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Dublin Metro South vs Luas

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    #32
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I'm still cross that they are upgrading a major public transport corridor on the southside (capacity issues aside) when there are vast swathes of Dublin with NO decent public transport.

    The Metro North (to call it that) part of this would be welcome, but I'm still against this, its plain unfair. Serve a different region of the southside with this, maybe (and this is just random) go south to say Terenure then head over to Dun Laoighre with it instead and then swing south, to Cherrywood. This would link DART and Luas and Metro. Now, maybe my route is not quick enough as its a big S shape, but something like that surely would serve more people.


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    #33
    jhenno78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I'm still cross that they are upgrading a major public transport corridor on the southside (capacity issues aside) when there are vast swathes of Dublin with NO decent public transport.
    It isn't just about the green line itself, it's needed to make the northern part work - the trains need somewhere to go.

    But should metro go to other parts of the city too? Absolutely
    This bit is going on top of a 150 year old rail corridor with existing track - it's low-hanging fruit. The money this will take is a tiny drop in the bucket of what it would cost to build anythings else.


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    #34
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I'm still cross that they are upgrading a major public transport corridor on the southside (capacity issues aside) when there are vast swathes of Dublin with NO decent public transport.
    More areas should get better transport, agreed.

    The problem with the Green line at the moment is vast amounts of high density developments along the line have been approved to be built, and many have been approved because the planners believed the line would be upgraded. It would cost a relatively small amount to upgrade this corridor to take lots more people, and the line was built with this upgrade in mind, but now it's stopped/on hold because of the objections of a small number of people.


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    #35
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    hmmm wrote: »
    More areas should get better transport, agreed.

    The problem with the Green line at the moment is vast amounts of high density developments along the line have been approved to be built, and many have been approved because the planners believed the line would be upgraded. It would cost a relatively small amount to upgrade this corridor to take lots more people, and the line was built with this upgrade in mind, but now it's stopped/on hold because of the objections of a small number of people.

    That's why I suggested double decker trams, so the service can take more people, and still run as far south as Brides Glen. The plan to upgrade Charlemont - Sandyford to metro standard was understandable, and my only problem with it was that it creates a need to change trams to get from anywhere south of Sandyford to anywhere north of it. It would however allow direct journeys from anywhere between Sandyford and Charlemont to the airport and beyond, so once it would be in place it wouldn't be more or less convenient regarding direct journey options.


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    #36
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Well if the proposed wrecking of the Green Luas line has been axed I'm delighted.

    If the Green Luas line had been opened as a DART line through to Bray from the outset it would have been best. A Luas tram from outside Harcourt Street station into the centre would have been logical too but we are where we are and the Luas Green line should be left as is. Where this leaves the additional traffic from Cherrywood/Loughlinstown is anybody's guess but if there had been proper planning none of this mess need have happened.

    Proper planning ? It was built to be upgrade. It’s at capacity and needs to get the upgrade


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    #37
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    ohographite wrote: »
    my only problem with it was that it creates a need to change trams to get from anywhere south of Sandyford to anywhere north of it.
    I can understand people liking they can get on and stay on, and I'd love to see a metro the length of the line, but it's perfectly normal in any transport system to have feeder lines and interchanges.

    You'd want to be very short-sighted to oppose Metro because it might mean you have to get out of your seat and change at Sandyford. It won't be very long before the Green line effectively becomes unusable - I don't personally believe it will even take as long as 2027 for capacity to be reached, there is a lot of development taking place along the far end of the line and it's already pretty packed at rush hour.

    By the time it reaches capacity and people start screaming for an upgrade, it will be another 4 years of planning and another couple of years to build. Anyone who still expects to be using the line in 5-10 years time need to think about this now.


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    #38
    LeChienMefiant
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    1. The disruption to the line could have been minimal. The line was already built to near metro standard
    2. The cost was estimated as low as fifty million compared to billions for the south west route.
    3. The detour of 1km is a myth, that's from one side of dunville crossing to the other via ranelagh village. The fatties should walk the few metres across the line. Also 1km in a car is nothing. Cars are for traveling long distances.

    http://data.tii.ie/metrolink/alignment-options-study/study-3/metrolink-green-line-metro-upgrade-line-b.pdf


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    #39
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »
    Couldn't Luas trains simply be modified in this fashion?

    No, basically. Turning radii, high platforms being unsuitable on street, length, automation not possible with crossing traffic.


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    #40
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    The cancellation of the metro would surely put any green line extension to Bray in doubt as the green line is already at capacity now and extending it to Bray would create more capacity issues. I think this is unfair on Bray residents who are now deprived of a link to Cherrywood, Sandyford or Dundrum not currently fulfilled by the DART or bus as there's already significant traffic issues with people travelling from North Wicklow towards Sandyford which the Luas would've fulfilled.

    It would be illogical to it now with the way the green line is but a Sandyford to Bray stretch would make a lot of sense in my mind.


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    #41
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    A lot of the objectors seemed to be people in their 60s and 70s! No consideration for future generations.


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    #42
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    The cancellation of the metro would surely put any green line extension to Bray in doubt as the green line is already at capacity now and extending it to Bray would create more capacity issues. I think this is unfair on Bray residents who are now deprived of a link to Cherrywood, Sandyford or Dundrum not currently fulfilled by the DART or bus as there's already significant traffic issues with people travelling from North Wicklow towards Sandyford which the Luas would've fulfilled.

    It would be illogical to it now with the way the green line is but a Sandyford to Bray stretch would make a lot of sense in my mind.

    Sure Brays in Wicklow, they are lucky to get Dublin bus or the DART! ;)


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    #43
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    The cancellation of the metro would surely put any green line extension to Bray in doubt
    It would be madness to go ahead with a LUAS extension if we knew it was already (or would be) over capacity.


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    #44
    LeChienMefiant
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    A lot of the objectors seemed to be people in their 60s and 70s! No consideration for future generations.

    It's a pity no one asks the protestors how many of them actually use the Luas.


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    #45
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    hmmm wrote: »
    It would be madness to go ahead with a LUAS extension if we knew it was already (or would be) over capacity.

    Yes and another reason why the green line should be upgraded


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    #46
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    LeChienMefiant wrote: »
    It's a pity no one asks the protestors how many of them actually use the Luas.

    If they do it's all probably off peak. The point is they likely don't see the issues with capacity on the green line.


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    #47
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,839 ✭✭✭daheff


    I have to say that I think the whole plan is cock-eyed. We should be adding a metro in a different location to where the Green line is. Maybe a couple of km to the west or east. Increase the catchment area for public transport. Leave green line alone bar 1 or 2 intersection


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    #48
    LeChienMefiant
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    daheff wrote: »
    I have to say that I think the whole plan is cock-eyed. We should be adding a metro in a different location to where the Green line is. Maybe a couple of km to the west or east. Increase the catchment area for public transport. Leave green line alone bar 1 or 2 intersection
    That will costs billions.


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    #49
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    daheff wrote: »
    I have to say that I think the whole plan is cock-eyed. We should be adding a metro in a different location to where the Green line is. Maybe a couple of km to the west or east. Increase the catchment area for public transport. Leave green line alone bar 1 or 2 intersection

    That's all well and good and certainly other options could be looked for the areas you mention such as new additional Luas lines but it doesn't take from the fact that the Luas green line is running at capacity and needs an upgrade. It's also considerably cheaper to upgrade the green line than build a completely new alignment.


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    #50
    jhenno78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭jhenno78


    daheff wrote: »
    I have to say that I think the whole plan is cock-eyed. We should be adding a metro in a different location to where the Green line is. Maybe a couple of km to the west or east. Increase the catchment area for public transport. Leave green line alone bar 1 or 2 intersection

    It's not an either/or thing - look at some of the other posts here.


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    #51
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    daheff wrote: »
    I have to say that I think the whole plan is cock-eyed. We should be adding a metro in a different location to where the Green line is. Maybe a couple of km to the west or east. Increase the catchment area for public transport. Leave green line alone bar 1 or 2 intersection

    We can’t afford a different metro line and the green line would still need an upgrade anyway.


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    #52
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    daheff wrote: »
    I have to say that I think the whole plan is cock-eyed. We should be adding a metro in a different location to where the Green line is. Maybe a couple of km to the west or east. Increase the catchment area for public transport. Leave green line alone bar 1 or 2 intersection

    It was designed to be upgraded, the cost is minimal.

    If somewhere else needs a metro then build a different line.


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    #53
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Any idea what will happen in 8 years time when the green lane has surpassed capacity?


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    #54
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    how can they ram an entire railway right across London with hardly anyone noticing and yet in Dublin it would involve wrecking countless people's commute?


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    #55
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Any idea what will happen in 8 years time when the green lane has surpassed capacity?

    They will have to do a more expensive upgrade with more people disrupted in pretty much the way it’s meant to happen now.


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    #56
    MaccaTacca
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭MaccaTacca


    ted1 wrote: »
    Sure Brays in Wicklow, they are lucky to get Dublin bus or the DART! ;)

    County Wicklow perhaps, but very much part of the Dublin urban area these days.

    In any other modern European country the likes of Bray, Leixlip and Dunboyne would come under the wider city council / planning etc.


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    #57
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Isambard wrote: »
    how can they ram an entire railway right across London with hardly anyone noticing and yet in Dublin it would involve wrecking countless people's commute?

    Are you referring to the late and over budget crossrail? The main reason is cost crossrail is costing over £17 billion as it's underground throughout the only overground sections being on existing railway lines however we are seeing massive opposition over in the UK to infrastructure projects of significant national importance such as HS2 and the third Heathrow runway.


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    #58
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ohographite wrote: »

    Does anyone think that double-decker trams could work?

    No it's unworkable. Even if they overcome all the infrastructure issues. The increase in dwell time would negate any capacity advantage


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    #59
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    No it's unworkable. Even if they overcome all the infrastructure issues. The increase in dwell time would negate any capacity advantage

    Don't take this as sceptical to what you said, but what infrastructure issues would there be and why would dwell times increase?


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    #60
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    ohographite wrote: »
    Don't take this as sceptical to what you said, but what infrastructure issues would there be and why would dwell times increase?

    Why do you think dwell times wouldn't increase? Do you think the double deck trams would be open at the top so people could jump out? Stairs!!

    ****



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    #61
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    ted1 wrote: »
    It was designed to be upgraded, the cost is minimal.

    If somewhere else needs a metro then build a different line.

    How precisely was the Green line designed to be upgraded?

    ****



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