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THE BIG SNOWS OF 1947, 1963 & 1982
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06-09-2011 12:21pm#1
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nacho libre wrote: »I believe there was also a significant snowfall in Feb 1933, which deposited 2 feet of snow. Although there seems to be no account of it in that link?
Had a look at the wetterzentrale archive. I'd say it must have been this:
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Sponge Bob wrote: »1963 was like the 2 x 2010 freezes except it lasted a week or two longer than either of them and therefore froze deeper and harder.
Agree, but I would say that the 1962/1963 winter was a far more brutal winter overall than that of the 2009/2010 one, especially in terms of actual 'felt' cold.
Just having a quick look at the stats for both January 1963 & January 2010 (as both this months were the coldest months within these cold winters) they reveal that January 2010, while certainly chilly, would have been nothing compared to that that would have been experienced in January 1963. This would be mainly down to the strength of the wind and the air mass source in both months.
Mean MSLP map for Jan 2010:
Image Source: ECMWF
In January 2010, Ireland was for much of the time stuck under col to weak, slack ridge type conditions which kept winds light to calm for much of the month and as reflected in the chart above. My reckoning (open to debate) is that the predominant air mass during this month was Pm (or mP) sourced.
The mean monthly Sea level Pressure values at Malin Head, Dublin Airport and Valentia for January 2010 were amazingly similar:
Malin Head: 1015.0 hPa
Dublin Apt: 1015.6 hPa
Valentia: 1015.2 hPa.
A difference of just 0.2 hPa from north to south, and 0.6 hPa west to east!
January 1963 was a different story:
MSLP Map for Jan 1963:
Image Source: ECMWF
MSLP values for January 1963:
Malin Head: 1027.7 hPa
Dublin Airport: 1025.8 hPa
Valentia: 1022.8 hPa
A pressure gradient of 5.0 hPa from north to south, with the highest values at Malin Head suggesting that stiff easterly winds from the continent were the dominant force this month which would have have resulted in significant wind chills that were not really experienced in Jan 2010; also, mean relative humidity values in January 1963 were (and still are) the lowest January values on record which would have added quite a bite to the breeze.
Tables below showing mean air temperatures and relative humidity values for Jan 1963 & Jan 2010 at Malin Head, Dublin (Casement & Phoenix Park respectively) and Valentia Observatory:
Data source: KNMI
I think in terms of sheer brutality, the winter of 1962/1963 would triumph over that of 2009/2010 by a large margin. We can only envy those who actually got to experience it.
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People blame the politicans for everything
Parents were telling me in 1982, the government got huge criticism over what happened.
They held meetings, wrote a report and in the end nothing was done
Has anything changed these days
To be fair, it is better that nothing be done sometimes.
After '82 the Govt bought a snowplough - then the largest in Europe - which naturally was never needed again. Ultimately it went to Inverness........0 -
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I never said we needed the "biggest snow plough in Europe" to be bought again, but don't you find it abit annoying that the whole place needs to grind to a hault when we do get these bad conditions even if it is only once every now and then? Maybe it's just me but I think we should learn from the past and try be better equipped. We don't know whats down the line, I don't fully buy into the whole long range forecasting lark but it couldn't hurt to be somewhat prepared even if it means we're moving at a snails pace... it's better then not going anywhere at all if it snows!!
Just a though 0 -
StormGazer.11 wrote: »I never said we needed the "biggest snow plough in Europe" to be bought again, but don't you find it abit annoying that the whole place needs to grind to a hault when we do get these bad conditions even if it is only once every now and then? Maybe it's just me but I think we should learn from the past and try be better equipped. We don't know whats down the line, I don't fully buy into the whole long range forecasting lark but it couldn't hurt to be somewhat prepared even if it means we're moving at a snails pace... it's better then not going anywhere at all if it snows!!
Just a though
The point is, the big snows are listed here:
47, 63, 82, 2010. Bit of a pattern: only 4 in 60 years. If the country only shuts down for a few weeks once every 15 years its not too big a deal.0 -
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good man tony,im going to forward you as the "Snow Peoples" spokes person to argue this point when the snow haters come on here in winter,who's going to second the motionthetonynator wrote: »The point is, the big snows are listed here:
47, 63, 82, 2010. Bit of a pattern: only 4 in 60 years. If the country only shuts down for a few weeks once every 15 years its not too big a deal.:D 0 -
StormGazer.11 wrote: »I never said we needed the "biggest snow plough in Europe" to be bought again, but don't you find it abit annoying that the whole place needs to grind to a hault when we do get these bad conditions even if it is only once every now and then? Maybe it's just me but I think we should learn from the past and try be better equipped. We don't know whats down the line, I don't fully buy into the whole long range forecasting lark but it couldn't hurt to be somewhat prepared even if it means we're moving at a snails pace... it's better then not going anywhere at all if it snows!!
Just a though
I don't think the snow was that bad the last time. Where I am in Dublin, they simply did nothing about if for about a week. No grit nothing. There wasn't that much snow. They also closed roads for no real reason, meaning everyone had to do go down the same road and if there was a jam, or someone stuck, you couldn't route find around it to avoid it. They didn't even grit most of the main roads.
It didn't seem like they didn't have enough grit, as they claimed. It felt like they had no grit.0 -
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nacho libre wrote: »I believe there was also a significant snowfall in Feb 1933, which deposited 2 feet of snow. Although there seems to be no account of it in that link?
On the 23rd of February 1933 an area of low pressure met a block of high pressure to the north resulting in heavy snowfalls and blizzards over Ireland and Britain
Contemporary newspaper reports tell that conditions in Ireland were pretty bad leaving Ireland virtually cut off from the outside world for almost two days
There's also a brilliant account in [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A letter from Patrick McDonnell NT Ballinlough to his sister in Cortown[/FONT]
http://www.irishidentity.com/extras/weather/stories/bigsnow.htm
I also managed to dig out this British Pathe Newsreel film
"Blizzard aftermath. Hundreds of buses throughout the Irish Free State were held up by snow covered roads. Fallen trees and telegraph poles dislocated communications with all parts of Country."
Eire, Southern Ireland, Republic of Ireland.
Shots of Dublin in the snow. Wind is blowing the snow across O'Connell Street as the trams continue to go up and down. More shots of trams. People find it difficult to walk in the snow.0 -
On the 23rd of February 1933 an area of low pressure met a block of high pressure to the north resulting in heavy snowfalls and blizzards over Ireland and Britain
Contemporary newspaper reports tell that conditions in Ireland were pretty bad leaving Ireland virtually cut off from the outside world for almost two days
There's also a brilliant account in [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A letter from Patrick McDonnell NT Ballinlough to his sister in Cortown[/FONT]
http://www.irishidentity.com/extras/weather/stories/bigsnow.htm
I also managed to dig out this British Pathe Newsreel film
Thanks a lot for taking the time to get all this information Fionagus!
Snow Gods, any chance of a similar event this year? :pac:0 -
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I was an 8 year old living in Firhouse D24 back in '82. It was mega at the foothills of the Dublin mountains needless to say. I've no idea what it was like in Bray for '82 though. However, I was in Bray for '87 and that was over a foot deep down by the seafront, which is why last Winter I was often heard to say, "Yeah, 5 inches is great an' all but it ain't no '87" As several other Bray posters keep reminding me accumulations for the month last year as a whole just a little inland in Bray town were at the 9-12" mark...like that was supposed to make me feel better! Eh, no it makes me feel worse!! To know that the edges of the South County Dublin and Greystones Streamers were in actual fact crossing parts of the town while the seafront found itself in an even more unlucky thin corridor between streamers day in day out than I feared. It was nothing to do with elevation, just pure constant bad luck that my kilometer of coastline found itself in the gap bar 3 occasions during the whole month. 0
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