Upgrading a first gen i7 gaming machine

djan · 24-02-2020 4:29pm #1

Hi everyone,

Now that the house refurbishments are coming to a close, I will have the office/game room going operational again

I have had a i7 920 (1st gen i7) based system for years now, gradually upgrading the graphics cards, RAM and SSD/HDD as I went along.

I have just bought a 27icn 75hz Freesync monitor (great deal btw: https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/monitors/home/L27i-28-A18270FL0-27-FHD-Monitor-HDMI/p/65E0KAC1UK and would like a graphics card to match as the current GTX 960 is not really up to the task for gaming.

The current set up is:

Xeon X5675 6C/12T @3.6Ghz
Asus Rampage III Extreme
GTX 960 2gb
12GB RAM 1700Mhz in Triple channel
480GB SSD
2x 500gb HDD
900W Bronze Rated Supply

While I understand the system is quite ancient in tech years, I have quite enjoyed upgrading it over the years and given the recent addition of the Xeon processor, it handles even new games surprisingly well. Unfortunately as previously said the graphics card is not up to the task so am looking for recommendations to make use of freesync and preferably max out games in Full HD around 75 FPS. With a budget of 250euro without going overkill on the low res and potential CPU bottleneck.

AlmightyCushion · 24-02-2020 4:37pm

What sort of budget do you have? A GTX 1660 would be less than £200 and should be a solid upgrade.

Edit: Also, your monitor link is broken there is a bracket at the end of the link that shouldn't be there.

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/monitors/home/L27i-28-A18270FL0-27-FHD-Monitor-HDMI/p/65E0KAC1UK

djan · 24-02-2020 5:08pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

What sort of budget do you have? A GTX 1660 would be less than £200 and should be a solid upgrade.

Edit: Also, your monitor link is broken there is a bracket at the end of the link that shouldn't be there.

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/monitors/home/L27i-28-A18270FL0-27-FHD-Monitor-HDMI/p/65E0KAC1UK

Thanks for the heads up. That's something that came up on my research, seems a good mix of performance and power efficiency.

Do you know if it would be compatible with Freesync as AFAIK it is predominantly a AMD feature?

AlmightyCushion · 24-02-2020 5:16pm

Ah, I completely missed the FreeSync part of your post. nVidia cards will work with FreeSync monitors but only over displayport which your monitor doesn't have. So FreeSync won't work with it using an nVidia card.

You could get an AMD 580 or 590 card. Price wise and performance wise it should be similar to the 1660. Otherwise an RX5700 would be more expensive but also has much better performance.

gibgodsman · 24-02-2020 5:28pm

Really you would need a new motherboard, CPU, GPU and RAM
The socket of your current motherboard is dead since 2012 and the RAM is woeful speed and DDR3

wotzgoingon · 24-02-2020 7:04pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

Really you would need a new motherboard, CPU, GPU and RAM
The socket of your current motherboard is dead since 2012 and the RAM is woeful speed and DDR3

He does not. I was using one of them Xeons for years. Overclock it to 4.2-4.4GHz and it will be great. The only thing it lacks is support for AVX but there is only one or two games that require that instruction set.

Also just get a new or second hand Rx 580 non reference model but only if you can get it cheap. Hardware unboxed did a video to show how much the card has improved over the past while (they only posted the video in the past few days) and even beats out the 1060 which was the cards competitor when it was released.

Homelander · 24-02-2020 8:49pm

Depends on the game being played. Some games will be fine, others will have some drops/bottleneck due to the weak IPC, a few won't run at all due to the lack of AVX, this will likely to start becoming more common too.

While it's no big deal to get another while out of it with a cheap card like GTX1650 Super or GTX1660, I would agree it does need replacing at this stage really and definitely no point talking about cards like 5700.

At this point you could get a Ryzen 2600, B450M and 16GB DDR4 for about €250 or so, it makes sense really. You would still get a fair few cent for the X5675, board and 12 gb ram.

djan · 24-02-2020 9:52pm

Thanks for the feedback guys. Judging from my benchmarks on YouTube with better graphics cards and my own video encoding etc, there is still decent amount of power in the OCed Xeon which puts it on par with the higher i5 or lower i7s of few years ago.

I found a 590 8gb non reference for about 180 brand new, what ye think?

I know that eventually a platform upgrade is imminent, thankfully the Rampage III Extreme is quite sought after as last year I saw it going for 200eur+ on ebay so could help towards a future upgrade.

What is this AVX you speak of? A quick Google seems to indicate it's not a hugely used protocol for processors in today's games. Would it result in poorer gaming performance or not running it outright?

All in all, its crazy how capable the X58 platform is to be still giving decent performance nearly 10 years on!

wotzgoingon · 24-02-2020 10:02pm

djan wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback guys. Judging from my benchmarks on YouTube with better graphics cards and my own video encoding etc, there is still decent amount of power in the OCed Xeon which puts it on par with the higher i5 or lower i7s of few years ago.

I found a 590 8gb non reference for about 180 brand new, what ye think?

I know that eventually a platform upgrade is imminent, thankfully the Rampage III Extreme is quite sought after as last year I saw it going for 200eur+ on ebay so could help towards a future upgrade.

What is this AVX you speak of? A quick Google seems to indicate it's not a hugely used protocol for processors in today's games. Would it result in poorer gaming performance or not running it outright?

All in all, its crazy how capable the X58 platform is to be still giving decent performance nearly 10 years on!

The game still runs but with lower performance on a AVX game. I only upgraded to a Ryzen system a few months ago after owning a X58 system for a month or two away from 10 years. It is a Assasins Creed game that uses AVX I forget which one. There is AVX, AVX2 and AVX512. My Ryzen system supports the first two but not the last 512 but you do not need to support that one EYPC and maybe Threadripper support it.

As you said X58 is still a great system and plays all game with good performance.

edit: There is actually more than one game using AVX. The game sees if CPU supports it and then utilizes it if the support is there. But still runs with different instructions sets if support is not there.

K.O.Kiki · 25-02-2020 9:03am

Replace the PSU

It's likely well past its warranty and you can get great Gold rated units cheaply now.

djan · 25-02-2020 10:49am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Replace the PSU

It's likely well past its warranty and you can get great Gold rated units cheaply now.

PSU itself is only about 5 years old but given the prices I will look into a new one.

What do ye think about the RX 590 8GB? Seems to beat newer 5500 XT while being cheaper. The temps seem to be high but this 3 slot version should help with that?

https://www.cclonline.com/product/264752/RX-590P8DFD6/Graphics-Cards/XFX-Radeon-RX-590-Fatboy-8GB-Graphics-Card-PCI-Express-3-0-DisplayPort/HDMI/Dual-Link-DVI-D/VGA5389/

K.O.Kiki · 25-02-2020 1:12pm

Very inefficient.

Spend the extra on a GTX 1660 rather than on electricity.

djan · 25-02-2020 3:54pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Very inefficient.

Spend the extra on a GTX 1660 rather than on electricity.

Card has to be AMD as my monitor doesn't have a DisplayPort, and given that performance won't be amazing, Freesync is a must.

K.O.Kiki · 25-02-2020 10:18pm

djan wrote: »

Card has to be AMD as my monitor doesn't have a DisplayPort, and given that performance won't be amazing, Freesync is a must.

With the 1660 you'll be able to lock to your monitor's refresh rate.

wotzgoingon · 25-02-2020 10:19pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

With the 1660 you'll be able to lock to your monitor's refresh rate.

Freesync is still better than doing that though.

purifol0 · 25-02-2020 10:36pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

Really you would need a new motherboard, CPU, GPU and RAM
The socket of your current motherboard is dead since 2012 and the RAM is woeful speed and DDR3

His RAM has faster write speed than 1st, 2nd and most of 3rd gen Ryzen FYI.

djan · 25-02-2020 11:54pm

purifol0 wrote: »

His RAM has faster write speed than 1st, 2nd and most of 3rd gen Ryzen FYI.

99% of the time, ram speed has little to do with performance. As long as it's not being used to supplement on board graphics the fps gains are minimal. Having done non gpu benchmarks on the system the performance is surprisingly good for such an old set up.

Regarding the gfx ard, think I'll hold out for a good deal on either a 580/590 or wait and see if the 5500 line improves performance with newer updates and go for that. Vega 56 could potentially be in budget too but haven't seen much about it really...

wotzgoingon · 26-02-2020 12:04am

djan wrote: »

99% of the time, ram speed has little to do with performance. As long as it's not being used to supplement on board graphics the fps gains are minimal. Having done non gpu benchmarks on the system the performance is surprisingly good for such an old set up.

Regarding the gfx ard, think I'll hold out for a good deal on either a 580/590 or wait and see if the 5500 line improves performance with newer updates and go for that. Vega 56 could potentially be in budget too but haven't seen much about it really...

I ran a Vega 56 with my X5660 and then a 5700 XT just before I upgraded to a 3700X. I was gaming at 4k with my Vega56 and X5660 but the 5700 XT was better for 4k once I upgraded.

I would look for used cards if I was you as they would be cheaper since you have a old system and start putting money aside for a whole system upgrade further down the line.

purifol0 · 26-02-2020 12:42am

djan wrote: »

99% of the time, ram speed has little to do with performance.

This not true at all for high refresh rate gaming.
Youll get a 30% increase in framerates in most titles going from DDR4 2133 to 3600 once you are not limited by your GPU and CPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj5sJARtEV0

If you are only targeting 75hz then you dont have to worry much though.

djan · 26-02-2020 11:17am

purifol0 wrote: »

This not true at all for high refresh rate gaming.
Youll get a 30% increase in framerates in most titles going from DDR4 2133 to 3600 once you are not limited by your GPU and CPU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj5sJARtEV0

If you are only targeting 75hz then you dont have to worry much though.

My comment was based on the DDR3 RAM that is in my system where it really doesn't make much difference at all. See here: https://youtu.be/i1qYT27nJcc?t=239

I see that with DDR4 the difference is more substantial but as you said only in very high end systems.

djan · 26-02-2020 2:51pm

Just to update, I sepnt the first half of the day looking at upgrading the platform to an AMD Ryzen system, specifically the 5 2600/X but it turns out that my Xeon X5675 shows pretty much the same performance in both games and processing.

Moving up to a 3600 doesn't seem to make sense ATM so I think I'll just pop in a new gfx card like a AMD Vega, improve air flow and game on!

Anyone looking for a budget "bang for buck" machine, you cant go wrong with the Xeon, mobo and 12GB ram which can be gotten for under 150 all in!

K.O.Kiki · 26-02-2020 5:01pm

Higher power draw, lower 1% lows (microstutters)

I don't know where you saw comparisons but I can guarantee you that they paint a complete picture.

Also don't buy Vega.
RTX or Rx 5700.

Homelander · 26-02-2020 6:07pm

djan wrote: »

Anyone looking for a budget "bang for buck" machine, you cant go wrong with the Xeon, mobo and 12GB ram which can be gotten for under 150 all in!

In fairness while it's admirable that it's held up so long, you can get a 2600, a320m + 8gb 3200mhz for about €200, I think anyone would be insane to spend 150+ on x58...

Again while it's held up OK it's ancient, no warranty, totally obsolete in terms of feature set, weaker IPC, zero upgrade options, etc.

With Ryzen so insanely cheap now very few 2nd hand options make any real sense, old 4th gen 2nd hand i7s sell for more than a new 2600 for example.

djan · 26-02-2020 6:36pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Higher power draw, lower 1% lows (microstutters)

I don't know where you saw comparisons but I can guarantee you that they paint a complete picture.

Also don't buy Vega.
RTX or Rx 5700.

On phone at the moment but here is an example of just min/max FPS. Personally I haven't experienced microstutter but from a few comparisons I checked earlier the 1% lows were in line with the max 10% less FPS.

https://youtu.be/7IK0Yer4XTc

Of course power consumption is through the roof in comparison to the Ryzen. At same GHz its about 60W more. Cooling is sufficient enough to cope, sure I'll turn down the radiator beside it as it

Can I ask why not the Vega? The 56 especially seems great value?

Homelander wrote: »

In fairness while it's admirable that it's held up so long, you can get a 2600, a320m + 8gb 3200mhz for about €200, I think anyone would be insane to spend 150+ on x58...

Again while it's held up OK it's ancient, no warranty, totally obsolete in terms of feature set, weaker IPC, zero upgrade options, etc.

With Ryzen so insanely cheap now very few 2nd hand options make any real sense, old 4th gen 2nd hand i7s sell for more than a new 2600 for example.

The x58 build actually comes in as less than 100 but at a cost of power consumption and lack of newer features.

Wow didn't know the ryzen build could be gotten that cheap. Amazing value then as you get additional features on newer mobos etc. Looks like AMD is back to being the budget King in that case! Going new this would be a no brainer.

AlmightyCushion · 26-02-2020 9:06pm

Homelander wrote: »

With Ryzen so insanely cheap now very few 2nd hand options make any real sense, old 4th gen 2nd hand i7s sell for more than a new 2600 for example.

This is the situation I'm in. I have a 4670K and would love to drop in an i7 to tide me over for a while instead of doing a full build. 2nd hand prices are crazy though, completely not worth it.

K.O.Kiki · 26-02-2020 10:16pm

djan wrote: »

On phone at the moment but here is an example of just min/max FPS. Personally I haven't experienced microstutter but from a few comparisons I checked earlier the 1% lows were in line with the max 10% less FPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IK0Yer4XTc

Of course power consumption is through the roof in comparison to the Ryzen. At same GHz its about 60W more. Cooling is sufficient enough to cope, sure I'll turn down the radiator beside it as it

Can I ask why not the Vega? The 56 especially seems great value

Instead of spending 300 on a Vega 56 you can get a GTX 1660 Super (same performance, cheaper, less power draw) or RX 5600 XT / RTX 2060 KO (better performance).

For Ryzen 3600 you can add another 10fps to those results - its IPC is nearly on par with Intel 9th gen.

djan · 27-02-2020 11:05am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Instead of spending 300 on a Vega 56 you can get a GTX 1660 Super (same performance, cheaper, less power draw) or RX 5600 XT / RTX 2060 KO (better performance).

For Ryzen 3600 you can add another 10fps to those results - its IPC is nearly on par with Intel 9th gen.

Unfortunately given that my monitor only has HDMI, to have Freesync, an AMD card is the only option.

While I did have the option to get a Vega 64 under 250 in the end I decided to go with a RX 580 Nitro+ 8GB. Its more than 2x the performance of my GTX960 2GB and for 130eur and a 12 month warranty is enough to truck along on my 1080p monitor.

z0oT · 27-02-2020 11:58am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Very inefficient.

Spend the extra on a GTX 1660 rather than on electricity.

If you compare the RX 590 & GTX 1660, some rough numbers tells me it would take 1860 hours of gaming to re-coup the extra cost of the 1660 over 590 in electricity cost savings.

As inefficient as the 590 is, if you're somebody like me who games about 20 hours per week, that's almost two years which is quite a lot.

Not sure that argument holds water unless you want to hold on to it for a long time.

2ndcoming · 27-02-2020 12:14pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This is the situation I'm in. I have a 4670K and would love to drop in an i7 to tide me over for a while instead of doing a full build. 2nd hand prices are crazy though, completely not worth it.

I'm in the same boat with an i5-7600k. People want more for a second hand 7700k than it costs for a new R5-3600, B450 board and 3200mhz RAM.

Homelander · 27-02-2020 12:28pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This is the situation I'm in. I have a 4670K and would love to drop in an i7 to tide me over for a while instead of doing a full build. 2nd hand prices are crazy though, completely not worth it.

CEX can sometimes be OK for some things, i7-4770 is €85 here which is pretty OK if it staves off a full upgrade for a year or two.

https://ie.webuy.com/product-detail/?id=scpuinti74770&categoryName=processors-intel&superCatName=computing&title=intel-core-i7-4770-%283.4ghz%29-lga1150

K.O.Kiki · 27-02-2020 12:46pm

z0oT wrote: »

If you compare the RX 590 & GTX 1660, some rough numbers tells me it would take 1860 hours of gaming to re-coup the extra cost of the 1660 over 590 in electricity cost savings.

As inefficient as the 590 is, if you're somebody like me who games about 20 hours per week, that's almost two years which is quite a lot.

Not sure that argument holds water unless you want to hold on to it for a long time.

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

Even at 2hrs/day I'm seeing a return within a year.

Upgrading a first gen i7 gaming machine

Comments