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Mining For Beginners

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    #62
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    https://www.coindesk.com/samsung-is-now-building-bitcoin-mining-chips-report-says/

    Soon you won't need anything other than your phone.

    This will have a massively positive impact on the world of crypto for people who already hold them


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    #63
    thunderdog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭thunderdog


    unkel wrote: »
    Short the green and black? :p

    I've a few of those add2psu yokes. Cheap and handy and a bit safer to use than shorting

    71mUIL7-hdL._SX355_.jpg

    Yeah paperclip in both psu power connectors. I’m surprised how easy it was to set up. Have you any of the antminers out of interest? I’m looking for the best way to soundproof (sound reduce) it. Looks like most people go with the cooler option from what I can see online


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    #64
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Tinder Surprise wrote: »
    I am gonna start CPU mining Electroneum as a bit of a hobby but I'm looking for a bit of help with writing a script file for CPU mining.

    I want to run the script on a number of machines stealthy, as don't want to install a GUI or have anything visually running on screen.

    So far I have signed up for a Mining Pool account and also have a ETN wallet setup.

    So looking for advice on how to create a script file for the above, plus which mining software to use to run it on (keeping in mind the above preferences)
    Totally appreciate it wont make much money but a couple of ETN coins a day from each machine would be a good start into the world of mining, and learn the ropes a bit.

    I had the following pop-up this morning after a couple of weeks mining. I'd guess any 'stealthy' mining operation could potentially set off similar alarm bells, and cause GUI level interference. Easily worked around with specific exceptions written into your AV and firewall software/


    440543.JPG


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    #65
    Tinder Surprise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Tinder Surprise


    smacl wrote: »
    I had the following pop-up this morning after a couple of weeks mining. I'd guess any 'stealthy' mining operation could potentially set off similar alarm bells, and cause GUI level interference. Easily worked around with specific exceptions written into your AV and firewall software/


    440543.JPG

    Thanks for the heads up.

    I haven't proceeded with the above ..Will pick it up again when less busy but all help welcome


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    #66
    opus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,963 ✭✭✭opus


    smacl wrote: »
    Cool. Be interested to hear how you get on. Total noob to mining myself, but thinking of building a small rig at some point in the near future when work is a little less hectic. Thinking multi-GPU with a nVidia and AMD mix.

    Ok it's up & running, have it mining zcash and according to one of the mining calculators it should be doing ~$30/month. If that's true then six months or so should cover the cost of the GPU.

    Reason I went for zcash you might ask, well I happened to listen to an episode of Radiolab called The Ceremony a few months back while out running & it stuck in my mind :)


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    #67
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    opus wrote: »
    Ok it's up & running, have it mining zcash and according to one of the mining calculators it should be doing ~$30/month. If that's true then six months or so should cover the cost of the GPU.

    Reason I went for zcash you might ask, well I happened to listen to an episode of Radiolab called The Ceremony a few months back while out running & it stuck in my mind :)

    Nice one, I was mining ZEC through minergate briefly, but switched to Claymore and ETH after reading some reviews suggesting minergate was dodgy. Not sure whether that's the case or not, but Claymore is coming up with about 65% improved hashrate and the online calculators showed better returns on ETH for my card.


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    #68
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Is there any import duty to be paid on Antminers coming from outside the EU?


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    #69
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Of course there is. It might or it might not get caught. But the duty (and the VAT, which is much higher than the duty!) is due anyway. There's also an admin charge from the courier / postal service collecting the duties, which seems to be at least €10.


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    #70
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Alondra Tasty Uppermost wrote: »
    Is there any import duty to be paid on Antminers coming from outside the EU?

    VAT on point of entry and duty as unkel said. Usually you get the vendor to include a pro-forma invoice which become the basis for which these are calculated.


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    #71
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    unkel wrote: »
    Of course there is. It might or it might not get caught. But the duty (and the VAT, which is much higher than the duty!) is due anyway. There's also an admin charge from the courier / postal service collecting the duties, which seems to be at least €10.

    Cheers, I understand the VAT but I'm having trouble finding the duty rate on any of the calculators, what's the rate ?


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    #72
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I could be wrong but the duty on many computer parts is 10% so I presume it's the same on an ASIC miner and related parts. And also afaik the VAT is due on the value of the parts + the value of the shipping costs + the value of the insurance on the shipping. And the lot at 23%. It does all add up.

    That said, some of the people in Ireland seem to be offering Bitmain miners for 2 or even 3 times the nominal value. Most of that is their profit, and not taxes and duties. Beware of that.


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    #73
    h0neybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭h0neybadger


    I've imported several hundred Antminers and Avalon miners.

    For VAT, the standard 23% is due on the total price of the miner and shipping cost.

    If they're for yourself and not for re-sale, then you can claim your V.A.T back if running as a sole trader or Ltd company.

    No duty is due when using the correct TARIC codes
    http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

    Miners - Classified under 8542 31 11 for multi-component integrated circuits. (MCO's)
    However, these can also be classified under 8471 41 00 90

    Power supplies. Classified under 8504 40 30 90.

    As most hardware comes from China, it carries a 0% Duty on them.

    Only charges due will be the admin charge for the shipping company of choice and the V.A.T.
    If you import a large amount, you'll need a shipping agent to handle customs clearance, and their charge is usually €40-€60 in total.
    I'd recommend Emerald Freight.
    https://www.emeraldfreight.com/


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    #74
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    How confident are you about those TARIC codes? I often find it hard to select the right one and be confident it is the correct one. It's a big mess really.
    h0neybadger wrote: »
    If they're for yourself and not for re-sale, then you can claim your V.A.T back

    You can claim back the VAT either way :p

    Serious question: did you not have those valuable shipments insured in any way? If you did, VAT is also due on the shipment insurance.


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    #75
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    h0neybadger wrote: »
    I've imported several hundred Antminers and Avalon miners.

    For VAT, the standard 23% is due on the total price of the miner and shipping cost.

    If they're for yourself and not for re-sale, then you can claim your V.A.T back if running as a sole trader or Ltd company.

    No duty is due when using the correct TARIC codes
    http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

    Miners - Classified under 8542 31 11 for multi-component integrated circuits. (MCO's)
    However, these can also be classified under 8471 41 00 90

    Power supplies. Classified under 8504 40 30 90.

    As most hardware comes from China, it carries a 0% Duty on them.

    Only charges due will be the admin charge for the shipping company of choice and the V.A.T.
    If you import a large amount, you'll need a shipping agent to handle customs clearance, and their charge is usually €40-€60 in total.
    I'd recommend Emerald Freight.
    https://www.emeraldfreight.com/

    Very comprehensive and answered me completely - thank you.


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    #76
    h0neybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭h0neybadger


    unkel wrote: »
    How confident are you about those TARIC codes? I often find it hard to select the right one and be confident it is the correct one. It's a big mess really.



    You can claim back the VAT either way :p

    Serious question: did you not have those valuable shipments insured in any way? If you did, VAT is also due on the shipment insurance.

    Ah, wasn't sure regarding VAT for re-selling. But I didn't re-sell, so didn't affect me :)

    Yeah, the TARIC codes are correct, as I worked with Revenue to describe the units for what they physically are and their purpose.

    Also confirmed them with several others on Reddit who used those codes.

    And yes, totally forgot the insurance! But I always had it included in the delivery costs with my supplier. Worked out a lot cheaper and easier that way.


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    #77
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I know this is a long shot but anyone out there who may have some old usb miners somewhere in the drawer gathering dust? I would love to get one or two. Like errupters or red fury.


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    #78
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Haha this thread is a blast from the past :D

    I'm still mining but I usually stop during the summer. I have only one miner, almost fully powered off my solar panels (I have all the roofs of my house plastered with them) during the day and off the night rate at night (which is mostly from renewable electricity). It is profitable at the moment, but even during times in the past when it was loss making, it provided a cheap way of heating my living room, the biggest and coldest room in my house.
    patnor1011 wrote: »
    I know this is a long shot but anyone out there who may have some old usb miners somewhere in the drawer gathering dust? I would love to get one or two. Like errupters or red fury.

    I have a Bitmain Antrouter R1-LTC, new in box, never used. Got it as part of a deal buying other stuff. Tiny little thing. Google it. If you are interested I can sell it to you for whatever they go for on eBay, minus say a 30% discount.


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    #79
    thunderdog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭thunderdog


    I sold off all my asic miners over the last few months. I just have the 1 gpu miner left, which consists of 6x 4gb Rx580s. I was mining ETH but given the dag size limit problem for 4gb GPUs, I’m on the lookout for a decent coin to mine with the above setup.

    I had jumped over to mining zcash but hadn’t realised that asic miners are completely dominating that coin now. I’ve since moved to mining PIRL, but that’s more of a placeholder for the moment. Any good suggestions on what to mine (given the dag limit for the 4gb GPUs)?


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    #80
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    DAG size with 4GB graphics ram GPUs is not yet a problem if you mine on a machine running Linux. It's only a problem on Windows.

    And it's of course an option to sell the 4GB cards to gamers and general PC users and then buy 8GB cards. I've done this myself in the past too.


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    #81
    thunderdog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭thunderdog


    unkel wrote: »
    DAG size with 4GB graphics ram GPUs is not yet a problem if you mine on a machine running Linux. It's only a problem on Windows.

    And it's of course an option to sell the 4GB cards to gamers and general PC users and then buy 8GB cards. I've done this myself in the past too.

    My 4gb gpus are now struggling on the current Eth DAG epoch (using phoenixminer on HIVE OS). Out of interest, did you go second hand for the 8GB cards-if so, is eBay the best bet?


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    #82
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Yeah 4GB GPUs are now out of the race I'm afraid for ETH mining, even on Hive OS. They were pretty useless on Windows 10 for the last few weeks. I sold my last two of them last week, only have 8GB cards left now.

    I bought all the cards that I currently have second hand. Prices have firmed up pretty badly though in the last month or two because of shortage of new graphics cards for sale and mining becoming profitable again. If you can't get them for reasonable money and in the likely event their second hand value will drop early next year, you run the risk of your mining being loss making (unless you have free electricity)


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    #83
    thunderdog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭thunderdog


    Cheers, which 8GB cards did you end up with? I’m on 4gb rx-580s (still getting 26.5 mhash per card) at the moment so I’ll probably look at getting the 8GB equivalent. Although tempted to get 1 rx5700xt to test it out


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    #84
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I got a 5700XT card last week. Great for mining, got 54Mh/s out of the box standard BIOS (but with some clocking / volting mods in the miner) and got it at a reasonable price. Very efficient card too compared to the older generation. Wanted to get a few more, but was hugely outbid several times. So I changed my mind and sold it a few days later for €95 more than I paid for it :p

    I have all different 8GB cards. Have RX470 / 570 / 480 / 580


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    #85
    thunderdog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭thunderdog


    unkel wrote: »
    I got a 5700XT card last week. Great for mining, got 54Mh/s out of the box standard BIOS (but with some clocking / volting mods in the miner) and got it at a reasonable price. Very efficient card too compared to the older generation. Wanted to get a few more, but was hugely outbid several times. So I changed my mind and sold it a few days later for €95 more than I paid for it :p

    I have all different 8GB cards. Have RX470 / 570 / 480 / 580

    Nice, surprised you sold the 5700xt, I’d be hanging onto that gpu!

    My vague plan is to keep selling my rx 580 4gb for the 8GB equivalent until I reach my last gpu (6th card) where I plan to splash out on an rx 5700xt and work up from there


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    #86
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    thunderdog wrote: »
    Nice, surprised you sold the 5700xt, I’d be hanging onto that gpu!

    Of course I sold it. It made me more profit in just a few days by flipping it than it could have made me in mining over several months :)
    thunderdog wrote: »
    My vague plan is to keep selling my rx 580 4gb for the 8GB equivalent

    Problem is you are not alone with that plan. 4GB cards still have reasonable value because of gamers, but the prices of 8GB cards have gone bonkers on the likes of eBay because of miners. You could still buy an occasional reasonably priced 8GB card if you do a lot of looking. Or buy them in bulk from ex-miners who have stopped and need to pay some big bills.


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    #87
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    Are there any alts worth mining at all? Say for example you already had hardware and free electricity?

    On an old RX570 8GB card? or that just madness?


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    #88
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Ethereum mining is still the most profitable for AMD cards. If there is an alt that you believe / hope will go to the moon, your best bet is still to mine ETH and then just buy that alt with your mining revenue.

    There could of course be coins that don't trade yet, but that you could mine. As a shot to nothing if you like :D


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    #89
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    km991148 wrote: »
    Are there any alts worth mining at all? Say for example you already had hardware and free electricity?

    On an old RX570 8GB card? or that just madness?

    NiceHash or ETH if electricity's free. Nicehash's software is the easiest to use and can use your CPU too.

    Don't expect too much from a 570, it'll generate something like 0.6 ETH in a year (currently 0.8 but will reduce as the price increases the demand for GPUs will continue to surge so I'm kinda averaging based on a guess and past performance), but if you think that amount will be worth a lot more in a few years it's virtually brainless not to.


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    #90
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    grindle wrote: »
    Don't expect too much from a 570, it'll generate something like 0.6 ETH in a year

    A 570 costs around €100 on adverts. In a year you'll probably get €60 back for it. It uses about 140W (including overheads) at the wall. If you pay 14c for your electricity and you don't have night rate or solar PV, this will cost you €170 in electricity

    So, simplified and disregarding any other hardware costs and your time of installing / maintaining:

    Revenue: 0.6ETH * €500 = €300, electricity costs €170, so operating profit €130

    Invest €100 in a graphics card and after a year this will be worth a €60 graphics card plus €130 profit, or a near 100% ROI

    Beats the 1% you'd get on a savings account...


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    #91
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    That's pretty much worst case scenario BTW. In my own case, my electricity rate is lower than that, I also have night rate and I have a large solar PV array. Since starting mining, I have generally sold my hardware after use for more than I paid for it. And I don't get anywhere near 1% return after tax on my savings account. And I heat parts of my house with mining, so I have a substantial saving on my heating bill...


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