Calf castration

Jim Simmental · 04-03-2021 9:54pm #1

Hello

As a suckler farmer With cows calving in the spring time, I have never castrated any of my bulls calves before.

However, over the last two years or so, I have found that my early Jan/Feb calves when sold in Oct/Nov weight 400kg plus, are nearly going down in value compared to lighter calves weighing 300 - 350kg.

I am thinking of rubber banding all my bull calves this year, would there be much more of demand for 300 - 350kg bullocks (taking account of reduced growth rates) compared to 300 - 350 kg bull weanlings?

What do most suckler farmer do with their bull calves? I suppose I’m just trying to add something to my output.

PS I’m not interested in using burdizzo as regards to my own health and safety - when they can be done as calves

White Clover · 04-03-2021 10:16pm

Jim Simmental wrote: »

Hello

As a suckler farmer With cows calving in the spring time, I have never castrated any of my bulls calves before.

However, over the last two years or so, I have found that my early Jan/Feb calves when sold in Oct/Nov weight 400kg plus, are nearly going down in value compared to lighter calves weighing 300 - 350kg.

I am thinking of rubber banding all my bull calves this year, would there be much more of demand for 300 - 350kg bullocks (taking account of reduced growth rates) compared to 300 - 350 kg bull weanlings?

What do most suckler farmer do with their bull calves? I suppose I’m just trying to add something to my output.

PS I’m not interested in using burdizzo as regards to my own health and safety - when they can be done as calves

What i have noticed over the last number of years is that the highest price per kilo for bull weanlings is in the 280kg to 350kg bracket. My opinion is that you should sell earlier at these weights.

Albert Johnson · 04-03-2021 10:16pm

Jim Simmental wrote: »

Hello

As a suckler farmer With cows calving in the spring time, I have never castrated any of my bulls calves before.

However, over the last two years or so, I have found that my early Jan/Feb calves when sold in Oct/Nov weight 400kg plus, are nearly going down in value compared to lighter calves weighing 300 - 350kg.

I am thinking of rubber banding all my bull calves this year, would there be much more of demand for 300 - 350kg bullocks (taking account of reduced growth rates) compared to 300 - 350 kg bull weanlings?

What do most suckler farmer do with their bull calves? I suppose I’m just trying to add something to my output.

PS I’m not interested in using burdizzo as regards to my own health and safety - when they can be done as calves

The difference between a bull or a bullock weanling in the autumn is usually negligible imo. It's different in the springtime with the presence of summer grazer's in the market but in the autumn there all going into a shed so being castrated or not isn't as a big an issue. I rarely see any bullocks that were castrated by banding as opposed to the burdizzo, there usually distinctive enough as they've no bag and look more feminine due to the lack of testosterone in early development.

I agree that weanlings over 380kg are harder sold than those in the 280-350kg bracket. The latter is the typical "farmer's" calf and there slower to buy weanlings over 400kg. You'll often see a comparable weanling 100kg heavier struggling to make €100 more than the 300kg odd type.

In short I don't know if banding the calves will make much difference to there weight or saleability come the autumn. Would selling them 6 weeks earlier as full bulls at lighter weights be a solution? Perhaps you could delay breeding by a few weeks this spring to have a younger lighter weanling for autumn 2022.

mr.stonewall · 04-03-2021 10:19pm

Jim Simmental wrote: »

Hello

As a suckler farmer With cows calving in the spring time, I have never castrated any of my bulls calves before.

However, over the last two years or so, I have found that my early Jan/Feb calves when sold in Oct/Nov weight 400kg plus, are nearly going down in value compared to lighter calves weighing 300 - 350kg.

I am thinking of rubber banding all my bull calves this year, would there be much more of demand for 300 - 350kg bullocks (taking account of reduced growth rates) compared to 300 - 350 kg bull weanlings?

What do most suckler farmer do with their bull calves? I suppose I’m just trying to add something to my output.

PS I’m not interested in using burdizzo as regards to my own health and safety - when they can be done as calves

Did it last year for the first time and it was great. Rings put on in the first ,1-3 days when tagging. Now keep the rings and applicator in the tag box. Highly recommended by the vet. No set back in the calves and just kept trying thriving. Sack withered away over a few weeks and fell off at about 4-6 weeks. No selling weanlings but carry everything to beef here.
The safety aspect cannot be under estimated.

Albert Johnson · 04-03-2021 10:36pm

mr.stonewall wrote: »

Did it last year for the first time and it was great. Rings put on in the first ,1-3 days when tagging. Now keep the rings and applicator in the tag box. Highly recommended by the vet. No set back in the calves and just kept trying thriving. Sack withered away over a few weeks and fell off at about 4-6 weeks. No selling weanlings but carry everything to beef here.
The safety aspect cannot be under estimated.

I could see it being a big bonus where weanlings would be carried through to stores or beef. As you've outlined there's no safety or welfare/performance concerns and you'd have to castrate them at some stage anyway. However in most cases I don't think announcing the next bundle of weanlings as being bullocks will make much difference to the selling price as weanlings next November for the OP. Also if there's minimal growth setback with banding as calves then they'll still be circa 400kg at sale time which won't have navigated that issue.

Jim Simmental · 04-03-2021 10:38pm

Interesting views - thanks all

Yeah I suppose Jan born bull calves could be sold as lighter full bulls in Sept or so .... I suppose a 320 kg CHX weanling bull could go to €800 or so then.

Another option might be to ring the earlier born calves and sell lighter lighter April born calves in Oct / Nov when I’m out of grass.

Thanks Mr. Stonewall for the info on the rubber bands.

mr.stonewall · 04-03-2021 11:19pm

Jim Simmental wrote: »

Interesting views - thanks all

Yeah I suppose Jan born bull calves could be sold as lighter full bulls in Sept or so .... I suppose a 320 kg CHX weanling bull could go to €800 or so then.

Another option might be to ring the earlier born calves and sell lighter lighter April born calves in Oct / Nov when I’m out of grass.

Thanks Mr. Stonewall for the info on the rubber bands.

The set back on stock is can be big when castrating at a later stage. Saw it with bucket feeds that were squeezed last autumn. Weighted them before and 6 weeks later at housing. The bulls had stalled on weight gain while the heifers kept tipping along. This would be amplified with higher weight.

grassroot1 · 05-03-2021 3:01pm

My vet recomended doing them as calves when dehorning with a lamb burdizzo.
Castration would help with not having weanling heifers incalf too

kollegeknight · 05-03-2021 3:28pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

My vet recomended doing them as calves when dehorning with a lamb burdizzo.
Castration would help with not having weanling heifers incalf too

And does the breed make a difference?

We used sell the best as bulls and castrate the poorer ones we would be keeping after they were weaned.

funkey_monkey · 06-03-2021 9:27pm

Castrated some strong 8mth bulls here recently.
They were on the verge of needing cut out as the cord were getting thick which would have meant they would need to go out of shed into field for a while to heal.

I have read some reports and studied showing negligible difference in weight gain when castration occurs.
When young they don't need as much medicines older ones so logic would be that it is easier on them to castrate at that young age.
We sold 8mth builds last year and done less well than those with Bullocks (also factoring in breed differences etc).
I was told on another thread here that when going out to grass the buyers want them castrated for less handling problems. So on that advice I got them done. Vet done them with the burdizzos.

Dunedin · 06-03-2021 9:52pm

mr.stonewall wrote: »

Did it last year for the first time and it was great. Rings put on in the first ,1-3 days when tagging. Now keep the rings and applicator in the tag box. Highly recommended by the vet. No set back in the calves and just kept trying thriving. Sack withered away over a few weeks and fell off at about 4-6 weeks. No selling weanlings but carry everything to beef here.
The safety aspect cannot be under estimated.

Exact same here. I do the tagging, dehorning and put on the lamb rings all under 7 days. I have been using the rings about 5 years now and it’s brilliant and wouldn’t change back for anything. Keep everything to beef and kill out weights are up on average about 20-30kgs since I started on the rings.

Bass Reeves · 07-03-2021 12:27am

Jim Simmental wrote: »

Hello

As a suckler farmer With cows calving in the spring time, I have never castrated any of my bulls calves before.

However, over the last two years or so, I have found that my early Jan/Feb calves when sold in Oct/Nov weight 400kg plus, are nearly going down in value compared to lighter calves weighing 300 - 350kg.

I am thinking of rubber banding all my bull calves this year, would there be much more of demand for 300 - 350kg bullocks (taking account of reduced growth rates) compared to 300 - 350 kg bull weanlings?

What do most suckler farmer do with their bull calves? I suppose I’m just trying to add something to my output.

PS I’m not interested in using burdizzo as regards to my own health and safety - when they can be done as calves

Are they actually physically going down in price or is it they make less per kg than lighter bulls but more money. A buyer is paying for potential at lighter weights. It is relatively easy to put 100 kgs on a Continental weanling. A weanling on a half kg of ration and fairly decent silage as well as mins and bits will take off when he hits grass the following spring. At the end of the day all these cattle can only be taken to limited weights. The bull game is gone and U16 months bulls generally are at least 10c/ kg below the steer base price.

The question you have to ask yourself do these bulls make you extra money. If not then sell earlier at a light weight, if they turn more money do not be obessed with price per kg. Finally if you squeeze you really need to hold them until the following spring. It's as 400-450 kg bullocks in Late March/ April that they will turn me net. No need for a load of ration just silage and a kg of it balanced for mins and vits.

TooOldBoots · 07-03-2021 10:07am

A Jan/Feb calf weighing 400kg in October, I don't think you are doing too much wrong there!! Plenty lads with them sub 200kgs, they have a bigger problem.
I think you could sell them a bit earlier, prices are always very strong for the 300kg calf off the cow in autumn. I always sell them straight off the cow when they are hitting the 280kg+ mark, they will never look as good again, as soon as you remove them from the cow and they are on meal they just don't look as good, even if they gain weight.

patsy_mccabe · 07-03-2021 10:37am

I can never understand the obsession with price per kilo. Its meaningless. Younger cattle especially suckled bred ones, are always going to have a higher price/kg than older ones. Time of year comes into it too.

Bass Reeves · 07-03-2021 10:45am

There a beef farmer place I pass on the way to the farm every day. Up to two years ago every autumn you would see about 40 Ch and LM. Nearly all red LM and Orange Ch the odd white CH but rarely a black LM. Really front of the house field cattle. Last autumn 12 months I saw no weanlings and put it down to the fact he still had heavy cattle to slaughter because of the strike. Last Autumn he bought stores and no weanlings. All continental but stores all the same

When lads are on about 2.5-3/kg and beyond for these type of cattle as weanlings, with weight limits and beef prices I cannot se much return for 15-20 months work

Jim Simmental · 08-03-2021 9:31pm

Yes I think the logical thing to do is sell early in early September or so. I leave them as full bulls this year.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Are they actually physically going down in price or is it they make less per kg than lighter bulls but more money. A buyer is paying for potential at lighter weights. It is relatively easy to put 100 kgs on a Continental weanling. A weanling on a half kg of ration and fairly decent silage as well as mins and bits will take off when he hits grass the following spring. At the end of the day all these cattle can only be taken to limited weights. The bull game is gone and U16 months bulls generally are at least 10c/ kg below the steer base price.

The question you have to ask yourself do these bulls make you extra money. If not then sell earlier at a light weight, if they turn more money do not be obessed with price per kg. Finally if you squeeze you really need to hold them until the following spring. It's as 400-450 kg bullocks in Late March/ April that they will turn me net. No need for a load of ration just silage and a kg of it balanced for mins and vits.

What I found last year was any bull 400kg + sold was only about €2 per KG

Bass Reeves · 09-03-2021 12:58am

Jim Simmental wrote: »

Yes I think the logical thing to do is sell early in early September or so. I leave them as full bulls this year.

What I found last year was any bull 400kg + sold was only about €2 per KG

Ya I imagine moving them between 350-380 kgs would seem the logical answer. I think making bullocks is not the answer unless you hold until the following March

Calf castration

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