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Straight Pride

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Go read who organised this event please. This event, like most other "straight pride" events was malicious and homophobic.

    No thanks. This event maybe malicious. I was responding to someone who said that having straight pride is almost always homophobic or malicious.

    I'm of the opinion that you (not you personally) can go **** yourself if you feel you can tell me what I can and can't be proud of.

    I'm horribly intolerant in that way. I don't think people should be able to bully you into feeling ashamed or not proud of who you are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    No one is stopping you. The issue here, as has been said many times, is that most of these "straight pride" events are done under false pretenses. They usually are malicious in nature and homophobic. No one is telling you that you can't be proud of being straight or whatever other argument you're trying to have.

    We'll, yes. Some posters are saying exactly that:
    "But having straight pride is basically a "f**k you" to the LGBT community. So if they weren't pr1cks and they had a straight pride what would the pride be for? What's it's purpose?"

    So I'm glad you're not doing that, but some posters are saying exactly that so the question still applies to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Padre_Pio wrote:
    But be prepared to have your parade infiltrated by people who will use it as a platform to bash non-hetero people, or people who don't conform to a conservative, religious view of the world.

    I'd also have to be prepared for people calling me homophobic and protesting that my sexuality is not worthy of being proud of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,351 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I'd also have to be prepared for people calling me homophobic and protesting that my sexuality is not worthy of being proud of.

    Based on what evidence?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Padre_Pio wrote:
    Based on what evidence?

    This thread?


  • Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Somedaythefire


    We'll, yes. Some posters are saying exactly that:
    "But having straight pride is basically a "f**k you" to the LGBT community. So if they weren't pr1cks and they had a straight pride what would the pride be for? What's it's purpose?"

    So I'm glad you're not doing that, but some posters are saying exactly that so the question still applies to them.
    Well, we're in a thread about a "f**k you" to LGBT community event. To my knowledge there has never been a "straight pride" event that wasn't malicious in nature like the OP. The apprehension comes from that.


    Most of these events are born through hatred, rather than love which is what a pride march should be about regardless of sexuality. That makes a lot of us question the motives behind people proclaiming "straight pride"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,351 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Ironicname wrote: »
    This thread?

    I don't see anyone here calling you homophobic for being proud of being straight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Marches usually have a reason or an aim. Gay pride's reason stems from Stonewall.



    What reason/aim is behind a straight pride march? The reason for the one in the OP and a lot of others is hatred, hence the apprehension.



    If you just decided to organise a march for next month with no reason or aim, it wouldn't do very well. So as a question, what do you think the reasoning behind holding a straight pride march would be? How would you get people interested in going to it? What is the hook that will make people want to march? For gay pride, that was discrimination and feeling left out and/or different by society.

    We'll, I wouldn't set up a straight pride parade personally because I don't feel strongly about it.

    Someone could be proud of their sexuality for any number of reasons. So it would all depend on the answer to the question "why are you celebrating straight pride?"

    There's no way you can tell me or anyone else what they can or can't be proud of. Think about it for a second. It's bang out of order and it's the exact opposite to the sentiment that allows straight people support gay pride. Or non Muslims support the Muslims celebrating Eid, or anything where people support other people celebrating something about themselves that doesn't apply to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Padre_Pio wrote:
    I don't see anyone here calling you homophobic for being proud of being straight.

    Probably because I've not said I was.

    I'm saying that a lot of posters on here have said that straight pride marches are born from homophobia or hatred. Therefore, if I was to organise one, it wouldn't be too far fetched that there would be counter protests levelling the same accusations at me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Somedaythefire


    We'll, I wouldn't set up a straight pride parade personally because I don't feel strongly about it.

    Someone could be proud of their sexuality for any number of reasons. So it would all depend on the answer to the question "why are you celebrating straight pride?"

    There's no way you can tell me or anyone else what they can or can't be proud of. Think about it for a second. It's bang out of order and it's the exact opposite to the sentiment that allows straight people support gay pride. Or non Muslims support the Muslims celebrating Eid, or anything where people support other people celebrating something about themselves that doesn't apply to them.
    Again, no one is saying that and no one is talking to you about hypothetical, inclusive, and loving Straight Pride marches. Because that's all they are, hypotheticals. The real life ones, like in the OP are for hatred not love, or being proud.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    I don't see anyone here calling you homophobic for being proud of being straight.

    Plenty have said straight people have nothing to be proud of on this thread and anyone celebrating it is doing it for hateful reasons (so homophobia).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,351 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Probably because I've not said I was.

    I'm saying that a lot of posters on here have said that straight pride marches are born from homophobia or hatred. Therefore, if I was to organise one, it wouldn't be too far fetched that there would be counter protests levelling the same accusations at me.

    Yeh, unfortunately that's probably true.

    The term "Straight Pride" has been tainted now by all those who've used it for everything other than actual Straight Pride.
    Hobosan wrote: »
    Plenty have said straight people have nothing to be proud of on this thread and anyone celebrating it is doing it for hateful reasons (so homophobia).

    I don't agree that people shouldn't be proud of being straight. I don't see where people said that having a Straight Pride(for the express purpose of promoting your own sexuality) is bad.
    I think there's confusion around the term Straight Pride. When I see that term I think of conservative and religious groups, because they are the only ones who've ever organised a Straight Pride event.


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Where would you like to be? We have a gay head of state, gay marriage is legal, there are equality laws.

    Sure, some people might still balk at the idea of two men or two women having sex, but that's their prerogative. You can't force people to be comfortable with it.




    I have no idea. But if they are, good for them.



    Switch place with "us"? As in the gay hive mind? Sorry buddy, not all gay people think the same.

    And I think you'll find almost everything you mentioned is illegal and you are protected by law if you encounter such situations.

    So if you feel attacked every day that isn't pride day, then I feel sorry for you. But thankfully most gay people don't share that same experience.

    In Ireland Yes but other countries aren't so fortunate. Bit of naivety to think that celebrating pride in Ireland is just about Ireland. It's about everywhere. Countries do kill and torture LGBT people which have little to no protection /laws for the LGBT community.
    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    CosmicFool wrote:
    In Ireland Yes but other countries aren't so fortunate. Bit of naivety to think that celebrating pride in Ireland is just about Ireland. It's about everywhere. Countries do kill and torture LGBT people which have little to no protection /laws for the LGBT community. .

    Oh so when you said "we aren't quite there yet, as a society" you were talking about the middle east?

    I assumed you meant Ireland because you said "we aren't quite there yet,as a society.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 391 ✭✭99problems1


    Protesting a gay pride event means you're anti gay.

    Yet protesting a straight pride event means you're pro LGBT? Eh how? If you protest a straight pride event, you are anti straight people. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Oh so when you said "we aren't quite there yet, as a society" you were talking about the middle east?

    I assumed you meant Ireland because you said "we aren't quite there yet,as a society.

    You're just trolling now. My word choice probably wasn't the best, you probably knew that but just picking holes where you can. Good day.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Protesting a gay pride event means you're anti gay.

    Yet protesting a straight pride event means you're pro LGBT? Eh how? If you protest a straight pride event, you are anti straight people. :mad:

    Well you're over simplifying things there a good deal. I don't think that people would have issues with straight pride parades where the message is about love and inclusivity, as a previous poster said. However the issue is that, to put it mildly, there is usually more than a whiff of homophobia in the aims and messages of most straight pride events to date, particularly in the one mentioned in the OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    CosmicFool wrote:
    You're just trolling now. My word choice probably wasn't the best, you probably knew that but just picking holes where you can. Good day.

    That's unfair. I replied in good faith and showed how progressive Ireland was and how being gay in Ireland is not a hardship due to protections afforded to members of the community.

    You then moved the goalposts to say "well yeah, but what about the people getting killed" which was a departure from our conversation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 391 ✭✭99problems1


    Well you're over simplifying things there a good deal. I don't think that people would have issues with straight pride parades where the message is about love and inclusivity, as a previous poster said. However the issue is that, to put it mildly, there is usually more than a whiff of homophobia in the aims and messages of most straight pride events to date, particularly in the one mentioned in the OP.

    The issue is that people don't want equality.

    Gay people in Ireland are equal. So what are they marching about?

    Is it because they didn't used to be equal? It's like the orange order marching over events hundreds of years ago.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    The reason there is straight pride is that people are totally fu5ked up with gay this or that.
    Our state broadcaster even sponsored gay week or month or however long it went on. My licence fee went towards that sh×te.


  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭jay1988


    The reason there is straight pride is that people are totally fu5ked up with gay this or that.
    Our state broadcaster even sponsored gay week or month or however long it went on. My licence fee went towards that sh×te.

    Well you're a stunning advertisement for straight pride anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭oLoonatic


    The reason there is straight pride is that people are totally fu5ked up with gay this or that.
    Our state broadcaster even sponsored gay week or month or however long it went on. My licence fee went towards that sh×te.

    did you come here in a delorean??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    oLoonatic wrote: »
    did you come here in a delorean??

    Nice car but wasn't very reliable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Again, no one is saying that and no one is talking to you about hypothetical, inclusive, and loving Straight Pride marches. Because that's all they are, hypotheticals. The real life ones, like in the OP are for hatred not love, or being proud.

    There are posters saying there's no point to straight pride and all the straight pride events are homophobic. Those are 2 separate points.

    If people are homophobic then that's the problem, not someone being proud of being straight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    jay1988 wrote: »
    Well you're a stunning advertisement for straight pride anyway.

    No they aren't and it's about as clever as me finding an example of a gobshyte who's gay and saying they're a stunning advertisement for gay pride.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Anyone asking for straight pride has exactly the opposite problem. Straight insecurity.
    They aren’t all closet cases but a vast amount of them actually are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Anyone asking for straight pride has exactly the opposite problem. Straight insecurity. They aren’t all closet cases but a vast amount of them actually are.

    Yeah and all gays who have issue with straight pride are secretly straight.

    Ridiculous.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Ironicname wrote: »
    Yeah and all gays who have issue with straight pride are secretly straight.

    Ridiculous.

    I’d love a clear cogent well thought argument from anyone about why they need a straight pride parade. Even one. Ive yet to hear one. If they had any sense of security gay pride wouldn’t bother them at all. Obviously much deeper personal issues afoot.
    What would this straight pride parade entail? That’s just gas to even envision.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Mod Note: The rules are there for a reason. Please read them next time before posting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    I’d love a clear cogent well thought argument from anyone about why they need a straight pride parade. Even one. Ive yet to hear one. If they had any sense of security gay pride wouldn’t bother them at all. Obviously much deeper personal issues afoot.
    What would this straight pride parade entail? That’s just gas to even envision.

    Couldn't you turn that conversation around but replace gay with straight?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Couldn't you turn that conversation around but replace gay with straight?

    There’s people in Ireland still encountering homophobic abuse and attack’s every day.
    There’s countries in the world where it is still completely illegal and gay people killed to being gay.
    The point of pride or on of them is to confront that and vanquish it everywhere it is.
    We’re all of us the same none better than any other of us regardless what way we are.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    On the other hand we have "bent" people ( opposite of straight) telling the world they are bent and telling everyone who isn't bent that they should accept being bent as normal, otherwise they have a phobia of people.

    Tatranska, as I'm sure you're well aware, straight is not a pejorative term for a heterosexual however bent is a derogatory term for a gay man. I suggest you do not use it again in this forum.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    And there you have it ..... Tolerance is only tolerated if you agree with gay agenda...and it is an agenda!

    And what is that agenda, Zachariah Chilly Mulberry?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    And what is that agenda, tatranska?

    Interior design and small sweet baked goods.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Tatranska, as I'm sure you're well aware, straight is not a pejorative term for a heterosexual however bent is a derogatory term for a gay man. I suggest you do not use it again in this forum.

    So please do enlighten me on the reasoning for calling someone "straight".

    Every day is a school day.

    For the record..I'm not arguing about a mod instruction..just asking an honest question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So if they aren't about straight pride then why would you bother dismissing straight pride. You're going after something you claim they don't even believe.

    If they behave like homophobes then go after them for that behaviour.

    But that still doesn't address why some people are claim pride is dependent on having experienced discrimination. I don't see discrimination as the only path to pride.

    You're completely missing the point. Straight pride is basically like a white supremacy march. It is nothing to do with pride in heterosexuality and everything to do with homophobia and transphobia.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There are posters saying there's no point to straight pride and all the straight pride events are homophobic. Those are 2 separate points.

    If people are homophobic then that's the problem, not someone being proud of being straight.

    Because straight pride is nothing to do with being proud of being straight

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    So please do enlighten me on the reasoning for calling someone "straight".

    Every day is a school day.

    You don't need this explained to you. In the early 20th century "straight" began to be used as a colloquialism for behaviour which was conventional, mainstream or socially acceptable, and it still retains this meaning. By extension it came to be used to describe heterosexual people, as opposed to gay people - who were not considered conventional, mainstream or socially acceptable.

    You know full well it is not a perjorative term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    So please do enlighten me on the reasoning for calling someone "straight".

    Every day is a school day.

    You don't need this explained to you. In the early 20th century "straight" began to be used as a colloquialism for behaviour which was conventional, mainstream or socially acceptable, and it still retains this meaning. By extension it came to be used to describe heterosexual people, as opposed to gay people - who were not considered conventional, mainstream or socially acceptable.

    You know full well it is not a perjorative term.
    I wish people would stop telling me what I know!!
    Thanks for the clarification.


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    So please do enlighten me on the reasoning for calling someone "straight".

    Every day is a school day.

    For the record..I'm not arguing about a mod instruction..just asking an honest question.

    Why don't you like being called Straight? You've actually asked this question in another thread too so just wondering?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    CosmicFool wrote: »
    Why don't you like being called Straight? You've actually asked this question in another thread too so just wondering?

    I wondered why I was being called straight but my sexuality isn't what defines me.
    As for not being perjorative( had to look it up) , it really depends on whose doing the naming and why. It can be as demeaning as anything else.

    Why is it when one says homosexuality isn't normal that one is defined as a homophobe ( another perjorative term). I can separate the act from the person quiet easily and I don't have a phobia about people, neither do I hate homosexuals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭CosmicFool


    I wondered why I was being called straight but my sexuality isn't what defines me.
    As for not being perjorative( had to look it up) , it really depends on whose doing the naming and why. It can be as demeaning as anything else.

    Why is it when one says homosexuality isn't normal that one is defined as a homophobe ( another perjorative term). I can separate the act from the person quiet easily and I don't have a phobia about people, neither do I hate homosexuals.


    Why have you such an issue with LGBT people? You say you dont hate homosexuals but yet you keep posting in LGBT related threads asking questions that are clearly to provoke people with you're very cleverly crafted words.

    You're on here now trying to play the victim for what? Being called straight? Please.

    Why do you feel being called Straight is the same as what you referred to gay people earlier( I'm not repeating that word for obvious reasons)?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    I wondered why I was being called straight but my sexuality isn't what defines me.
    As for not being perjorative( had to look it up) , it really depends on whose doing the naming and why. It can be as demeaning as anything else.

    Why is it when one says homosexuality isn't normal that one is defined as a homophobe ( another perjorative term). I can separate the act from the person quiet easily and I don't have a phobia about people, neither do I hate homosexuals.

    Your sexuality is not what defines you but your sexuality can be defined by one word or another - if you're a heterosexual person, then in ordinary vernacular English, you're straight. Human beings are taxonomic animals - we feel a need to classify things because that's how we make sense of the world, we categorise everything and apply words to things to differentiate them from one another. Your sexuality might not define you and you might not consider it to be a part of your identity, but for the purposes of a conversation about sexual orientation, you have a classification like everyone else. If you didn't, it would be necessary to invent one.

    I would disagree that it can be demeaning, I cannot think of a context or situation where calling someone "straight" would demean them, partially because being straight has never been seen as bad thing by any society. The opposite is true for other sexual orientations, however.

    The problem is that the word normal carries a certain value - if you say that someone isn't normal, it's implicit that you consider them to be abnormal, that there is something wrong with them or unacceptable about them. Normal does not just mean usual or conventional.
    There is a difference between saying that gay people aren't "normal" and saying that gay people are not as common as straight people, for instance. Red hair is the most uncommon hair colour, but no one would say red hair is not normal. People with red hair are normal, and they are not as common as people with black hair.

    This is why people would think of you as being homophobic if you say that homosexuality isn't normal, because it illustrates a certain-closed mindedness. For most of the modern era, heterosexuality was the only legitimate sexuality - it is an "organised" sexuality. A huge number of social interactions and rituals were and are organised around it. Marriage was open only to couples of the opposite sex, child-rearing the exclusive remit of a mother and a father. There is a thread right now in After Hours which has been about how lots of men find the idea of two men kissing repulsive, for the last 4 pages or so. Boys kissed girls back in the day. That's what kissing was about. It was for straight people.

    So when you say that homosexuality isn't normal, it indicates (or tends to indicate) that you don't view same-sex relationships or attractions as legitimate.
    And you can't really separate the "act" from the person. It's too big a part of them even if it doesn't define them. The doer came before the deed, they had to.

    Personally I think the word homophobia is a poor descriptor for a dislike of homosexuality or a lack of acceptance of it but it's too late to change that now. But just as you might not like being labelled a homophobe (and I'm not saying you are btw), LGBT people don't particularly like being told they're not normal, because there's nothing wrong with us.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    CosmicFool wrote: »
    Why have you such an issue with LGBT people? You say you dont hate homosexuals but yet you keep posting in LGBT related threads asking questions that are clearly to provoke people with you're very cleverly crafted words.

    You're on here now trying to play the victim for what? Being called straight? Please.

    Why do you feel being called Straight is the same as what you referred to gay people earlier( I'm not repeating that word for obvious reasons)?

    Come back to me when you’ve been beaten up by a load of gays for being not like them.
    Haven’t heard of any straight bashings done by gay people.
    Gay people face this and still get beaten daily in this country.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    This is why people would think of you as being homophobic if you say that homosexuality isn't normal, because it illustrates a certain-closed mindedness. For most of the modern era, heterosexuality was the only legitimate sexuality - it is an "organised" sexuality. A huge number of social interactions and rituals were and are organised around it. Marriage was open only to couples of the opposite sex, child-rearing the exclusive remit of a mother and a father. There is a thread right now in After Hours which has been about how lots of men find the idea of two men kissing repulsive, for the last 4 pages or so. Boys kissed girls back in the day. That's what kissing was about. It was for straight people.

    And come to think of it, this is why a straight pride parade should rub you up the wrong way. There is something very triumphalist and supremacist about having a straight pride parade in a world already designed for and catered to the convenience and comfort of straight people. Just like a white pride [white power] parade in a country where white people hold a dominant and pre-eminent position in society, such as the US. Or a Loyalist parade/Orange Order march in Northern Ireland.
    It should leave a very bad taste in your mouth.


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