced by 1200 .Most landlords pay 40 per cent tax or more on rental income .

So you pay out €1200 to save €480 on tax leaving it costing you €720? Not exactly free is it, even by your calculations?

riclad · 04-11-2019 6:28pm

No ,its not free , i agree, re fee for agent .
if you buy a new fridge , for 400 euros,
you claim 50 euro per year ,over 8 years as a capital allowance.
So you get 400euro to claim as an expense against rental income .

Claw Hammer · 05-11-2019 1:11pm

riclad wrote: »

No ,its not free , i agree, re fee for agent .
if you buy a new fridge , for 400 euros,
you claim 50 euro per year ,over 8 years as a capital allowance.
So you get 400euro to claim as an expense against rental income .

An agent is not a fridge.

The_Conductor · 05-11-2019 1:25pm

riclad wrote: »

No ,its not free , i agree, re fee for agent .
if you buy a new fridge , for 400 euros,
you claim 50 euro per year ,over 8 years as a capital allowance.
So you get 400euro to claim as an expense against rental income .

A fridge is expenditure on fixture and fittings- and is depreciated at the rate of 12.5% over 8 years. I.e. you are allowed 12.5% as a cost against rental income (not against tax) over 8 years.
A letting agent is a running cost- and is wholly deductible against rental income in the year in which the services are procured.
I.e. the letting agent is providing a service with a cost associated with it towards letting the property- your fridge is a white good which you depreciate as scheduled.

My head hurts trying to figure why you're using two different types of costs in the explanation.

Claw Hammer · 05-11-2019 1:47pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

My head hurts trying to figure why you're using two different types of costs in the explanation.

He is trying to distract attention from the fact a letting agent's fee was free because it is tax deductible

Manion · 05-11-2019 11:23pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

A fridge is expenditure on fixture and fittings- and is depreciated at the rate of 12.5% over 8 years. I.e. you are allowed 12.5% as a cost against rental income (not against tax) over 8 years.
A letting agent is a running cost- and is wholly deductible against rental income in the year in which the services are procured.
I.e. the letting agent is providing a service with a cost associated with it towards letting the property- your fridge is a white good which you depreciate as scheduled.

My head hurts trying to figure why you're using two different types of costs in the explanation.

So a letting agency fees are tax deductible at the marginal rate of tax.

circular flexing · 05-11-2019 11:37pm

Manion wrote: »

So a letting agency fees are tax deductible at the marginal rate of tax.

Revenue have a guide about what is deductible

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/what-expenses-are-allowed.aspx

Looks like only the initial agency fees are deductible.

First time landlord in Dublin City

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