Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)

optogirl · 10-10-2017 11:04am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Oh come on, no one is that feminist or naive surely ???

Okay - not every single person allegedly assaulted (way too far using a word like that) was a victim.

There are women with little discernible talent - the odious Ms McGowan would be one - who would take the opportunity to perform whatever disgusting tasks Weinstein requested and use it as a career opportunity*.

Yes, like every story there are victims. Of course there are - and they far outweigh the chancers BUT you can't just go "man - bad and woman - good" in every scenario.

* Google Madonna's description of her "harrassment" in the early 80s.

I didn't say man - bad, woman - good. That would be stupid. I am asking specifically in the Harvey Weinstein stuff, who 'slept their way to the top'. Rosa Mcgowan was in her early 20's when assaulted by HW and didn't speak out at the time because very often, victims are not believed, especially in a culture where it's a case of 'that's just the way he is'. It is often the case that victims of sexual assault take years to finally speak out, because there is huge shame & guilt associated with it, however illogical that might be.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 11:05am

optogirl wrote: »

I didn't say man - bad, woman - good. That would be stupid. I am asking specifically in the Harvey Weinstein stuff, who 'slept their way to the top'. Rosa Mcgowan was in her early 20's when assaulted by HW and didn't speak out at the time because very often, victims are not believed, especially in a culture where it's a case of 'that's just the way he is'. It is often the case that victims of sexual assault take years to finally speak out, because there is huge shame & guilt associated with it, however illogical that might be.

Or she liked the fact that a relatively attractive girl with zero talent was making a name for herself due to her "putting out" as I believe our American cousins term it.

optogirl · 10-10-2017 11:09am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Or she liked the fact that a relatively attractive girl with zero talent was making a name for herself due to her "putting out" as I believe our American cousins term it.

It doesn't sound like she liked it. It sounds like she was really damaged by it. Your pointing out her level of attractiveness just confirms the bullsh*t that victims have to go through when they do come forward. You honestly think she felt lucky to be assaulted in a hotel room?

Biggest lickspittle on boardz · 10-10-2017 11:10am

George Clooney has weighed in with a very revealing statement:

'This is harassment on a very high level. And there’s an argument that everyone is complicit in it'

And that seems to be the closest thing to the truth. It's like a rapey version of the Wicker Man come to life; the whole damn lot of them are in on it.
They are more than happy to tolerate Disney child rapes (there is no indication that Weinstein is involved in this though), the odd drug induced overdose/murder, massive sexual exploitation, violence, threats, and extortion that would make the mafia blush.

There is no redeeming Hollywood and its depraved culture. Just take off and nuke the whole damn sorry mess from orbit and be done with it.

The only glimmer of hope I can see in this is that Trump has a major vendetta against the liberal Hollywood elites (and yes, he probably has skeletons in his closet too), and possibly there might be a congressional inquiry that will blown the whole damn thing to pieces for once and for all.

It's time to bring down the temple.

_Dara_ · 10-10-2017 11:14am

brevity wrote: »

I think a lot of people in the industry know what's going on but have accepted that this is part and parcel and that's depressing.

Some people want fame that bad. Most people shudder at the thought of fame, in my experience, but there is a large enough minority out there who actively want it and that all contributes towards it being an exploitative industry. I don’t see it as a gender issue either.

retro:electro · 10-10-2017 11:19am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I'm afraid that not all "abuse" is actually "abuse".

If you feel you need to sleep your way to success then I won't judge you - much.

But if you are dishonest about it, then yeah I will.

You're quite wrong actually. Rose's career has notably suffered while others who were complicit have prospered. She did not "sleep her way to the top". She was abused, she sued, and had a stagnant career as a result.

brevity · 10-10-2017 11:22am

_Dara_ wrote: »

Some people want fame that bad. Most people shudder at the thought of fame, in my experience, but there is a large enough minority out there who actively want it and that all contributes towards it being an exploitative industry. I don’t see it as a gender issue either.

Yea, I think some might feel it's a means to an end.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 11:24am

optogirl wrote: »

It doesn't sound like she liked it. It sounds like she was really damaged by it. Your pointing out her level of attractiveness just confirms the bullsh*t that victims have to go through when they do come forward. You honestly think she felt lucky to be assaulted in a hotel room?

Not everyone is a victim.

optogirl · 10-10-2017 11:25am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Not everyone is a victim.

Yeah so you keep saying. I am aware that not everybody is a victim.

Billy86 · 10-10-2017 11:27am

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

The only glimmer of hope I can see in this is that Trump has a major vendetta against the liberal Hollywood elites (and yes, he probably has skeletons in his closet too), and possibly there might be a congressional inquiry that will blown the whole damn thing to pieces for once and for all.

If you're expecting fondler extraordinaire and paedophile associate Donald Trump to do the right thing... well, don't hold your breath!

Penn · 10-10-2017 11:32am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Oh come on, no one is that feminist or naive surely ???

Okay - not every single person allegedly assaulted (way too far using a word like that) was a victim.

There are women with little discernible talent - the odious Ms McGowan would be one - who would take the opportunity to perform whatever disgusting tasks Weinstein requested and use it as a career opportunity*.

Yes, like every story there are victims. Of course there are - and they far outweigh the chancers BUT you can't just go "man - bad and woman - good" in every scenario.

* Google Madonna's description of her "harrassment" in the early 80s.

Rose McGowan has quite clearly stated that she was raped, and pressured into settling the case (and signing a non-disclosure agreement).

Bringing a case for rape/sexual assault against someone like Harvey Weinstein and reaching a settlement (with a payout of $100k as well if I remember right) due to the power and influence HW held over her career prospects isn't something she would do for a career opportunity.

Your argument seems to boil down to "She's not a good actress so therefore she must have had sex with him, then accused him of rape, then settled the case, all to advance her career"

You don't need to be a "feminist" or "naive" to think that line of thinking is horsesh*t.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 11:32am

optogirl wrote: »

Yeah so you keep saying. I am aware that not everybody is a victim.

It would not appear so however.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-10-2017 11:37am

brevity wrote: »

I think a lot of people in the industry know what's going on but have accepted that this is part and parcel and that's depressing.

I know a man who worked as a stunt man in Hollywood in the late 90s, dream job but he packed it in pretty quickly because of the things he saw going on, not even at parties, on set. And I don't mean groping, I don't mean creeps like Weinstein holding young actresses' careers hostage for sexual favours or just playing sick power games (Romola Garai's story is infuriating), I mean abuse of children by very famous and well regarded men, actively, materially facilitated by others and carried out blatantly. According to this guy it wasn't fear for his career that stopped him speaking out, it was fear for his safety. All he could do was leave and not be part of it.

There's one particular actor he described as evil.

brevity · 10-10-2017 11:54am

Sabrina Future Burger wrote: »

I know a man who worked as a stunt man in Hollywood in the late 90s, dream job but he packed it in pretty quickly because of the things he saw going on, not even at parties, on set. And I don't mean groping, I don't mean creeps like Weinstein holding young actresses' careers hostage for sexual favours or just playing sick power games (Romola Garai's story is infuriating), I mean abuse of children by very famous and well regarded men, actively, materially facilitated by others and carried out blatantly. According to this guy it wasn't fear for his career that stopped him speaking out, it was fear for his safety. All he could do was leave and not be part of it.

There's one particular actor he described as evil.

I do believe there is some shady child abuse ring going on. I've read some awful rumours.

You raise an interesting point about the stunt man being afraid of his life rather than his career.

Hollywood is a billion dollar industry, the idea that the only threat to someone who was repeatedly abused was "you'll never work in this town again" and they would be expected to keep stum is naive at best.

They or their family would be would be murdered. "Heroin overdose" or "Car crash". And the powers that be wouldn't thing twice about doing it either.

retro:electro · 10-10-2017 11:56am

Read this this morning-
"Kate Winslet breaks her silence on disgraceful and appalling Weinstein sex abuse allegations"

And at the end...
"Winslet next stars in Woody Allen's "Wonder Wheel" set for release December 1st"..
:rolleyes:

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 12:14pm

anna080 wrote: »

Read this this morning-
"Kate Winslet breaks her silence on disgraceful and appalling Weinstein sex abuse allegations"

And at the end...
"Winslet next stars in Woody Allen's "Wonder Wheel" set for release December 1st"..
:rolleyes:

That exactly the point, summed up right there.

Career. Career. Career.

Penn · 10-10-2017 12:15pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Email leaked that he apparently sent around certain circles within Hollywood trying to garner some support:

"If the industry supports me, that is all I need"

That's how he was able to do what he did for so long and get away with it. He shouldn't be let next door near the industry ever again. It's unlikely he'll ever face any criminal charges for what he's done, so at this point he'd be better off sailing into the sunset with his millions. His name is tarnished to the point where it's likely The Weinstein Company will be renamed in the next few months.

Outlaw Pete · 10-10-2017 12:42pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

I don’t see it as a gender issue either.

Oh you're right on that, it's absolutely isn't. Must have read a dozen or more autobiographies over the years by male actors that suggested they had slept with women in order to get roles. Especially stars from the 50's / 60's era. Most were nobodies at the time but some were already successful.

In fact a male Bollywood star actually has recently claimed that a female producer told him he would only get the role if he slept with her. He turned her down though.

I'm not so sure though that I'd feel all that sorry for anyone that shags someone for a role because they felt their career would nosedive if they didn't succumb (be they male or female). Perhaps if they were threatened in some fashion but just because they themselves felt that perhaps it would be best if they obliged? Nah. No sympathy. Many an actor and actress has walked and so why not them. At some point personal responsibility has to kick in. I recall Charlize Theron saying she walked out of some Director's mansion late at night after he told her she could have the role if she banged him. Gwyneth Paltrow and Cher did the same. Joan Collins in fact said she wasn't given the lead in Cleopatra because she wouldn't sleep with the producer. Liz Taylor got it. The role I mean.

As for actors and actresses that did frequent the casting couch and had no shame about it: Burt Reynolds, Tony Curtis and Joan Crawford would be the names that spring to mind. I don't think Marilyn Monroe ever admitted it but she famously threw herself at directors for prestigious roles too.

One famous story I'm surprised hasn't been mention so far (not just the thread, but online) is the infamous Thandie Newton one. For years it was spoken about that a video was doing the rounds of her masturbating for a director during an audition when she was 18. This director apparently screened it at parties on occasion and it got back to her so she decided to speak out about it and her story was that the director told her that it would be a scene for the film and so wanted to see how she would perform. Hhhm, not sure if it was before or after Flirting but would seem odd to me that anyone would believe a full on graphic (by all accounts) masturbation scene would ever appear in a mainstream film. I mean, we're talking about a time when Sharon Stone flashing pubic hair sent the world into meltdown. Who knows though, maybe she'll name him now. Certainly don't see any reason for her not to.

Outlaw Pete · 10-10-2017 12:59pm

Here's that Thandie Newton interview actually (where she talks about the audition - first time I've seen it) and in it she seems to suggest it wasn't near as explicit as I had initially read it was in a few articles and so I'd give her version more credence as a result. The way it was spoken about over the years was as if only her and the director were present and it was pornographic in nature. Not the case at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwP9OUwNZOE

Hope she names this guy now after all these years. Understandable not to at the time, of course, her career was just beginning, but now would be the time to shame such directors.

sbsquarepants · 10-10-2017 1:02pm

Sabrina Future Burger wrote: »

I know a man who worked as a stunt man in Hollywood in the late 90s, dream job but he packed it in pretty quickly because of the things he saw going on, not even at parties, on set. And I don't mean groping, I don't mean creeps like Weinstein holding young actresses' careers hostage for sexual favours or just playing sick power games (Romola Garai's story is infuriating), I mean abuse of children by very famous and well regarded men, actively, materially facilitated by others and carried out blatantly. According to this guy it wasn't fear for his career that stopped him speaking out, it was fear for his safety. All he could do was leave and not be part of it.

There's one particular actor he described as evil.

Is her story that she once seen a man in his dressing gown? That's all I can seem to find!

As for the guy being afraid for his safety - I don't think it's too far a leap to suggest that the kind of scumbag that will abuse women and even kids, might go that step further to protect all those billions of dollars!

Where there is that kind of money, there are always people willing to do whatever it takes to protect it! Doesn't make any difference how the money is made.

_Dara_ · 10-10-2017 1:12pm

I know him standing there in a dressing gown might seen tame but transplant that situation to your own place of work. Imagine being called to meeting with a higher up and them greeting you in a dressing gown?

sbsquarepants · 10-10-2017 1:21pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

I know him standing there in a dressing gown might seen tame but transplant that situation to your own place of work. Imagine being called to meeting with a higher up and them greeting you in a dressing gown?

A bit unusual, but hardly an ordeal now is it!

_Dara_ · 10-10-2017 1:28pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A bit unusual, but hardly an ordeal now is it!

A bit unusual? Come on now. And it’s what is implied by it. She would be going into the room for the meeting. A hotel room. And he’s in an item of clothing that if he sits, he could easily show brain. It is so inappropriate.

retro:electro · 10-10-2017 1:29pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A bit unusual, but hardly an ordeal now is it!

It's highly inappropriate. Minimal enough to not warrant an official complaint but coercive enough to leave a mark on someone.
It's a humiliating situation to be put in and all about his overt display of power you.

optogirl · 10-10-2017 1:32pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A bit unusual, but hardly an ordeal now is it!

It depends on the implication - if you're aware of the rumours surrounding the person, if you are feeling a bit at risk...it could come across as predatory. Unfortunately women have to be vigilant a lot of the time and anything a bit untoward or unusual can be very intimidating. Meeting your boss in his dressing gown could be humorous/intimidating depending on what you know of him, his general character & what the meeting was about.

Outlaw Pete · 10-10-2017 1:42pm

Reminds me of the Olivia Munn / Brett Ratner thing from a few years back where she wrote (in her book) about a similar thing happening in a trailer on the set of a film. She didn't name Brett but people knew immediately who she was referring to given the timeline and he pretty much admitted it was him on the Stern show shortly after.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 1:50pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Reminds me of the Olivia Munn / Brett Ratner thing from a few years back where she wrote (in her book) about a similar thing happening in a trailer on the set of a film. She didn't name Brett but people knew immediately who she was referring to given the timeline and he pretty much admitted it was him on the Stern show shortly after.

She stayed there long enough for that ????

Rjd2 · 10-10-2017 2:45pm

anna080 wrote: »

Read this this morning-
"Kate Winslet breaks her silence on disgraceful and appalling Weinstein sex abuse allegations"

And at the end...
"Winslet next stars in Woody Allen's "Wonder Wheel" set for release December 1st"..
:rolleyes:

Kate has also worked with Polanski. I like her, but yeah she's coming across as a hypocrite here.

Penn · 10-10-2017 4:57pm

The New Yorker now has a huge article with more stories about Harvey, including full accusations of rape and sexual assault, as well as an audio recording of Harvey trying to get a model into the bathroom with him, which was part of an NYPD sting operation.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/from-aggressive-overtures-to-sexual-assault-harvey-weinsteins-accusers-tell-their-stories?mbid=social_twitter

tara73 · 10-10-2017 5:15pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

Some people want fame that bad. Most people shudder at the thought of fame, in my experience, but there is a large enough minority out there who actively want it and that all contributes towards it being an exploitative industry. I don’t see it as a gender issue either.

sorry? no gender issue? what is this if not a gender issue? do you hear of any men speak up about being abused by this Weinstein or any other of this scum in power?
I havn't heard of. Please let us know which men that are!

Also the victim blaming here is quite unbearable. Saying it's the peoples own fault they get sexually harrassed because they would like to make a career in film and might have the wish to become famous?? And this gives this Weinstein and his friends the right to sexually harrass women?
What a crazy, sick, twisted, arrogant attitude.

I presume you work, yes? So how would you feel if you need to find a new job and at the interview the boss says you can go up his room, the bed is all fresh and ready for you both!! And then you say to yourself: oh, my fault I applied for this job..

A Little Pony · 10-10-2017 5:29pm

Venom wrote: »

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

It gets a hell of a lot darker if you read what Corey Feldman has to say about Hollywood.

Elijah Wood said Hollywood is pretty messed up for child actors as well.

http://variety.com/2016/film/news/elijah-wood-pedophilia-hollywood-problem-1201781021/

David Icke said that for years was happening in the elite institutions in our societies and no one batted an eyelid. Said the same about Jimmy Saville and so on. And now look, it's all true. People probably don't realize just how dark this goes and what is really happening in the world of entertainment and in general.

Ipso · 10-10-2017 5:29pm

In Mario Puzo's novel The Godfather, he painted a pretty grim picture of Hollywood in a few short pieces. the Hollywood exec with the mother and daughter awaiting an "appointment", the Oscars after party.
Given the role of Johnny Fontane was supposed to be based on Frank Sinatra, I wonder if he drew inspiration from anywhere else.

Billy86 · 10-10-2017 5:32pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

David Icke said that for years was happening in the elite institutions in our societies and no one batted an eyelid. Said the same about Jimmy Saville and so on. And now look, it's all true. People probably don't realize just how dark this goes and what is really happening in the world of entertainment and in general.

Direct me to the lizard people, because without them it's very hard to take Icke seriously which is somewhat unfortunate given that he has been correct on some things like Saville.

danmanw8 · 10-10-2017 5:34pm

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

The Hollywood hypocrisy is really exposed with this fella

Meryl Streep I'm hysterics over Trumps grab em by the pussy comments but was the first to give a standing ovation for Polanski even after all he's done and not word out of her criticize this creep

Didn't she say he made her do dodgy stuff back in the day too?

I remember I think it was Tina Fey made a joke at some awards directed at him and all the actors just groaned but once the camera panned to Wein laughing they all joined in, afraid of their lives of his influence even tho his antics were well known

I'm surprised Tina Fey's cracking jokes

Penn · 10-10-2017 5:34pm

Billy86 wrote: »

Direct me to the lizard people, because without them it's very hard to take Icke seriously which is somewhat unfortunate given that he has been correct on some things like Saville.

Aye. A stopped clock is still batsh*t crazy when it thinks lizard-people are in control of everything.

A Little Pony · 10-10-2017 5:34pm

Billy86 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

David Icke said that for years was happening in the elite institutions in our societies and no one batted an eyelid. Said the same about Jimmy Saville and so on. And now look, it's all true. People probably don't realize just how dark this goes and what is really happening in the world of entertainment and in general.

Direct me to the lizard people, because without them it's very hard to take Icke seriously which is somewhat unfortunate given that he has been correct on some things like Saville.

I doubt very much on that obviously but shouldn't detract of what is happening. Situations of politicians being involved in pedophilia and the intelligence agencies filming it so to use it for blackmailing purposes and to get them to go in the direction they want.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 5:34pm

tara73 wrote: »

_Dara_ wrote: »

Some people want fame that bad. Most people shudder at the thought of fame, in my experience, but there is a large enough minority out there who actively want it and that all contributes towards it being an exploitative industry. I don’t see it as a gender issue either.

sorry? no gender issue? what is this if not a gender issue? do you hear of any men speak up about being abused by this Weinstein or any other of this scum in power?
I havn't heard of. Please let us know which men that are!

Also the victim blaming here is quite unbearable. Saying it's the peoples own fault they get sexually harrassed because they would like to make a career in film and might have the wish to become famous?? And this gives this Weinstein and his friends the right to sexually harrass women?
What a crazy, sick, twisted, arrogant attitude.

I presume you work, yes? So how would you feel if you need to find a new job and at the interview the boss says you can go up his room, the bed is all fresh and ready for you both!! And then you say to yourself: oh, my fault I applied for this job..

If I'd blown my boss to get a leg up career wise and then cried rape 20 years later I'd be ashamed.

B0jangles · 10-10-2017 5:40pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

If I'd blown my boss to get a leg up career wise and then cried rape 20 years later I'd be ashamed.

Have you read the article just posted?

Here it is again, in case you missed it:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...social_twitter

I particularly recommend the section about Ambra Battilana Gutierrez, who he groped.
She reported the assault immediately.
The police put a wire on her.
She got him on tape admitting to the assault.
The case was dropped because she'd previously reported another man to the police for assault back in Italy.
What should she have done, in your opinion?

Weinstein has a decades-long pattern of luring young women into one-on-one situations with him and then either assaulting them or sexually harassing them.

He was until very recently one of the most powerful men in the industry, they were mostly just aspiring actresses and models - zero power, zero influence versus enormous power, enormous wealth.

Get off that high horse before you get altitude sickness.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-10-2017 5:45pm

I'm not sure it's the case that being subjected to the charms of Mr Weinstein did people any good in their career, it's that speaking up ran the risk of you getting ruined. And he knew that. And he took advantage of it. Not just with actresses. With news anchors he met at restaurants. With people working on the crew, in corporate etc.

Fun and all as it is to slut shame and doubt peoples stories maybe read the fcuking details of the case before you start spouting off.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 5:47pm

The very idea. Disagreeing with a woman!!!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-10-2017 5:48pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

The very idea. Disagreeing with a woman!!!

Jesus wept. Scarlet for ya.

PopePalpatine · 10-10-2017 5:52pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

The very idea. Disagreeing with a woman!!!

"Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 5:57pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

The very idea. Disagreeing with a woman!!!

"Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

No. I'm a woman. But I have my own opinions. Jesus wept indeed!

B0jangles · 10-10-2017 5:59pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

No. I'm a woman. But I have my own opinions. Jesus wept indeed!

No-one cares whether or not you are a woman .

Hope that helps.

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 6:02pm

B0jangles wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

No. I'm a woman. But I have my own opinions. Jesus wept indeed!

No-one cares whether or not you are a woman .

Hope that helps.

It does. Good to know there's only one opinion allowed and gender makes no difference to those with a different one.

B0jangles · 10-10-2017 6:08pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

It does. Good to know there's only one opinion allowed and gender makes no difference to those with a different one.

But no, seriously - what, in your opinion should Ambra Battilana Gutierrez have done?

She reported the incident immediately, she got evidence on tape but the case was dropped. Barring the use of time-machines to not meet Weinstein in the first place, what more could she have done?

What would you have done in her place?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-10-2017 6:09pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

It does. Good to know there's only one opinion allowed and gender makes no difference to those with a different one.

There have been plenty of different opinions on the thread about plenty of different aspects of the case. Most people seemed to have at least clicked one link before offering up an opinion though. And most people's opinions, while I didn't agree with all of them, were more thoughtful than "lol sluts".

PeterParker957 · 10-10-2017 6:13pm

Sabrina Future Burger wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

It does. Good to know there's only one opinion allowed and gender makes no difference to those with a different one.

There have been plenty of different opinions on the thread about plenty of different aspects of the case. Most people seemed to have at least clicked one link before offering up an opinion though. And most people's opinions, while I didn't agree with all of them, we're more thoughtful than "lol sluts".

I don't think I've said that exact phrase!

However whilst he is clearly a colossal pervert and deserves all that is coming to him there isn't a nice even divide here between predator and victim.

Some actresses definitely decided that their career would be helped by sleeping with him or watching him shower - ewww btw.

That just needs to be addressed

retro:electro · 10-10-2017 6:21pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I don't think I've said that exact phrase!

However whilst he is clearly a colossal pervert and deserves all that is coming to him there isn't a nice even divide here between predator and victim.

Some actresses definitely decided that their career would be helped by sleeping with him or watching him shower - ewww btw.

That just needs to be addressed

While there were for sure some who were complaisant- that does not mean everyone was as tolerant about what was going on. I don't know what you mean about there not being a nice even divide? Whether they were obliging or not he still abused them and abused his power, and they were victims of that. It's ironic that the ones who spoke out or sued have had stagnating careers while the ones who were complict have prospered.

Ulysses Gaze · 10-10-2017 6:28pm

Penn wrote: »

Aye. A stopped clock is still batsh*t crazy when it thinks lizard-people are in control of everything.

They prefer the term Archons...

Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)

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