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TUS Programme

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    #122
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I have done a bit of research this morning and it looks like if you turn down a position you will be cut on the dole. Despite the TUS people saying you are under no obligation to take offered jobs. So basically it's lies when they tell you don't have to take a job.

    So basically i left a job where the boss herself said it was a mismatch and i will most likely be cut. I was told if you are not getting the training you were told you would you could leave the placement and they will find something more suitable. It really is a system based on lies. I was told i could leave the placement and they would get me another. Now they say if they can't get me a new placement in two or three weeks i will be sent back to the labour and my money will most likely be cut. When the facts are i done everything they said and only took their advice. This really is a badly thought out idea. I have no problem working somewhere that i am learning about improving my skills and i am looking for work yet i will be cut for listening to their advice.

    Then they make it out like they will do everything they can. When the fact is listening to their guidance is what has you in this situation. I was told that me benfitting was their main aim and it was understandable i left. Then the next time i spoke to them they said the dole will look at it that i left a placement and it looks like i don't want to work.

    I didn't contact the INOU yet because i was busy looking for jobs and i don't think they can really help. Also they might get me a new placement in the next week or two. But i see no reason why i should be cut. I provided proof i am looking for work. I also stated i was willing to take up another placement. Why can't they let me back on the dole even if it takes 3 months to find me somewhere i would be willing to take the placement. At the end of the day they found me an unsuitable placement. I was told i could leave and the boss in the placement agreed it didn't suit. Now if they fail to get me a placement in the next few weeks i will be cut even though i just followed their advise. I think the system if run properly could be good but this is not really a way to treat people who are trying to seek employment.


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    #123
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    dubscribe wrote: »
    Nuts102, this is dreadful news to read, poor you. What an appalling way you have been treated. I know, essentially you sound like a timid and shy person but I'm sorry to say that this is one occasion where you will have to stand up for yourself and your rights.

    Certainly the one thing I have learned from your experience is that if they say I don't have to accept an unsuitable job, I want it in writing. It would appear their word is unreliable. They tell you one thing and then do something else.

    At this stage I would suggest you ask to meet with the overall supervisor of the Tus scheme in your area and ask him/her for an explanation as to why they want to reduce your dole money because they did not deliver on their word, ie a suitable placement. This is not your fault and you should not be penalised for it. These schemes always have a "right of appeal" policy/system, I suggest you engage with it now rather than wait until your dole is cut and then have to fight for it to be reinstated.

    I also suggest you contact www.inou.ie - the National Organisation of the Unemployed. Tell them what's happening with you. They will definitely have good suggestions to offer you.

    Hang in there. You have support with us.

    TAKEN from INOU website:
    Refusing an offer of Training
    If you refuse an offer of training without just cause or good reason the Department of Social Protection may apply a penalty rate to your Jobseeker's Benefit/Jobseeker's Allowance payment. If this happens you may ask for a review of this decision. Please contact the INOU on (01) 856 0088 for information.

    Do you know if INOU would contact the TUS office about my case or would they just reply to me.


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    #124
    JackieBurke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭JackieBurke


    From what I have read of the scheme, TUS is separate from the department of social protection. All TUS do is tell the department about non compliant/under compliant people and it is a deciding officer in the department that actually causes money to be cut.

    I would certainly press such a cut all the way to the social welfare appeals office


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    #125
    danjo-xx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭danjo-xx


    The Tús initiative is managed by local development companies and Údarás na Gaeltachta for the Department of Social Protection, which has overall responsibility for the scheme.

    @Nutts, After all the misinformation/half truth's/threats etc if It were me I think I would document everything that was said, and who said it and keep dates and even times.

    I would call into Citizens Information Centre and discuss it with them, and ask them what is the best way to deal with this now, e.g. should you keep the dole office informed now on a regular basis, as they are the one's who will eventually decide if your going to be victimised or not by cutting your payment.


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    #126
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Didn't hear anything from TUS all last week so things not looking good seems they can't find me a job yet. Can anyone confirm that INOU do not contact TUS. I am planning on contacting INOU but don't want it getting back to TUS.


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    #127
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Hi, posted this in the after hours thread on the same topic.
    Then realised here would be better suited.
    Bit panicky for some info.

    Whats the deal with people doing 20 hours college a week?
    Do they still cut your welfare if you say you dont want to accept a placement?

    It would handicap me from progressing into a job! my course provides work placement hopefully at the end, in one of the fastest growing industries.
    I really am not a fan of slave labour(especially while attending a full time course and studying all week, but I may be homeless if my welfare is cut right now.

    Advice appreciated.


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    #128
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    I got this TUS letter today as well.

    Article 4: Prohibition on Slavery and Forced Labour

    Not all forced labour will be considered to fall within Article 4, and paragraph (3) of the Article sets out a number of matters which will NOT be considered ‘forced or compulsory labour’. So military service, or community service as part of a sentence lawfully imposed by the Court will not be considered to fall within Article 4. Attempts have been made to argue that a requirement to do voluntary work as part of your professional training, a requirement to do work based training as a condition of entitlement to unemployment benefits, or a requirement to do jury service breached Article 4. The European Court of Human Rights rejected all such arguments.

    So it looks like the European Court of Human Rights decided that this is not forced labour.

    Were all screwed in this case.

    Looks like i'll pick computer repair for computers that need to be sent to africa.

    Now we all know why the government are saying there are less people on the live register...it's because they are all thrown onto this farce of a TUS programme of which the social welfare are finished with you.


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    #129
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    zenno wrote: »
    I got this TUS letter today as well.

    Article 4: Prohibition on Slavery and Forced Labour

    Not all forced labour will be considered to fall within Article 4, and paragraph (3) of the Article sets out a number of matters which will NOT be considered ‘forced or compulsory labour’. So military service, or community service as part of a sentence lawfully imposed by the Court will not be considered to fall within Article 4. Attempts have been made to argue that a requirement to do voluntary work as part of your professional training, a requirement to do work based training as a condition of entitlement to unemployment benefits, or a requirement to do jury service breached Article 4. The European Court of Human Rights rejected all such arguments.

    So it looks like the European Court of Human Rights decided that this is not forced labour.

    Were all screwed in this case.

    Looks like i'll pick computer repair for computers that need to be sent to africa.

    Now we all know why the government are saying there are less people on the live register...it's because they are all thrown onto this farce of a TUS programme of which the social welfare are finished with you.

    Sounds like you're getting a little too worked up over it....think about it, it's just 19hrs a week...what else would you be doing in that time that's so important unless you have a job of some sort and are claiming (that could upset a few) ....you can still look for proper work and and if successful leave the programme at any time without obligations......also I believe these positions are interview based like a "real paying job" , if you're not keen well muck up the interview


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    #130
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Well considering it is causing others in employment to lose jobs while companies fill those slots with people on the dole, I would say its worth everyone getting worked up about it.
    This is a sure way to lower the minimum wage and since the landlords are not restricted or set any rules for pricing(which may be fair) there will be alot of people suffering because of this.
    People who are already employed too.
    Im in a full time course sometimes 4 days a week,so am curious what they expect from me.
    I will lose money by taking a position and maybe my training and work experience and job placement.
    All to fill some persons position most likely temporarily, to save the company hiring them for a standard to low wage.
    The only reason the whole nation is not in uproar I think, is because they have no clue about it and it doesnt affect them right now, unless you lose your job, in which case you get labeled a lazy sponger.
    Its an insane scam scheme, that charges the poor and unfortunates for the crimesfailings of bankers and politicians.Or so it seems anyway.


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    #131
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    mrbrown69 wrote: »
    Sounds like you're getting a little too worked up over it....think about it, it's just 19hrs a week...what else would you be doing in that time that's so important unless you have a job of some sort and are claiming (that could upset a few) ....you can still look for proper work and and if successful leave the programme at any time without obligations......also I believe these positions are interview based like a "real paying job" , if you're not keen well muck up the interview

    You really have no idea until you are in the situation. People are losing money having to drive or get buses. Also some places you need shirts and pants and paying for lunches.

    Also if you read back you can see the situation i am in when all i done was take their advice and now i am in trouble. If you get thrown in a place that doesn't suit you can't really leave. If you do your in trouble which you are not told about when you take the job. Even if i do get another job and it's a nightmare i could not turn around and complain about that.

    I would have no problem if i got 19 hours a week in a job that was benefiting me i am glad to be out of the house.


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    #132
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    Torakx wrote: »
    Well considering it is causing others in employment to lose jobs while companies fill those slots with people on the dole, I would say its worth everyone getting worked up about it.
    This is a sure way to lower the minimum wage and since the landlords are not restricted or set any rules for pricing(which may be fair) there will be alot of people suffering because of this.
    People who are already employed too.
    Im in a full time course sometimes 4 days a week,so am curious what they expect from me.
    I will lose money by taking a position and maybe my training and work experience and job placement.
    All to fill some persons position most likely temporarily, to save the company hiring them for a standard to low wage.
    The only reason the whole nation is not in uproar I think, is because they have no clue about it and it doesnt affect them right now, unless you lose your job, in which case you get labeled a lazy sponger.
    Its an insane scam scheme, that charges the poor and unfortunates for the crimesfailings of bankers and politicians.Or so it seems anyway.

    My brother had an interview with a Tus officer, what he took from her is that positions filled are in non-profit organisations...she's putting him onto a place that has no full-time paid employees, it's all voluntary workers and Tus schemers......I can see both sides of the argument, in reality there is slim to no chance of getting full-time work at the end of this scheme so in that sense it's a waste of time....on the other hand it does get people back in the habit of being in a 'work environment'


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    #133
    Dunny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Dunny


    Im being taxed about 40 a week, is it worth going to the tax office because this is bull. I love my placement but thats ridiculous.


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    #134
    Torakx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Thats mad.
    If I took an extra 20 hours thats minimum 40 a week.I already walk an hour in and out of town because i cant afford the bus and eat...
    I heard many people losing more money because they took part in this scheme and tax on top would be the nail in the coffin, if it wasnt already hammered home on just losing my college work experience and course evaluation to this...if I am forced to do it. ^^
    Tomorrow i will head into fas fo a letter stating my full time course attendance and then head into social welfare and find out whats up.


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    #135
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Dunny wrote: »
    Im being taxed about 40 a week, is it worth going to the tax office because this is bull. I love my placement but thats ridiculous.

    It's emergency tax go to your tax office and you will get it all back.


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    #136
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    mrbrown69 wrote: »
    Sounds like you're getting a little too worked up over it....think about it, it's just 19hrs a week...what else would you be doing in that time that's so important unless you have a job of some sort and are claiming (that could upset a few) ....you can still look for proper work and and if successful leave the programme at any time without obligations......also I believe these positions are interview based like a "real paying job" , if you're not keen well muck up the interview

    Not really. The thing i'm worried about is travel expenses as this would leave me with less than the €188 i get of which i'm seriously struggling at the moment so if i end up with less from this scheme then that's a problem, a big problem.

    If i wasn't going to lose money I wouldn't really mind doing this if i was given a suitable TUS job and what i have being doing for the last 16 years is computer repair so i wouldn't mind if i worked at fixing them up for third world countries just for my dole.

    The real joke is the fact that they do you for prsi out of the €20 top-up so paying bus fares all week or petrol is going to leave me with way less than what i'm on.

    Is the 19.5 hours worked in three days or is it 4 hours a day ?


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    #137
    Dunny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Dunny


    I do 4hrs a day.


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    #138
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    zenno wrote: »
    Not really. The thing i'm worried about is travel expenses as this would leave me with less than the €188 i get of which i'm seriously struggling at the moment so if i end up with less from this scheme then that's a problem, a big problem.

    If i wasn't going to lose money I wouldn't really mind doing this if i was given a suitable TUS job and what i have being doing for the last 16 years is computer repair so i wouldn't mind if i worked at fixing them up for third world countries just for my dole.

    The real joke is the fact that they do you for prsi out of the €20 top-up so paying bus fares all week or petrol is going to leave me with way less than what i'm on.

    Is the 19.5 hours worked in three days or is it 4 hours a day ?

    The computer repair place is in Chapelizod and is 3x 6 and half hr days I beleive


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    #139
    danjo-xx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,393 ✭✭✭danjo-xx


    zenno wrote: »

    The real joke is the fact that they do you for prsi out of the €20 top-up

    Not if your earning less than €352 p.w.
    Employees who earn €352 or less per week continue to have no liability to make a PRSI contribution and are not affected by the abolition of the weekly PRSI-Free Allowance.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/budget_2013.html#prsi


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    #140
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,725 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I contacted INOU yesterday they emailed me back looking for my number and rang me this morning. They told me not to worry for now and if i end up having to meet with the dole they will help me out. They told me if the dole are going to cut me to make sure i get it in writing their reasons for doing so. After i told them my story they said they would help me and were reasuring. So anybody needing help i would recommend them.


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    #141
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    The brother attended a "Health and safety" (HA!) programme today as part of this initiative, during which he was pulled aside by a Tus officer handed 2 forms and asked to fill and return them asap.....one form was for his bank details and the other which the officer failed to describe at the time was a "signing off" form for the social welfare stating the date he will be starting with Tus and when they can stop his benefit......the thing is he has not agreed to sign up with this, merely agreed to attend an interview at a placement he might or might not be interested in and might/might not even get in the first place......I've advised him to hold off on that 'signing off' form until he's had that interview because if he didn't get the place he'd be left in something of a pickle.....I realize it's the Tus officers job to get as many signed up as possible it's what they're paid to do and looks good on them to get as many as they can but to me it's seem pushy to say the least


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    #142
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    Torakx wrote: »
    Well considering it is causing others in employment to lose jobs while companies fill those slots with people on the dole, I would say its worth everyone getting worked up about it.

    They say the position has to be created for you , you cannot replace someone else. Although I can't see why employers will take on and pay staff when they get someone for free.


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    #143
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    mrbrown69 wrote: »
    The brother attended a "Health and safety" (HA!) programme today as part of this initiative, during which he was pulled aside by a Tus officer handed 2 forms and asked to fill and return them asap.....one form was for his bank details and the other which the officer failed to describe at the time was a "signing off" form for the social welfare stating the date he will be starting with Tus and when they can stop his benefit......the thing is he has not agreed to sign up with this, merely agreed to attend an interview at a placement he might or might not be interested in and might/might not even get in the first place......I've advised him to hold off on that 'signing off' form until he's had that interview because if he didn't get the place he'd be left in something of a pickle.....I realize it's the Tus officers job to get as many signed up as possible it's what they're paid to do and looks good on them to get as many as they can but to me it's seem pushy to say the least

    It doesn't make any sense to sign off before the interview so you are right to say that. If it doesn't work out he will have no money. That seems very strange that they told him to sign off.
    Not if your earning less than €352 p.w.

    I see. I was getting conflicting reports about this before. Thanks for that information danjo-xx

    This TUS scheme is one hell of a scam the more i read into it, it shouldn't be allowed to continue.


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    #144
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    zenno wrote: »
    It doesn't make any sense to sign off before the interview so you are right to say that. If it doesn't work out he will have no money. That seems very strange that they told him to sign off.


    I thought so too, particularly after she specified to him last week the interview much like a 'real' interview is at the interviewers discretion....he might not get that place and given what else was mentioned there was nothing that appealed, he could hardly go back to the social welfare after 1 week off :rolleyes:


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    #145
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    Great posts from all concerned. My friend is being forced into this however he intends to go back to education and has enquired in his local SW office can he leave the scheme early and apply for the BTEA.

    He has been told no by all concerned in the SW office but the TUS placement officer is telling him he can so he is taking it further and not taking the placement. The SW is very under standing yet the local employment crowd are giving him sh*t.

    It makes no logical sense to start a crappy placement at the expense of a 3rd level qualification.

    Bunch of f*cking idiots in Tus, they don't care about anyone, all they want is to get people off their books and into forced labour.


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    #146
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    Great posts from all concerned. My friend is being forced into this however he intends to go back to education and has enquired in his local SW office can he leave the scheme early and apply for the BTEA.

    He has been told no by all concerned in the SW office but the TUS placement officer is telling him he can so he is taking it further and not taking the placement. The SW is very under standing yet the local employment crowd are giving him sh*t.

    It makes no logical sense to start a crappy placement at the expense of a 3rd level qualification.

    Bunch of f*cking idiots in Tus, they don't care about anyone, all they want is to get people off their books and into forced labour.

    Tus are not the social welfare, they are people within local employment groups who are all under the thumb of the SW......what they are though are people who get paid for being a pain in the arse, 'helping people with opportunities' ?? real help would be having real links to real full time employment


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    #147
    Faith+1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    mrbrown69 wrote: »
    Tus are not the social welfare, they are people within local employment groups who are all under the thumb of the SW......what they are though are people who get paid for being a pain in the arse, 'helping people with opportunities' ?? real help would be having real links to real full time employment

    Couldn't agree more, My friends head is wrecked with the whole situation. Even the way he's addressed on the phone from Tus is beyond disgracful, he's been told they'll send his file to the relevant department stating that he's not co-operating with them, he's wrong about the BTEA and everyone in the SW is giving him the wrong information.

    He say's he is signing sweet f*ck all as the SW have his back and understand he's going to college in Sep and the TUS programme is a load of bollocks.


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    #148
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    mrbrown69 wrote: »
    I thought so too, particularly after she specified to him last week the interview much like a 'real' interview is at the interviewers discretion....he might not get that place and given what else was mentioned there was nothing that appealed, he could hardly go back to the social welfare after 1 week off :rolleyes:

    That's very dodgy indeed that the guy told him to sign off before he even went for the interview. He could be left without a cent and forced into something that is not suitable for him. But there again, these TUS people don't care because once they have you your screwed and also forced to comply in relation to any job they give you and if you do not comply they basically stop paying you.

    I also think that whether a job you are given is suitable or not, the social welfare can use this against you and say that you are not genuinely seeking work as you should take anything that is offered they would say.

    The pc repair that i would have asked for and done is no good to me now as another poster said it is in chapelizod and that is a long way away from where i am in swords co. dublin as travel expenses would eat into my normal €188 payment so i would be losing money doing this.

    Nuts102

    I hope everything works out for you.

    I will be taking a trip down to citizens advice during the week to see what my options are regarding this TUS forced labour scam.


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    #149
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    Faith+1 wrote: »
    Couldn't agree more, My friends head is wrecked with the whole situation. Even the way he's addressed on the phone from Tus is beyond disgracful, he's been told they'll send his file to the relevant department stating that he's not co-operating with them, he's wrong about the BTEA and everyone in the SW is giving him the wrong information.

    He say's he is signing sweet f*ck all as the SW have his back and understand he's going to college in Sep and the TUS programme is a load of bollocks.

    Well that's a turn up, I was under the impression (well from this thread) it's the social welfare turning the screw and Tus bods doing their best to be "helpful"


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    #150
    mrbrown69
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭mrbrown69


    zenno wrote: »
    That's very dodgy indeed that the guy told him to sign off before he even went for the interview. He could be left without a cent and forced into something that is not suitable for him. But there again, these TUS people don't care because once they have you your screwed and also forced to comply in relation to any job they give you and if you do not comply they basically stop paying you.

    I also think that whether a job you are given is suitable or not, the social welfare can use this against you and say that you are not genuinely seeking work as you should take anything that is offered they would say.

    The pc repair that i would have asked for and done is no good to me now as another poster said it is in chapelizod and that is a long way away from where i am in swords co.ublin as travel expenses would eat into my normal €188 payment so i would be losing money doing this.

    Yeah the computer place is where he's been referred to....the catch is there is zero chance of full time employment there, it's a charity place with only volunteers and Tus workers....but in her words to get a job it helps alot to be already in some sort of job, which is very true to an extent

    the other catch is after the 12 months are up they wash their hands of you, Tus no longer applies to you so if not successful in the meantime with job applications you're left to deal with the social welfare sharks, I can see problems there


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    #151
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    mrbrown69 wrote: »
    Yeah the computer place is where he's been referred to....the catch is there is zero chance of full time employment there, it's a charity place with only volunteers and Tus workers....but in her words to get a job it helps alot to be already in some sort of job, which is very true to an extent

    But it's not a job (as in a paying job) it is basically just voluntary work so i can't see this helping anyone get a real job.

    According to other posters, after the 12 months of TUS you are then contacted again by the social welfare to do jobsbridge as an intern.


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