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New York Bar Exams

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    #92
    2ndtimer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭2ndtimer


    Getting_Steads wrote: »
    Hey 2ndtimer and osullivem. Glad to hear there's more people out there using Micromash. Only after I got it did I start hearing of BarBri, which is apparently quite popular state side.

    How are your scores looking so far on the practice MCQs? I'm hovering around the 50% mark at the moment on the MBE subjects. But I haven't looked at the NY portion yet.

    I must admit I'm finding it hard to get motivated to study given we're just under 13 weeks away.

    Anyway just thought I'd pop into this thread. Hopefully as it gets closer we can share ideas/tips! Here's a good site I found for Bar advice: http://www.seperac.com/bar/

    Hi,

    My MBE scores are hovering around the 50% mark. Must admit that im finding evidence and in particular all the hearsay exceptions quite tricky. At present im just doing MBE questions on days designated for MBE and making notes of them, dont think I will be able to get through the text books so im using them for reference and learning by doing the questions. Is quite disheartening when you get very low scores though.

    Have started NY questions and essay questions aswell, seems like a mountain to get through, particularly CPLR:mad:.

    That and the flights to NY have went up from €500 to €700...ahh Im having a bad day, that and I just failed my last fe-1!!

    How is everyone else getting on??


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    #93
    Mickalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Mickalis


    Sorry to hear that you failed your last Fe1 2ndTimer :( Hang in there though. Once you get the NY bar exam out of the way youll only have one Fe1 to do to finish everything off :) !

    This is just a general question for anyone who might have done either of the courses in Ireland or heard anything about them. I'm in the middle of doing my Fe1s (just passed my first four) and have my second four in the Sept/Oct sitting. And then I have about a year off before I have to start my training contract in Sept 2011. So once the Fe1s finish in October I was thinking of straight away taking the Independent Colleges NY Bar course for the Bar Exams in the 2011 Feb sitting. I was just curious if anyone has done that course or the other Friary Law one in Ireland and what's your opinion on them? Would it be better getting the Barbri stuff myself and just studying? (Try and take the price of the revision course out of it) It says on Indep Colleges that they use Micromash also. Any opinions on which is better, that or Barbri? Thanks for all your help and any opinions you guys might have :) !


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    #94
    2ndtimer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭2ndtimer


    Mickalis wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that you failed your last Fe1 2ndTimer :( Hang in there though. Once you get the NY bar exam out of the way youll only have one Fe1 to do to finish everything off :) !

    This is just a general question for anyone who might have done either of the courses in Ireland or heard anything about them. I'm in the middle of doing my Fe1s (just passed my first four) and have my second four in the Sept/Oct sitting. And then I have about a year off before I have to start my training contract in Sept 2011. So once the Fe1s finish in October I was thinking of straight away taking the Independent Colleges NY Bar course for the Bar Exams in the 2011 Feb sitting. I was just curious if anyone has done that course or the other Friary Law one in Ireland and what's your opinion on them? Would it be better getting the Barbri stuff myself and just studying? (Try and take the price of the revision course out of it) It says on Indep Colleges that they use Micromash also. Any opinions on which is better, that or Barbri? Thanks for all your help and any opinions you guys might have :) !

    Hi,

    I bought micromash direct from them and am very impressed so far. I taught myself through the Fe-1s coming from a QUB Law degree so am used to private study/learning by own. I think you would be mad to pay the €5k for independent. I used the micromash study now pay later; you pay $450 dollars now and the balance of $1200 one month after you sit the exam.

    If you can afford independent and like classroom learning they have a great record, 5 out of 5 who sat it last year passed it. They use BarBri.

    As for the difficulty and workload, its comparable to Fe-1s depending on your interpretation but is completely practice focused. There are no essay questions requiring you to critically exam some piece of new legislation, simply problem questions which unlike Fe-1s do not focus heavily (if at all) by reaming off loads of cases. Topic mixing is frequent though so you will have loads going on in a question; e.g a divorce, negligence, intestacy and evidence.

    I will say though that learning Court procedure and the rules of evidence are something very different to a Law degree and Fe-1s, and although not the same rules, are akin to what barrister's have to learn here.

    Hope some of that helps.


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    #95
    Mickalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Mickalis


    Wow, that article would nearly put me off doing the bar :rolleyes: :)

    Just wondering if anyone who has posted here has started taking any of the revision courses that go on in Ireland? And if you have your opinion on them and how you're getting on with it? Thanks :)


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    #96
    bar man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭bar man


    So you have decided to grasp the nettle and take the NY bar. The most important things to remember are:
    1/ it is a hard exam, but 75% of people pass the exam – load of foreigners fail, but most of them speak english as a 2nd language.
    2/ there is too much material to learn, except there are lots of things you won't learn, don't get caught up in micro details, if you don't understand something, put a mark by it and move on.


    You should read the www.seperac.com/bar website before you start to study, he has a lot of good info on the exam.


    What's is the format of the exam
    Day 1 – NY day – 5 Essays, the MPT and 50 NY state multichoice
    Day 2 – MBE – 200 Common law multichoice covering 6 subjects only – criminal, constitutional, contract, tort, evidence and property.


    The Essays
    90% of essay questions are on the 8 topics listed below. Don't waste lots of time on trusts or other things that rarely come up. Take secured transactions for example – you could spend days learning it and it wont do you any good. All you need from these topics are the basic definitions.
    1/ Criminal 16%
    2/ Wills 15%
    3/ Tort 13%
    4/ Contract 12%
    5/ Dom Relations 10%
    6/ NY Practice 9%
    7/ Corporations 8%
    8/ Property 7%
    From this list you can see the important NY subjects are Wills, Dom Relations, Corporations and NY Practice, these are always on the exam, this is where you NY study time should go, not conflicts of law, federal procedure etc.


    NY Multichoice
    These are hard, most people only get 50% here, do all of the practice questions in the BarBri NY book, if you can get more than ½ right, move on.


    MPT
    These are the closed world questions – you have an hour and a half to read a 20 page file and contains a set of facts, imaginary statutes and imaginary cases, all set in a fictitious jurisdiction.
    All of the past MPTs are online, with marking sheets. NB NY only asks for letters or memos or similar, don't waste any time doing out wills or anything but letters. If you are asked for something persuasive, don't just state the law, state it from your position. Cite and distinguish cases that don't favour your position. Sounds obvious, but people screw this up.
    Write out 3 or 4 of these against the clock, one days prep is ample.


    MBE
    This is the most important part of the exam! If you can get a high MBE score, you will pass. To do well on the MBE you need to do at least 1500 prep questions. Listen to the MP3s and review the outlines – do not memorise the outlines, most of your study time should be spent doing practice questions.
    Keep a spreadsheet of your results and track what you are scoring for every 10 questions. With no study you will probably get ½ of the questions right. For the first 600 questions or so, I was consistently getting between 50-60%, but about 10 days before the exam it just clicked and I started to get 70-80%.
    To pass you need about 135 on the MBE, this is a scaled score, that equate to getting about 65% raw. The general theory on the bar exam is if you can get a high MBE, you will pass with poor essays.
    It is essential you take the online NCBE tests, I recommend you save these until close to the exam, I would do one 2 weeks before the exam, and the other one a week before the exam. Some of the questions on these tests will be repeated on the actual exam.




    How much time should you allow to prepare?
    I recommend 2 months part-time and one month full time. This allows for 6 weeks part time for the MBE – one week per subject, and 2-3 weeks for NY part-time. The goal here is to have gone over all of the topics once, so you can identify them – no memorizing at this point – you should aim to have completed about 1000 questions by this time.
    In the one month full time you will distill and refine all of your notes and save the memorizing for the last week.
    Note – This is a goal – I didnt do this much work.


    What material/books do I need?
    You don't need to spend the money on BarBri or any other course.
    The best way to go about the exam is to download MP3s online – check the pirate bay. You can also find summaries there, there are also some on www.seperac.com


    Out side of that, there are only 2 books you will need, you can pick these up on ebay or elsewhere online.
    1/ The BarBri New York Book – this book contains 100 sample essays and a couple of hundred sample NY multichoice. It is really good practice to write outline answers for the essays, you should also do all the NY multichoice questions.
    2/ PMBR Blue or Red Book – These books contain hundreds of sample questions – they are more similar to the actual exam questions than BarBri (which I found to be easier and shorter than the actual exam questions). The more sample questions you do, the better you will do on the bar.


    Audio Lectures
    There are really good MP3 lectures on the pirate bay. You should put these on you ipod and listen to them everywhere you go. Don't turn on the radio until you are finished this exam. It is amazing how much you will pick up just by having them on everytime you get into the car. You will find yourself getting really sick of them, when that happens is means you are learning the material and it is getting stuck in your head. I have my earphones in for the whole month of July, walking, driving, at the gym – it works – do it.




    Answer Format
    You should check out the Seperac “Master” document. It is good to glance at to see what has come up over the last 30 exams, but I found the answers in it to be a bit ****. They are long, and verbose. Remember the attorneys who correct your exam only get $3/essay – make their life easy and they will give you a passing mark – state the law clearly, and underline/bold key words – no fancy stuff. You wont be able to remember a half page of law for the exam, don't bother trying.


    Summary
    Don't by a course, you wont need it.
    Listen to the MP3s everywhere you go/drive. It is the easiest way to get familiar with the material.
    Do as many MBE questions as you can, start doing these questions from day 1, don't leave them till the end.
    Don't get sidetracked, stick to the core MBE subjects and the key NY subjects listed above. If you message me, Ill send you my summaries for the NY day.


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    #97
    bar man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭bar man


    I'm selling all my study materials:
    • mp3s for all the subjects
    • concise summaries for all topics
    • testing software
    The lot for €450 – this includes everything you need to successfully pass the bar.
    For €500 Ill give you the materials and Ill spend 2 hours with you going through the notes, show you what is important, and what isn't and pass on all the exam strategy you will need.
    Send me a private message if you are interested.


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    #98
    cfarrell1980
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭cfarrell1980


    Great summary - thanks for putting this together - it really helps!

    One more thing - would you mind putting together some thoughts on the actual NY application. With an irish law degree (listed on the Kings Inns schedule of approved degrees) it should be possible to apply directly - i.e. without doing the advance evaluation of eligibility from http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm - or not?

    The advance evaluation form states that your law school/university has to send the documents directly to the NY Board of Law Examiners - i.e. it isn't enough for you to get official copies of your degree and post them yourself.

    I'm still wondering about how to prove that my law degree 'meets the educational criteria necessary for admission to the bar in Ireland'. I know it does - it is listed third on the Kings Inns schedule of approved law degrees at their website. Apparently Friary Law has advised some applicants to send a print out of the Kings Inns website - not sure if this is enough.

    Any thoughts?


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    #99
    bar man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭bar man


    You need to get a letter from your law school that says your degree meets the requirements set out on the NY Bole website. Get your university to include this letter with the transcripts they send to NY.
    Note - you need the college to send the scripts direct, this is standard practice for your exams office so no big deal.


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    #100
    cfarrell1980
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭cfarrell1980


    That sounds easy enough then.

    Did you do the advance evaluation or did you just go and apply directly for the exam?


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    #101
    bar man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭bar man


    I applied direct, but if you have the time, it would be better to do it in advance. Ive heard of people forgetting to include necessary documents and only finding out they can't sit the exam after they have bought their plane tickets.


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    #102
    Getting_Steads
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭Getting_Steads


    I have the entire barbri materials needed for complete bar prepartion. This includes not only the books but the lecture handouts and practice MBE questions which must be completed for day 2 of the exam (roughly 1500).

    Like bar_man says above I totally agree that there's no point in investing thousands of euro in lectures which will only make you more stressed. The amount of material to get through seems overwhelming but you don't need to know it all!! Its only when you become smart with your study and review of the sample answers on the nybole website do you see that there is a method to getting through.

    I used http://www.seperac.com/bar/ aswell and couldnt recommend it more. I even subscribed to the content site which you pay for and it was the best decision I ever made. I still have all the material from the subscription part of this website aswell which includes MP3s of core topics, statistical analysis of each area of the exam so you only study was is necessary and not irrelevant material which does not feature.

    If anyone is interested in purchasing the barbri/seperac materials drop me a line with a reasonable offer. I'll also go over everything you need to know to get started and how to study for the bar. Any other questions, just drop me a line.


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    #103
    Meadbdh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Meadbdh


    Hi I was thinking of doing the New York Bar exams this February but I am working and won't be able to take time off to study - do you think these exams are doable without an intense few weeks/months of studying?

    Many thanks in advance.


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    #104
    bar man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭bar man


    no


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    #105
    Alpha99
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Alpha99


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Why would you do the NY bar exams for any other reason than to practise law in NY?

    I had a lot of trouble getting a training contract. Having taken the NY bar exam I was able to take the QLTT's and qualify without a training contract.

    Also, if you are in legal practice as a solicitor or barrister, it is easy to "specialize" in a specific area of law. If you want to maintain a workable knowledge of many diverse legal fields, there is nothing better then to study for a common law bar exam. I have recently taken Maryland and found it very helpful for maintaining a good knowledge of things that escape from your mind over time.

    I know it sounds ridiculous, but I am thinking about California just because I want to test myself every couple of years. And, it would make a nice holiday to go out there.


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    #106
    Jarndyce
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Jarndyce


    Alpha99 wrote: »
    I had a lot of trouble getting a training contract. Having taken the NY bar exam I was able to take the QLTT's and qualify without a training contract.

    Also, if you are in legal practice as a solicitor or barrister, it is easy to "specialize" in a specific area of law. If you want to maintain a workable knowledge of many diverse legal fields, there is nothing better then to study for a common law bar exam. I have recently taken Maryland and found it very helpful for maintaining a good knowledge of things that escape from your mind over time.

    I know it sounds ridiculous, but I am thinking about California just because I want to test myself every couple of years. And, it would make a nice holiday to go out there.

    So you passed the NY bar exam and then went on to sit the Maryland bar exam? Are the bar exams of each state less difficult when you have passed the initial exams (in your case, NY)? By that I mean, do you then sit transititional exams for state to state that are less rigorous than the NY exams or is it the same workload each time?


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    #107
    legal eagle 1
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭legal eagle 1


    Alpha99 wrote: »
    I had a lot of trouble getting a training contract. Having taken the NY bar exam I was able to take the QLTT's and qualify without a training contract.

    Also, if you are in legal practice as a solicitor or barrister, it is easy to "specialize" in a specific area of law. If you want to maintain a workable knowledge of many diverse legal fields, there is nothing better then to study for a common law bar exam. I have recently taken Maryland and found it very helpful for maintaining a good knowledge of things that escape from your mind over time.

    I know it sounds ridiculous, but I am thinking about California just because I want to test myself every couple of years. And, it would make a nice holiday to go out there.

    Just curious if you are working as a solicitor now? and if you found it hard to secure a job having only done exams and not a training contract?


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    #108
    Alpha99
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Alpha99


    Jarndyce wrote: »
    So you passed the NY bar exam and then went on to sit the Maryland bar exam? Are the bar exams of each state less difficult when you have passed the initial exams (in your case, NY)? By that I mean, do you then sit transititional exams for state to state that are less rigorous than the NY exams or is it the same workload each time?

    Each state have different rules. I was able to do Maryland because I had already been admitted in New York. I was required to take the general bar exam but it is possible to do a special bar exam for out of state attorneys. I wasn't able to do this, so I didn't look into it further.


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    #109
    Alpha99
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Alpha99


    legal eagle 1 wrote: »
    Just curious if you are working as a solicitor now? and if you found it hard to secure a job having only done exams and not a training contract?

    Yes, I qualified at the NY bar in June 07 and then as a solicitor in April 08 and was employed at a law firm until May 09 when I left to do an LL.M.. Just back from the states now as I was studying over there and I've been searching for a job for a few weeks and not having much luck...


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    #110
    ID@THEWIDOWS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭ID@THEWIDOWS


    Hi All

    I intend on taking the New York Bar in Feb 2011 and I am just wondering would anyone have a complete 12 week study schedule for doing this. I intend on taking the prep course in independent colleges commencing the 11th of October. I would also like to meet or speak to people who have previous experiences of doing the exam and who could share some tips on how to pass it. I would also like to hear from people who plan on taking the exam and possibly we can meet and study in groups or offer each other assistance in some way.


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    #111
    Mickalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Mickalis


    Yo ID@THEWIDOWS,

    Am taking the Independent Colleges revision course also so will be seeing you there I guess. As far as study guides go I'm sure the lecturers in the college will be able to help you out with all the info about that and info about the exam itself seeing as most of the lecs have done it themselves!


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    #112
    Jen249
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭Jen249


    Hi, I am selling my NY Barbri Bar Exam Book Set (2009 edition) and outline for 800 euro. Call or text 086 0708001 for further details.


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    #113
    cfarrell1980
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭cfarrell1980


    You need to get a letter from your law school that says your degree meets the requirements set out on the NY Bole website. Get your university to include this letter with the transcripts they send to NY.
    Note - you need the college to send the scripts direct, this is standard practice for your exams office so no big deal.

    Just for the record, I got an email back from the NYBOLE last week telling me that I am eligible to sit the exam. I have to get my application in by April (for the July exam) so I have time until then...


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    #114
    lizette112162
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭lizette112162


    Hello, I am taking the NY Bar exam in February 2011. I have some Barbri outlines and kaplan mp3s which I can send out to those who are interested.


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    #115
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    New Rules on Reciprocity:
    Admission of Attorneys Licensed to Practice Law in other Jurisdictions
    (1) Attorneys who have taken and passed the bar examination in another qualifying jurisdiction, who are active members of the bar in that qualifying jurisdiction, and who have lawfully engaged in the active, substantial and continuous practice of law for no less than five of the seven years immediately preceding their application for admission under this rule may be admitted to the practice of law in Oregon without having to take and pass the Oregon bar examination, subject to the requirements of this rule.
    (2) For purposes of this rule, a “qualifying jurisdiction” means any other United States jurisdiction which allows attorneys licensed in Oregon to become regular members of the bar in that jurisdiction without passage of that jurisdiction’s bar examination.


    It now appears that there is reciprocity across all US states, meaning that in most cases you will not have to take a new exam to gain another state bar qualification - there are some other requirements (essentially 15 hours CPD)


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    #116
    chopser
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭chopser


    Can anyone tell me how much are the examination fees to sit the New York Bar?


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    #117
    Mickalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭Mickalis


    chopser wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me how much are the examination fees to sit the New York Bar?

    It costs $750 to sit the New York Bar exam. This is the first year that it has been so much for non-US people. Before this it was only $250. But you have to also pay to sit the ethics exam which comes two-three weeks after the New York bar, even though you don't have to do this straight away. I think it's $68 before a certain date and then it doubles.


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    #118
    dpw
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭dpw


    I found this website when looking for how to indicate on my resume that I've been approved to take the UK bar and have already taken one of the 3 heads. Any advice is appreciated.

    I'd also like to give some advice on taking the NY (or any state) bar exam, since I do have some experience with that.

    By way of background, I am a US attorney, practicing at a firm now for 2 years. I took the New York and Connecticut bar exams in July 08, and then waived into Washington DC on January 1st 2010.

    As for bar exam courses, I’m not sure what’s available out of the US, but it seems that at least one of the programs I’ve read about uses Barbri books. Bar preparation courses are key. Absolutely key. As the Dean of my former law school said at an end-of-law-school-pre-bar discussion with my year: you will not pass the bar without a proper bar preparation course.

    There are other courses, but Barbri is by far the largest and the most respected. While I’m not sure of the NY Bar passage rate of non-US common law graduates, I do know that the passage rate for foreign attorneys is somewhere around 50% or below. Compare that to 85-90%% of US law school graduates. That lies largely with preparation – and that would particularly be the case, in my opinion, for common law attorneys. Take the full course, since the videos (lectures) are also extremely helpful.

    In addition, I would very seriously recommend PMBR. While Barbri teaches state and multistate, PMBR teaches only multistate. I didn’t find their course very helpful, but the books are key. They have some great stories about people who take the bar multiple times, and who haven’t used PMBR - the next time around, they study with PMBR, and voila, they pass. While this is of course all marketing, there is some truth to it. Think about it, you have thousands of multistate questions literally based on or from past multistate exams. If you master this, you have a far greater chance of passing. Of course the Barbri books have a lot of Multistate Qs, but I hear that PMBR is better. I never did any Barbri Multistate questions.

    Study time is also important. While preparation begins right after law school, say, May 20th, and the exam is July 31st, the majority of students don't start hitting the books hard until after the July 4th weekend. That means about 3.5 weeks of hardcore (read 10-18 hours) of studying a day. Personally, I started hitting the books hard around May and June, and burned myself out the last weeks (barely studied the last days). But I did put in a lot of time in the beginning, consistently. If you want to be sure to pass, I would certainly suggest starting your studying when the course begins and ramping it up mid June. If you can hit it hard from the beginning, that’s best of course.

    I think that’s probably more than enough info. I apologize if this has already been discussed to death, but seeing the thread, I think it should help at least one person on this board.

    Good luck!


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    #119
    Rabeile31
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Rabeile31


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I've had good experience with Independent in their King's Inns prep course and I will be doing the California bar prep with them in the next year. It's my understanding that Griffith does these prep courses too, but I'd stay well away from that place.

    Just wondering why you dont recommend Griffith? is that just for the new york course or any course?


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    #120
    A14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭A14


    Hi,

    Just in case anyones interested in buying materials for the NY Bar I'm selling a full set of BarBri books (2009 version) , lecture outlines, MPT workbook, Essay workbook along with over 500 practice MBE questions and two practice exams.
    €500 for everything.

    Passed first time in February 2011 using these materials.

    Send a message if interested !
    :)


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    #121
    AlisonMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭AlisonMartin


    lawbooks2 wrote: »
    See http://www.adverts.ie/school-college...m-books/587787

    Micromash bar Review Series, (used in last years February exam)

    Winter 2009/Summer 2010

    Includes:

    The Micromash MBE Review, An Introduction
    MBE in Brief ( Condensed Outlines)
    MBE Reference Vol 1 (Constitutional Law, Criminal Law & Procedure, Evidence)
    MBE Reference Vol 2 (Contracts, Real Property, Torts)
    Sample MBE Test
    MBE Excel
    State Review, Introductory Text
    State Review Vol 1 -4
    Multistate Performance Test

    Excellent condition, will sell at a very reasonable price, collection or delivery available. All offers considered! PM if interested
    how much are you selling these for?
    thanks,
    Alison


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