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07-12-2018, 09:26   #271
First Up
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I have posted there frequently but this is about cyclists.
Have you posted there telling motorists that they need to slow down? A link or two would be appreciated.
No, but if you want to tell me what is a safe speed for motorists to be able to spot unlit cyclists in dark and wet conditions I'll consider it.
The speeding issue goes way beyond unlit cyclists. Speeding is one of the top three causes of road deaths. Most road deaths are motorists killing themselves, other motorists or passengers. So getting motorists to slow down would have a significant impact on road deaths.

To answer your specific question, getting motorists to stick to the speed limit would be a great start.
And a cyclist hit by a car doing 49kph in a 50kph zone will be just as dead.

Look, I understand that martyrdom is an important part of some cyclists' psyche but with all those dangerous speeding motorists out there, don't you think they owe it to their families to do everything they can to get home safe?
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07-12-2018, 09:27   #272
Ray Bloody Purchase
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This is a bizarre thread.
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07-12-2018, 09:33   #273
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This is a bizarre thread.
Yep, I think someone accidentally divided by zero.
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07-12-2018, 09:40   #274
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...and then invaded russia in the winter.
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07-12-2018, 10:26   #275
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Hi First up,

A little summary:

No one here thinks cycling without lights is a good idea.

Hi Vis (and helmets) are actually very nuanced topics - two mega treads on the topics.

If we lived in a world of infinitive Gardai resources I don't think there would be any objection enforcing all relevant legislation for all road users. However, resources are limited so therefore most people would prefer enforcement to be directed in the area's where the most harm is caused. All stats point to motorist mis-behaviour as being the most dangerous thing on the road.

Nearly every cyclist I know (and here also on boards) is also a driver. The vast majority of drivers are not cyclists. This doesn't give us any kind of superpowers or anything but it does mean that most cyclists probably have a more nuanced opinion regarding issues around transport/commuting. The hi-vis and helmet topics being good examples - on the surface (or intuitively) they would seem to be good ideas. Scratch beneath the surface though and it gets more complicated very fast.
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07-12-2018, 10:39   #276
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And a cyclist hit by a car doing 49kph in a 50kph zone will be just as dead.

Look, I understand that martyrdom is an important part of some cyclists' psyche but with all those dangerous speeding motorists out there, don't you think they owe it to their families to do everything they can to get home safe?
Yeah. Going out on their bikes dressed like that - sure they are just asking for it.
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07-12-2018, 10:46   #277
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I have posted there frequently but this is about cyclists.
Have you posted there telling motorists that they need to slow down? A link or two would be appreciated.
No, but if you want to tell me what is a safe speed for motorists to be able to spot unlit cyclists in dark and wet conditions I'll consider it.
The speeding issue goes way beyond unlit cyclists. Speeding is one of the top three causes of road deaths. Most road deaths are motorists killing themselves, other motorists or passengers. So getting motorists to slow down would have a significant impact on road deaths.

To answer your specific question, getting motorists to stick to the speed limit would be a great start.
And a cyclist hit by a car doing 49kph in a 50kph zone will be just as dead.
Speed has a huge impact on survival rates
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I have posted there frequently but this is about cyclists.
Have you posted there telling motorists that they need to slow down? A link or two would be appreciated.
No, but if you want to tell me what is a safe speed for motorists to be able to spot unlit cyclists in dark and wet conditions I'll consider it.
The speeding issue goes way beyond unlit cyclists. Speeding is one of the top three causes of road deaths. Most road deaths are motorists killing themselves, other motorists or passengers. So getting motorists to slow down would have a significant impact on road deaths.

To answer your specific question, getting motorists to stick to the speed limit would be a great start.

Look, I understand that martyrdom is an important part of some cyclists' psyche but with all those dangerous speeding motorists out there, don't you think they owe it to their families to do everything they can to get home safe?
The most important thing cyclists can do to make sure that they get home safe is to clearly identify the root causes of danger. Unlit cyclists are not the big issue.
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07-12-2018, 10:52   #278
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Hi First up,

A little summary:

No one here thinks cycling without lights is a good idea.

Hi Vis (and helmets) are actually very nuanced topics - two mega treads on the topics.

If we lived in a world of infinitive Gardai resources I don't think there would be any objection enforcing all relevant legislation for all road users. However, resources are limited so therefore most people would prefer enforcement to be directed in the area's where the most harm is caused. All stats point to motorist mis-behaviour as being the most dangerous thing on the road.

Nearly every cyclist I know (and here also on boards) is also a driver. The vast majority of drivers are not cyclists. This doesn't give us any kind of superpowers or anything but it does mean that most cyclists probably have a more nuanced opinion regarding issues around transport/commuting. The hi-vis and helmet topics being good examples - on the surface (or intuitively) they would seem to be good ideas. Scratch beneath the surface though and it gets more complicated very fast.
Then why the hostility, sarcasm and "'what about the motorist" responses when I question why some cyclists increase the risk to their lives by not being visible?

There is nothing nuanced about wearing a (free) hi viz, using lights or wearing a helmet.

Going to step in here as a mod, as this is low. A bit of decency please.

Get your facts right, and choose your language more carefully in future.


Last edited by Weepsie; 07-12-2018 at 12:34.
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07-12-2018, 10:58   #279
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And you can say categorically that he would be alive if he was wearing a helmet?

No back seat modding, please. if you have an issue with another poster, use the 'report post' option.

Last edited by magicbastarder; 07-12-2018 at 12:21.
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07-12-2018, 12:16   #280
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Hi First up,

A little summary:

No one here thinks cycling without lights is a good idea.

Hi Vis (and helmets) are actually very nuanced topics - two mega treads on the topics.

If we lived in a world of infinitive Gardai resources I don't think there would be any objection enforcing all relevant legislation for all road users. However, resources are limited so therefore most people would prefer enforcement to be directed in the area's where the most harm is caused. All stats point to motorist mis-behaviour as being the most dangerous thing on the road.

Nearly every cyclist I know (and here also on boards) is also a driver. The vast majority of drivers are not cyclists. This doesn't give us any kind of superpowers or anything but it does mean that most cyclists probably have a more nuanced opinion regarding issues around transport/commuting. The hi-vis and helmet topics being good examples - on the surface (or intuitively) they would seem to be good ideas. Scratch beneath the surface though and it gets more complicated very fast.
Then why the hostility, sarcasm and "'what about the motorist" responses when I question why some cyclists increase the risk to their lives by not being visible?

There is nothing nuanced about wearing a (free) hi viz, using lights or wearing a helmet. A school principal died recently when a car reversing from a driveway knocked him over in broad daylight. He wasn't wearing a helmet; the driver was at fault but he is the one dead.
The driver wasn't reversing. He was driving in the same direction as the cyclist. Both driver and passenger stated in court that they had seen the cyclist. So I've no idea how you came to a conclusion that a helmet was significant.

Is it only cyclist deaths that you analyse? Do you go back over the 75% of road deaths that are motorists and passengers and see who might have been saved if they wore a crash helmet, or had a yellow car?

Last edited by Weepsie; 07-12-2018 at 12:31.
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07-12-2018, 12:36   #281
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Mod note: Look it suits me to have all the old clichéd arguments going back and forth in one thread, and one thread only.

Any more factually incorrect retelling of accidents, and victim blaming and you're taking some time out. A bit of decorum ffs
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07-12-2018, 12:42   #282
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Then why the hostility, sarcasm and "'what about the motorist" responses when I question why some cyclists increase the risk to their lives by not being visible?
Your missing the point, everyone here agrees about the use of lights. Everyoen here agrees thaqt being seen is very important (huge difference between being seen and being visible though, something to keep in mind).

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There is nothing nuanced about wearing a (free) hi viz, using lights or wearing a helmet. A school principal died recently when a car reversing from a driveway knocked him over in broad daylight. He wasn't wearing a helmet; the driver was at fault but he is the one dead.
It is actually very nuanced, you should read the mega threads and try and grasp the nuances before making such blanket statements. Ironically, Hi Vis does not always make you more visible, and in some scenarios makes you less visible, but read the mega thread and post there for that. As for the Helmet, same thing, there are several scenarios where wearing a helmet may increase in injury, many where it will reduce it, it is quite counter intuitive. The important thing to note is that in areas where helmets are mandatory, helmet injuries have not decreased but the number of cyclists have. Again though, a topic for the mega thread, not for here.

EDIT: Missed mod warning
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07-12-2018, 12:43   #283
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Unless you're a neurosurgeon or FCI and have seen the relevant evidence you cannot assert that a helmet would have saved Padraic Carney.

Not that you'll listen but helmets are only rated to prevent skull fractures. They're not tested as to whether they'll protect your brain.
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07-12-2018, 12:51   #284
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As the mods are unhappy I'll leave it at that. I wish everyone safe travels - and a bit of commonn sense.
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07-12-2018, 12:52   #285
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As the mods are unhappy I'll leave it at that. I wish everyone safe travels - and a bit of commonn sense.
I prefer rational logical sense. Lots of "common sense" has very little thought behind it.
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