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Now Ye're Talking - to a Bankrupt Student

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    #32
    Gat Dayum!
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Gat Dayum!


    In the initial boom years how did the business do? Did you save or reinvest at that time?


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    #33
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Great AMA, one of the things my old man always said to me was never to go into business on my own.

    He like you had to work all hours under the sun when running his business, said it was horrible when it happened .

    How did you feel when you walked away, were you happy to be out of it or did it hit you hard ?


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    #34
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Gat Dayum! wrote: »
    In the initial boom years how did the business do? Did you save or reinvest at that time?

    I made the mistake of leaving the money in the business to enable it to grow. Should have taken what I could.
    Calhoun wrote: »
    Great AMA, one of the things my old man always said to me was never to go into business on my own.

    He like you had to work all hours under the sun when running his business, said it was horrible when it happened .

    How did you feel when you walked away, were you happy to be out of it or did it hit you hard ?

    I was relieved when I locked the door and left, but my wife cried.....


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    #35
    Gat Dayum!
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭Gat Dayum!


    Did you declare bankruptcy? If you don't mind me asking, given your wife had dismissed, what did you live on? Do they take every penny you have in every account and leave you high and dry as part of the process?


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    #36
    dellas1979
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭dellas1979


    Do you owe money now?

    Am not 100% what bankruptcy means (in Ireland at least).

    Do you sleep better at night/have a better quality of life now?


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    #37
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Gat Dayum! wrote: »
    Did you declare bankruptcy? If you don't mind me asking, given your wife had dismissed, what did you live on? Do they take every penny you have in every account and leave you high and dry as part of the process?


    As previously mentioned, we were on means tested social welfare as the business wound down. It was as simple as SW seeing my earning from the business, then treating that as means. They calculated social welfare entitlement from that. When I filed for bankruptcy, I had all my ducks in a row. The IMHO had walked me through the process and filled out the relevant forms. I had to declare my assets (not much) and liabilities. The judge on the day reviewed the statements and declared me insolvent and granted my bankruptcy. I was one of about 40 people, one after another doing this, it was like a conveyor belt. I stood there bewildered and that was it. No fanfare, no shouting, nothing. I was told to go outside and a representative of the Insolvency Service of Ireland would talk to me. He confirmed my details and said he would be in touch.


    A couple of days later I got a letter from them telling me to inform my creditors of the judgement and refer all enquiries to them. End of story.


    I am allowed a certain income tailored to family need and circumstances. Any excess has to be handed over to pay my creditors. In my case, 2 adults, 2 kids, mortgage *(in special arrangement), and a car, I am allowed about 2600 euro a month to live. My income is about 2400 a month. There is no excess. My only assets are a house in negative equity (effectively valued at zero), a laptop and a second hand motorcycle. In other words, no assets. TV and house furnishings are modest and owned by family so not classed as mine.


    I am in bankruptcy for 12 months from last January. I understand that come January 2019, I will exit bankruptcy and can move on with my life. If I have had an excess income in the one year, I must pay it over to the insolvency service for three years to pay my debts. If I have no excess this year, then that is it for the other years. THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING
    I am a student on Back to Education allowance, there is no income to pay over. I am going into year two in college, this september.



    dellas1979 wrote: »
    Do you owe money now?

    Am not 100% what bankruptcy means (in Ireland at least).

    Do you sleep better at night/have a better quality of life now?


    I still owe the money, but my financial affairs are managed by the insolvency service. They assess what I can pay and look after it. I dont actually have anything. At this moment, my social welfare comes in tomorrow, which is good, I have 2 euro in the bank. My wife has 18 euro in the bank.


    I do sleep well at night now. I did have some serious trouble sleeping previously, the stress was killing me. I did spend some time in hospital with chest pains.


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    #38
    Santan
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Santan


    Would you try again


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    #39
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Santan wrote: »
    Would you try again


    Not a hope in hell! It affected my health, my family and my sanity.


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    #40
    Santan
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Santan


    I must say congratulations on coming through such a difficult and what can be a dreadful time of your life, for you and family and for doing the AMA, I was that soldier and was not able to deal with it in the manner you did I.e so quickly and proper channels. I am now 12 years in my new business and going strong but those nights which I'm sure you had were some of the worst I ever had, disappointed myself, family, workers, but the hardest step is not the first one up, for me it was the one back down, to admit defeat, and to try try try again. It took a long time for me to look back on what I tried to do and to look at it as a learning experience and I did learn. Never ever put yourself down for trying, so many do but more will never even try, good luck for the future and remember your fluglebinder is just around the corner. (Cocktail the movie reference)


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    #41
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Do you feel guilty knowing that you failing to pay your bills can and will potentially have negative effects on other businesses and other people's jobs?

    Are you paying your mortgage? Can you afford it? Will you chose for the property to revest, and if not where will you live given that you won't get a mortgage and mad rent prices?


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Were you a limited company or sole trader?

    If limited, had you tied personal assets to the business, as collateral?


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    #43
    Nokia6230i
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Nokia6230i


    Do you know anyone, personally or anecdotally who's played the bankruptcy card?

    For example by becoming a bankrupt tourist and legging it to England or Wales for a period and being declared bankrupt there instead because, I think, it used to be easier than over here to recover from?

    Does such a thing mean your creditors here in Ireland can't touch you subsequently?

    Do people, not you specifically clearly, squirrel money or assets away by signing it over to family to avoid it being frozen/seized?


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    #44
    idnkph
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭idnkph


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote:
    I found myself in a position where my business was gone and my personal debts were unserviceable. I had a glut of advisors helping me, but the final decision came down to me. I eventually went to a debt charity in Dublin who arranged everything for me. I bit the bullet and went to them. It was a cut and dried situation, so I was declared bankrupt in the High Court in January of this year.


    How long did the process take from the time you went to the charity to getting into court in January?


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    #45
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Do you feel guilty knowing that you failing to pay your bills can and will potentially have negative effects on other businesses and other people's jobs?

    Are you paying your mortgage? Can you afford it? Will you chose for the property to revest, and if not where will you live given that you won't get a mortgage and mad rent prices?
    All suppliers were paid. It was the vulture fund who was not. In my personal life, it was my credit cards went unpaid. My home is 50% warehoused so am paying the other half. The warehoused portion will still have to be paid. It's a family home, so like thousands of others, it's supposed to be protected. There are people playing the system who won't pay, I am not one of them.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Were you a limited company or sole trader?

    If limited, had you tied personal assets to the business, as collateral?

    The business was a limited company but I was technically the landlord so its on my head personally. At the time of the tiger roaring, it was in comprehensible things would go bad. Remember the government telling everyone things were fine?
    Nokia6230i wrote: »
    Do you know anyone, personally or anecdotally who's played the bankruptcy card?

    For example by becoming a bankrupt tourist and legging it to England or Wales for a period and being declared bankrupt there instead because, I think, it used to be easier than over here to recover from?

    Does such a thing mean your creditors here in Ireland can't touch you subsequently?

    Do people, not you specifically clearly, squirrel money or assets away by signing it over to family to avoid it being frozen/seized?

    I have UK connections and addresses, but so many people were going to the UK, Ireland changed their rules to make Irish bankruptcy similar. So no real benefit I am aware of.
    idnkph wrote: »
    How long did the process take from the time you went to the charity to getting into court in January?

    I think it was 2 or 3 months.


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    #46
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    I am on a 2 year college course extendable to a degree by doing 1 more year, or an honours degree with a other year. I was always weary about what I could do next, but I am blessed with the attitude of the college, social welfare and Susi. I want to give them credit as they are really helping me.

    My college is assisting me as it is soooo hard returning to education after nearly 30 years!

    My wife is doing a degree along with her part time job, so we are getting the finger out and expect to be well on track in 12 to 24 months. WE ARE NOT SITTING AROUND.


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    #47
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote:
    The business was a limited company but I was technically the landlord so its on my head personally. At the time of the tiger roaring, it was in comprehensible things would go bad. Remember the government telling everyone things were fine?


    I'm a big fan of banking expert and white collar criminologist bill black, one of his says is, 'behind every bad borrower is a bad lender', I do think people such as yourself have fallen foul to this. The link between the financial sector and our governments is a very dangerous one, it's actually undermining our democracy. we were well informed by people such as black during the boom what was likely gonna happen, we actually haven't listened much to their expertise, and sadly, not much has actually changed regarding these issues. It must have been an extremely stressful period in your life and your families, I wish you well


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    #48
    spurshero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭spurshero


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote: »
    I am on a 2 year college course extendable to a degree by doing 1 more year, or an honours degree with a other year. I was always weary about what I could do next, but I am blessed with the attitude of the college, social welfare and Susi. I want to give them credit as they are really helping me.

    My college is assisting me as it is soooo hard returning to education after nearly 30 years!

    My wife is doing a degree along with her part time job, so we are getting the finger out and expect to be well on track in 12 to 24 months. WE ARE NOT SITTING AROUND.

    You don’t have to justify yourself to anybody here . You done your best and things didn’t work out . I’m sure that upset you more then anybody else . There’s some very harsh comments from some on here . But most of these comments in general come from people who never have to worry on a Thursday night if they can meet wages etc for 14 people on a Friday .in general they worry about themselves and criticize others who try and fail . Best of luck with the new start .... might be the best thing that ever happened in the long run


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    #49
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I'm a big fan of banking expert and white collar criminologist bill black, one of his says is, 'behind every bad borrower is a bad lender', I do think people such as yourself have fallen foul to this. The link between the financial sector and our governments is a very dangerous one, it's actually undermining our democracy. we were well informed by people such as black during the boom what was likely gonna happen, we actually haven't listened much to their expertise, and sadly, not much has actually changed regarding these issues. It must have been an extremely stressful period in your life and your families, I wish you well

    That is an interesting view, but I am not blaming others. At the time, after working 10 years in the place, I knew the business inside out. The business did not change, the country did.
    It was fueled by aggressive lending by a bank called BOSI, when the crash happened EVERYONE got burned. BOSI fell on the sword.

    It is one of those things, I am not blaming anyone. I was lucky to have people to turn to. My buddy the accountant was a great support.


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote: »
    I am on a 2 year college course extendable to a degree by doing 1 more year, or an honours degree with a other year. I was always weary about what I could do next, but I am blessed with the attitude of the college, social welfare and Susi. I want to give them credit as they are really helping me.

    My college is assisting me as it is soooo hard returning to education after nearly 30 years!

    My wife is doing a degree along with her part time job, so we are getting the finger out and expect to be well on track in 12 to 24 months. WE ARE NOT SITTING AROUND.


    Made redundant myself in 2013 and did a conversion hdip and completely changed career.

    It's hard but worth it, well done lad. You're taking back control of your life (as is your wife). This is what social welfare is meant to be for.

    One thing, if it's possible. The honours degree (or any level 8) opens doors that bit easier


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    #51
    Bob Harris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Bob Harris


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote: »
    That is an interesting view, but I am not blaming others. At the time, after working 10 years in the place, I knew the business inside out. The business did not change, the country did.
    It was fueled by aggressive lending by a bank called BOSI, when the crash happened EVERYONE got burned. BOSI fell on the sword.

    It is one of those things, I am not blaming anyone. I was lucky to have people to turn to. My buddy the accountant was a great support.

    Do you think you could have changed the business in any way to have coped with the downturn or was it simply a case of people not spending and whatever you could have done wouldn't have been enough?


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    #52
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote:
    That is an interesting view, but I am not blaming others. At the time, after working 10 years in the place, I knew the business inside out. The business did not change, the country did. It was fueled by aggressive lending by a bank called BOSI, when the crash happened EVERYONE got burned. BOSI fell on the sword.


    I'd highly recommend blacks work, he's very well respected in the industry, hes also a former banking regulator, he helped Iceland with their banking issues, and was also invited to own banking enquiry, snippets can be found on YouTube. there's something fundamentally wrong with the links between the financial sector and our political institutions, this is potentially very dangerous for us all, banks are actually creating the majority of our money in the form of loans, freely at will, this is dangerous. This can lead to situations such as yourself getting badly burned in a down turn. We actually need people such as yourself, taking chances, within reason of course, creating employment and business, but you need protection for when things go bad, are our current systems good enough, are business owners protected?


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    #53
    PaddyBomb
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭PaddyBomb


    What area did you decide to go into in college and why did you pick this area?

    I presume you must have studied business or something before? Have you moved into engineering or science?


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    #54
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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    #55
    Sabre0001
    Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    Thanks for doing this AMA and best of luck with both your return to education and life after schooling!

    How long had you been considering / researching the declaration of bankruptcy?

    Do you think the penalties for doing so are fair or harsh?

    Aside from not being able to earn over a certain amount, have there been other things that you've run into so far as a result of declaring yourself bankrupt?

    And to end on a positive note, what were the positives of running your own business and being self-employed?

    🤪



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    #56
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    Do you think you could have changed the business in any way to have coped with the downturn or was it simply a case of people not spending and whatever you could have done wouldn't have been enough?
    Not really. The area went from a vibrant bustling area, to a cost town. I could sit on my window sill and look around. There would be no body around.
    PaddyBomb wrote: »
    What area did you decide to go into in college and why did you pick this area?

    I presume you must have studied business or something before? Have you moved into engineering or science?

    I was rudderless for a year, not knowing what to do. Social welfare told me my head wasn't there so perhaps I should go onto disability. They then wanted me to do a course for people who had been through the mill. My wife eventually dragged me to a college open night. It was daunting. I was the oldest person in the place. I spoke to a lecturer and he caught my interest in electronics. Didn't really look at anything else. I went home and on their website I saw a link to mature students. I emailed for an appointment and got a phone call minutes later. They spoke to me in detail over the phone and he went off, spoke to the Head of engineering and got me a place! The courses were closed already but I was told to apply via SUSI when the courses reopened at 2pm. They were waiting for my application!

    It has been tough going but I have the motivation. I am so far achieving around a 2.1 in electronic engineering.

    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No idea.


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    #57
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    PaddyBomb wrote: »
    What area did you decide to go into in college and why did you pick this area?

    I presume you must have studied business or something before? Have you moved into engineering or science?

    Electronic engineering. It caught my attention.


    Nope!


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    #58
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Do you have any regrets?

    Do you find you can relax and enjoy simple things now like a family day out without worrying about the phone ringing?

    Best of luck for the future.


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    #59
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Made redundant myself in 2013 and did a conversion hdip and completely changed career.

    It's hard but worth it, well done lad. You're taking back control of your life (as is your wife). This is what social welfare is meant to be for.

    One thing, if it's possible. The honours degree (or any level 8) opens doors that bit easier

    On the subject of opening doors, a major multinational household name has been in my college twice this year asking for level 6 and 7 to apply to them. If I could get in there on 43k starting, I would be happy to stay there. But that is in the future I hope.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA wrote: »
    On the subject of opening doors, a major multinational household name has been in my college twice this year asking for level 6 and 7 to apply to them. If I could get in there on 43k starting, I would be happy to stay there. But that is in the future I hope.

    Hey if the door's already open, walk right on through.
    Best of luck


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    #61
    I'm a bankrupt student, AMA
    Company Representative Posts: 32 Verified rep ✭I'm a bankrupt student, AMA


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Do you have any regrets?

    Do you find you can relax and enjoy simple things now like a family day out without worrying about the phone ringing?

    Best of luck for the future.

    Absolutely.

    We now do everything on the cheap. Adverts. Ie for deals, selling stuff we don't need etc etc. Family are helping us immensely, it helps keep our heads together.
    . We were away for Christmas, have family in middle East and they brought us out.
    I'm signing off now as I have to do work on the inlaws farm. She is taking us away soon for a break. I'm smashed. Got my social welfare today. 316 euro. 🙁


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