Daughter wants braces and says everyone gets them (help a foreigner in Ireland!)

Foreigndad · 04-02-2021 2:08am #1

My daughter (she is now 15) and I moved to Ireland two years ago (I got a job and she came with).

According to her her friends and the girls in her class no matter if they otherwise are into their looks or not either have straight teeth naturally, have braces or used to have braces. And that is the thing in Ireland according to her, girls are expected to have straight teeth and she want hers straight too.

Had a quick chat with a colleague who said braces exploded during the Tiger days...

This is a bit new to me since we are Scandinavians and there it is more like you get braces if you have dental issues, not very common to get them for astetic reasons (if it isn't very bad which it certainly isn't for my daughter).

Is my daughter right here? Is it normal for parents in Ireland to get their kids/(daughters) braces for astetic reasons?

04-02-2021 2:20am

If the dentist says you need them, you get them.

If your teeth aren't straight, you can get them.

Does she realise the grief they come with? I'm betting after having them for a few weeks she will running back to have them removed

Padre_Pio · 04-02-2021 2:25am

Get them now while she's young.

Nothing quite like straight teeth. I regret not wearing my retainer.

poisonated · 04-02-2021 2:51am

I hated my braces. If she doesn’t need them, there’s no good reason to get them.

LegacyUser · 04-02-2021 2:59am

Check in with a dentist - she should be seeing a dentist every few months anyway. If a dentist says braces are needed, they're needed. Otherwise, it's a lot of work (hers and yours) and money (yours) for questionable benefit.

Having said that, my son had real issues, and had to have work done at about 14 to 15. The issues he had were bad enough for his treatment to be available free. It involved a couple of surgical extractions and wearing braces for ages, and it worked. He still wears a retainer.

But one added effect was that it also had a noticeable positive cosmetic effect on him, which in turn lifted his self-confidence and helped him in a lot of ways. Looking back, if his condition had been slightly less serious it would not have been available free and could have cost us several thousand euro to get it done privately. But to be honest - and I hate to admit this - it would have been worth every penny.

Foreigndad · 04-02-2021 3:07am

poisonated wrote: »

I hated my braces. If she doesn’t need them, there’s no good reason to get them.

Home come you got them? Did you need them or did you get them because everyone else did?

Just curious, trying to understand what "people in Ireland" do

Oops! · 04-02-2021 3:09am

People in Ireland these days seem to think it's cool to "act like your American".

04-02-2021 3:25am

I've never heard of anyone getting braces for their children, unless advised by their dentist that there was a need for them.

ozmo · 04-02-2021 3:31am

If the teeth are not straight and they are not happy with it - then yes generally they get them. You wear them for a year or so.

Its very expensive - 3000 to 4000 euros.

You can get if free but the waiting list is several years...

04-02-2021 3:31am

Foreigndad wrote: »

Home come you got them? Did you need them or did you get them because everyone else did?

Just curious, trying to understand what "people in Ireland" do

Something is getting worse, I really am shaking my head right now,

You get them because you need them end of, any situation where a medical professional advises to get braces when they aren't needed, Id consider a charlatan.
It sounds like the advice from the person you replied to, had them for reason of need, that is what braces are for.
Worst case, get her an appointment with an Orthodontist and see what they say, discuss in advance a want for them only if required, not for cosmetic reasons.
Honestly, I'd say anyone should know by looking are they needed or not.
At one point I saw a program, from the US where people were avoiding the perfect look and were going for the natural look.
It's possible some parents have allowed themselves to fall victim to begging for braces or maybe those kids really needed them, your daughter doesn't know what an Orthodontist told those parents/children.

I had train tracks as young teen and they were painful a lot of the time, and when they tightened them up, along with elastic bands you had to wear, and I believe braces are more pleasant now than when I had them, they were not a fashion statement then and they are not intended as a fashion statement now, regardless of what anyone says, they may appear less intrusive and a more pleasant look, but thats all, because it used to be a thing were they were the opposite of fashionable, to limit the slagging, Id say they fancied them up and maybe have made them more discreet. Like all fashions, they fall out of favour, if she has metal bases glued onto her teeth, and metal wire, she wouldnt have a choice but to stick to it, but if its anything temporary my bet is they wont stick it out. I had mine because my mother knew my teeth were bad and I'm glad I got them, because of need.

If you have a good few thousand to throw away, by all means, otherwise grow a pair and tell her to cop on if it is obvious she doesn't need them, tell her to pay for it in a few years when she can do so herself, you can get braces at any age.
I doubt very much anyone that doesn't need them will be getting them for free, but by the time comes around from a waiting list, she will probably have changed her mind or come to her senses, because she will not get them for fashionable purposes that way.

wotzgoingon · 04-02-2021 3:33am

I don't have straight teeth and it never bothered me but I'm a male getting on into his late 30's but it never bothered me that I didn't have straight teeth as a teenager but I viewed braces totally different than your daughter does. Geeks or nerds wore bracers was my opinion of them. I left school early and worked on building sites for years just to give a reference of the type of teenager I was.

Caranica · 04-02-2021 3:50am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Get them now while she's young.

Nothing quite like straight teeth. I regret not wearing my retainer.

My dentist said the exact opposite. Your jaw keeps growing until you're 30.

One of my best friends had braces as a teen and had to get them again in her 30s, yes she probably didn't wear her retainer as much as she should have but she definitely needed them again.

ozmo · 04-02-2021 3:50am

1874 wrote: »

Something is getting worse, I really am shaking my head right now,

You get them because you need them end of, any situation where a medical professional advises to get braces when they aren't needed, Id consider a charlatan.

I think some may be reading the ops email wrong? He is not saying she has straight teeth and wants braces - hes saying they dont look too bad - but she would like the ascetics of perfectly straight teeth (not the ascetics of having braces!). But yes - doctor should make the call.

"not very common to get them for astetic reasons (if it isn't very bad which it certainly isn't for my daughter)."

ozmo · 04-02-2021 3:53am

Oh - there is a new version out now I heard some getting - its more like a transparent gum shield - they send you a new, slightly smaller, one every few weeks.
Its even more expensive, but supposedly more comfortable and not as visible.

Shelli2 · 04-02-2021 3:55am

I had mildly crooked teeth, but it bothered me and I rarely smiled until I got them fixed when I was 28.
However, I am glad I waited because if I got them young when my wisdom teeth came in I would have had to get them again anyway.

They are expensive, and painful and bloody awful to wear for the few years you have them, but definitely worth it in my opinion.
But wait until wisdom teeth settle, usually early twenties.

pwurple · 04-02-2021 4:31am

It depends where you live and what her peer group is.

There is a fashion in certain groups for teeth that look like dentures or veneers. To the extent that they look for infills in the gaps between teeth. My cousins have had that done. That is definitely something some irish people do at the moment.

In my humble opinion it is something they will regret. (Remember the trend to laser off your eyebrows and tattoo on a thin line ?)

Outside that trend, no, it's not usual.

The children I know with braces have something like a crossbite or significant issue that needs to be corrected.

lomb · 04-02-2021 4:43am

I'm a dentist (20y) my brother does braces I fix teeth. There is no medical need for braces. They are purely cosmetic. Its true that teeth move easier when your younger as the bone is softer so would be less painful and easier to fix in teens if desired. Young people are also more flexible mentally and can accept the work needed to wear them eaier.When I was young 25 years ago no one got braces as no one could afford them. It was around 10 grand in today's money. I actually needed them as did my brother for perfection and we never got them due to cost. I or my brother could get them today for free or cheap (Invisalign etc)and neither bother. If I was a parent today personally I wouldn't bother unless they were bad( judged by the average reasonable person) at age 14+. It takes that long for things to shake out. Good luck.

04-02-2021 4:46am

ozmo wrote: »

Oh - there is a new version out now I heard some getting - its more like a transparent gum shield - they send you a new, slightly smaller, one every few weeks.
Its even more expensive, but supposedly more comfortable and not as visible.

What it sounds to me like, is the OPs daughter may not have perfect teeth that rarely exist naturally, it doesnt sound like she need braces, she wants them as a fashion statement, from what Ive read here.
Only an Orthodontist can give professional advice I believe, but it does not sound like the OPs daughter wants an item that is discreet, they want it to be noticeable, probably not as much as permanent bases and wire, so something that you can take in and out, there are wire type retainers I believe.
imo anything temporary that relies on the person committing to putting them on and wearing them, because there may still be some discomfort, when its not absolutely necessary, runs the risk of them losing interest.
Its not a wishy washy thing, you need to stick with it, so either it is genuinely needed or it is not.

If the daughter had a tooth or teeth out of place and said she was genuinely embarrassed, I'd definitely consider it, but with advice from a professional, even if thats the case, it may be worth waiting.
From what I read here, it boils down to her friends are getting them, so she wants them.

04-02-2021 4:56am

lomb wrote: »

I'm a dentist (20y) my brother does braces I fix teeth. There is no medical need for braces. They are purely cosmetic. Its true that teeth move easier when your younger as the bone is softer so would be less painful and easier to fix in teens if desired. Young people are also more flexible mentally and can accept the work needed to wear them eaier.When I was young 25 years ago no one got braces as no one could afford them. It was around 10 grand in today's money. I actually needed them as did my brother for perfection and we never got them due to cost. If I was a parent today personally I wouldn't bother unless they were bad( judged by the average reasonable person) at age 14+. It takes that long for things to shake out. Good luck.

As you are saying you are dentist, thats some post, astonishing, 25 years ago was 1995 ish, I dont think what you are saying is correct, I was wearing my braces in 1990, I was years waiting on a list to get them, my teeth were crushed up and while you say it's not a medical necessity, it is not entirely, the position of peoples teeth can affect a lot of things. I was not the only person with braces, but they were rare

Thankfully my mother who isnt a dentist knew more than to let a dentist take out my canine teeth to straighten up some serious overcrowding, which The Orthodontists I visited in the dental school were appalled at.
You might be best to leave the advice to an Orthodontist as it sounds like you are a bit clueless for a professional, you are giving very bad advice. Better let your brother do that maybe?

It is very painful and it depends on the situation, case by case Id say.
I dont think you can say a child is more mentally prepared for them or not, thats like saying an adult isnt and Id say it is more than cosmetic when you have real problems, so they are not entirely purely cosmetic.

lomb · 04-02-2021 5:15am

Sorry my times are wrong . So I was a teen in 1990. The price then is the price now maybe a little less then and a house then was 40 grand and the same house now is 300 grand. Look it's like a Picasso or Monet. Its an art. There are books that could fill your house written on it, it doesn't mean you have to do it just like Monet didn't have to paint and you dont have to buy a Monet if you don't want to or can't afford to. You can do it if you like its not essential. Its a nice gift to give a child if they need them something to remember you by in years to come. That's all I can say.
Incidentally I certainly am not clueless I've treated 15000 patients over 20 years and seen it all. This isn't open heart surgery or cancer treatment. There isn't any medical reason for braces and that's the conclusion even if you read the 10000 textbooks and hundreds of thousands of research articles or whatever written on it.
There is a medical reason to remove infected teeth or wisdom teeth ie you could die etc. Braces can help relieve crowding allowing lower wisdoms to come up safely in some cases. This avoids needing to remove them which if it goes wrong can leave a numb lip or tongue saving a say .5% risk.

04-02-2021 5:27am

lomb wrote: »

Sorry my times are wrong . So I was a teen in 1990. Look it's like a Picasso or Monet. Its an art. There are books that could fill your house written on it, it doesn't mean you have to do it just like Monet didn't have to paint. You can do it if you like its not essential. Its a nice gift to give a child if they need them something to remember you by in years to come. That's all I can say.
Incidentally I certainly am not clueless I've treated 15000 patients over 20 years and seen it all. This isn't open heart surgery or cancer treatment. There isn't any medical reason for braces and that's the conclusion even if you read the 10000 textbooks and hundreds of thousands of research articles or whatever written on it.
There is a medical reason to remove infected teeth or wisdom teeth ie you could die etc. Braces can help relieve crowding allowing lower wisdoms to come up safely in some cases. This avoids needing to remove them which if it goes wrong can leave a numb lip or tongue saving a say .5% risk.

I think that previous post was poor advice, it probably sounds harsh, I just cant be sure if you are a dentist, anyone could say anything here, Im not saying you arent, but I could say Im an astronaut, anyway Im not disputing your qualifications and Im sure youve treated many a patient well, and its great to know its what you say it is, Im trying to steer my son to be a dentist, but he insisting on being an architect, but he's only 8, so I have time. I think there are times it is necessary and it may not be a medical thing for reasons other than it might cause an infection and death, but I also know someone that got teeth done as an adult and there were issues of pain.
In the case of the OP, it sounds like his daughter wants them for a fashion statement from everything said, I suggest they see an Orthodontist.

lomb · 04-02-2021 5:47am

I applaud you for wanting your child to be a dentist. Its a great career and if you do it it will be a more interesting path than most probably any other but I stand by what I say. Orthodontics is an art, dentistry is a medical need. Tooth decay and gum disease leads to infection which can lead to illness and death . Good luck with your kid I hope they grow up to do what they love so no day ever feels like work.

Foreigndad · 04-02-2021 9:59am

Thanks for all the replies! From what most people describes the rationale for braces here and home seems the same.

Only thing confusing is A: What my daughter says (she's even showed me pictures of girls in her class on social media) and B: I see a lot more teenagers with braces here than home which makes me feel like it is a lot more common here...

She insists it is because she wants the outcome both for looks and for better oral health in the future but that since everyone has them now it is a good time instead of having them in college or as an adult.

Will give it a thought, not sure I should pay for it just because she says everyone else has them. On the other hand I don't want to be the one that kept her with crooked teeth either (in my opinion her teeth are nice though!).

KaneToad · 04-02-2021 10:11am

It's purely a fashion/trend thing. If you were living elsewhere, it would be a different trend:

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/stories-44364278

weldoninhio · 04-02-2021 10:17am

lomb wrote: »

I'm a dentist (20y) my brother does braces I fix teeth. There is no medical need for braces. They are purely cosmetic. Its true that teeth move easier when your younger as the bone is softer so would be less painful and easier to fix in teens if desired. Young people are also more flexible mentally and can accept the work needed to wear them eaier.When I was young 25 years ago no one got braces as no one could afford them. It was around 10 grand in today's money. I actually needed them as did my brother for perfection and we never got them due to cost. I or my brother could get them today for free or cheap (Invisalign etc)and neither bother. If I was a parent today personally I wouldn't bother unless they were bad( judged by the average reasonable person) at age 14+. It takes that long for things to shake out. Good luck.

25 years ago, I got braces on the medical card. My pallette is too small for all of my teeth, so I had a tooth growing out of the roof of my mouth and another growing over two other teeth. Once they were removed, I needed braces to realign my other teeth.

virginmediapls · 04-02-2021 10:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never heard of anyone getting braces for their children, unless advised by their dentist that there was a need for them.

You havent spoke to many people in the last 20yrs then.

virginmediapls · 04-02-2021 10:22am

Foreigndad wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies! From what most people describes the rationale for braces here and home seems the same.

Only thing confusing is A: What my daughter says (she's even showed me pictures of girls in her class on social media) and B: I see a lot more teenagers with braces here than home which makes me feel like it is a lot more common here...

She insists it is because she wants the outcome both for looks and for better oral health in the future but that since everyone has them now it is a good time instead of having them in college or as an adult.

Will give it a thought, not sure I should pay for it just because she says everyone else has them. On the other hand I don't want to be the one that kept her with crooked teeth either (in my opinion her teeth are nice though!).

The majority of Irish kids these days tend to get braces. Boards.ie tends to lean towards people who are older than 50 or 60 and fairly out of touch when it comes to more recent phenomena. Boards.ie also has a weird obsession with "not being American" which can be seen in this thread, where people actually think that getting straight teeth is "trying to become more American".

Give it some thought and decide what's best for you and your family, only you can decide that - but pay no attention to the people on here when it comes to issues like this.

Padre_Pio · 04-02-2021 10:26am

Oops! wrote: »

People in Ireland these days seem to think it's cool to "act like your American".

I got braces for cosmetic reasons when I was 15.
My brother got the same.
That was nearly 20 years ago.

Both of us had fairly crooked teeth. Mine have gone back slightly, because I was an idiot and didn't wear my retainer
Bro's teeth are perfect.

Hate to say it, but we live in a very superficial time. Better looking people have easier lives.
Your teeth are the most prominent feature on your face and you have control over how they look.

Totally up to you, but if I had kids and they had crooked teeth, I'd get them fixed while they were in their teens. Get it out of the way.

Treppen · 04-02-2021 10:31am

Caranica wrote: »

My dentist said the exact opposite. Your jaw keeps growing until you're 30.

One of my best friends had braces as a teen and had to get them again in her 30s, yes she probably didn't wear her retainer as much as she should have but she definitely needed them again.

I wore braces for 5 years in my teens. Still crooked as **** on the bottom, but straight on the top, although with the overcrowding on the bottom I don't think braces would have worked anyway.

A friend with the exact same kind of teeth and overcrowding issue as me didn't bother when she was young but got them done in her 30s had it fixed perfectly.

So ya maybe wait till your older.

Also it might depend on your job, if you're all about meeting business clients and putting on appearances then yes, the friend mentioned above probably had to do it. If you're on the building site and hammering away yourself then probably not.

LegacyUser · 04-02-2021 10:31am

Foreigndad wrote: »

Will give it a thought, not sure I should pay for it just because she says everyone else has them. On the other hand I don't want to be the one that kept her with crooked teeth either (in my opinion her teeth are nice though!).

From a psychological point of view, having imperfect teeth can have very serious issues, even if *you* don't think they're that bad.

As a kid, my teeth weren't the worst out there, and the HSE orthodontist said I that braces would be a waste of time as my palate was narrow. I see now 15+ years later that that was an extremely one dimensional point of view, in the interests of crossing another kid off a waiting list.

Some of my peers with similar issues had palate expanders and braces (which might not have been absolutely medically necessary) privately.

Despite being told that my teeth weren't that bad, it caused enough issue for me personally that at 30 I finally made the decision for myself. Leaving it till I'm older had meant three general anesthesic surgeries to correct the shape and position of my upper and lower jaw. This would have been much easier to do as a child.

I'm not trying to guilt you into paying for something that she may not need, but she might, and the person to tell you that is an orthodontist.

Any good orthodontist, who doesn't need your money will first explain that often the best thing to do is nothing if there are no serious problems, but then lay out all the potential options.

Foreigndad · 04-02-2021 10:33am

virginmediapls wrote: »

The majority of Irish kids these days tend to get braces.

Interesting to get your perspective. Would you say that what my daughter describes on an overall level is fairly accurate then (i.e "normal girls" get braces if teeth aren't straight)?

Daughter wants braces and says everyone gets them (help a foreigner in Ireland!)

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