Wetsuit Advice

Tibulus · 20-07-2014 12:32pm #1

Hi,

Been looking for a wetsuit for the past few weeks, eventually got the cash together to move on from doing triathlons in a surfing wetsuit!

Have tried a few on and can really see the difference between a 200 and a 300 euro wetsuit. The two that I have been most impressed with are the following:

Zone3 Aspire
http://base2race.ie/collections/wetsuits-1/products/atlante-wetsuit

ZeroD Atlante
http://www.greatoutdoors.ie/product_info.php?cPath=237_252_819&products_id=215686

Can any advise how would you compare the two on spec?

Has anyone experience with either/both suits.

sconhome · 20-07-2014 12:54pm

The Aspire would sit slightly higher than the Alante. The equivalent comparison would be the Zone 3 Vision Vs the Alante. You have quite a lot of choice in and around that price bracket.

Advice for someone already swimming and ready to do a few tris would be the Vision / Orca Equip level of suits. Going to Alante / Aspire / Orca Sonar is a step up in fit, quality and comfort. Nothing wrong with them as a beginner suit they will be more flexible and generally fit better as the materials are of a higher grade, thus the difference in price.

All good makes. Just be sure of getting good advice on the fit and handling of the suits.

RacoonQueen · 20-07-2014 3:14pm

Since someone has started the thread.

What are the benefits of the pricier wetsuits to your actual swim. More flexibility = faster swim? Or just less fatigue? Where would I actually see the benefits? Are there any advantages to a better suit for a slow swimmer?
Was looking at them in B2R a few weeks ago. €550 :eek:

sconhome · 20-07-2014 4:24pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Since someone has started the thread.

What are the benefits of the pricier wetsuits to your actual swim. More flexibility = faster swim? Or just less fatigue? Where would I actually see the benefits? Are there any advantages to a better suit for a slow swimmer?
Was looking at them in B2R a few weeks ago. €550 :eek:

Apply the laws of diminishing returns.

If you're going to ask about the piece of string, you have to look at the swimmer's abilities

A wetsuit won't offer shortcuts to training however there are some advantages over the levels.

There was an old thread somewhere where I had figures for 2XU where relative to skins, basic suit = 25% efficiency and level afterwards further 10%.

In brief (using Orca simply cos I know them better) and my own categorisations

Level 1 - TRN and similar - cheap, neoprene very basic, panelling basic, buoyancy basic
Level 2 - S5 - best for someone starting to swim in open water with little or no experience. SCS coated neoprene, reasonable glide, reasonable flexibility, ideal for sprint / olympic participants.
Level 3 - Equip - best for someone who has been pool swimming, is reasonably confident but yet to take on open water. Thinner SCS neoprene overall, balanced buoyancy, less fatiquing on shoulder. Sprint / olympic for people being competitive.
Level 4 - Sonar - seasoned swimmer going long. 39cell neoprene much more flexible and elastic than SCS = less fatigue on longer distances. Aerocell introduced to aid hip lift and rotation. Works on swimmers, useless for non swimmers. More panels and better fit overall. Olympic - Iron
Level 5 & above - Alpha 1.5 / 3.8 going to 39 / 40 /44 cell neoprene, more flexibility, balanced buoyancy, aerocell, infinity lining. Good swimmers looking for second skin fit with no drag or restriction.

Was looking at them in B2R a few weeks ago. €550 :

On this I had a delivery of Zone3 Victory (^Level 6 ~€780.00) as they were temporarily out of Vanquish (Level 5) they were snapped up by some really good swimmers when they compared the fit of the Victory with the mid level suits. We got a great deal on them and offered them out at €495.00 but everyone remarked on the fit, feel and performance of the suits.

All depends on fitting your budget to the ability to get the best return all round.

RacoonQueen · 20-07-2014 10:30pm

AKW wrote: »

Apply the laws of diminishing returns.

If you're going to ask about the piece of string, you have to look at the swimmer's abilities A wetsuit won't offer shortcuts to training however there are some advantages over the levels.

See this is what I wonder about wetsuits. Either you can swim, or, you can't. Me picking up a €600 wetsuit wouldn't improve my time greatly (if at all) would be interesting to test it out.

The main advantage I can see (with my limited knowledge) is that the fit may be better so you may fatigue less, particularly over the longer distances.

My wetsuit cost about 120 yoyos and I bought it off the internet, I may change my opinion entirely if I tried on something else..but as someone with a crap technique and who is slow and sh*t who can swim a *respectable* sub 30 olympic distance, I don't really get what an expensive wetsuit could improve that good work in the pool wouldn't!
I also know someone that has the €550 one from B2R that did Austria who did a 95 minute swim...and someone who did Austria with a <€200 wetsuit who swam sub 70 in Austria. So....

Sure there is plenty of science behind it like!

780 quid for a wetsuit. Wow!

I have been thinking of a new wetsuit so genuinely intrigued by all of this at the mo.

tunney · 21-07-2014 9:52am

RacoonQueen wrote: »

See this is what I wonder about wetsuits. Either you can swim, or, you can't. Me picking up a €600 wetsuit wouldn't improve my time greatly (if at all) would be interesting to test it out.

The main advantage I can see (with my limited knowledge) is that the fit may be better so you may fatigue less, particularly over the longer distances.

My wetsuit cost about 120 yoyos and I bought it off the internet, I may change my opinion entirely if I tried on something else..but as someone with a crap technique and who is slow and sh*t who can swim a *respectable* sub 30 olympic distance, I don't really get what an expensive wetsuit could improve that good work in the pool wouldn't!
I also know someone that has the €550 one from B2R that did Austria who did a 95 minute swim...and someone who did Austria with a <€200 wetsuit who swam sub 70 in Austria. So....

Sure there is plenty of science behind it like!

780 quid for a wetsuit. Wow!

I have been thinking of a new wetsuit so genuinely intrigued by all of this at the mo.

Think to remember is most tri stuff is overpriced. If you know what you are looking for you can pick something up cheap. Admittedly the better you swim the easier it is to get something on the cheap that suits you as there is less demand for these

RacoonQueen · 21-07-2014 12:15pm

I see cyclesuperstore have a 50% + sale on zoot wetsuits.

Off to buy a lotto ticket...

MojoMaker · 23-07-2014 10:19am

AKW wrote: »

In brief (using Orca simply cos I know them better) and my own categorisations

Level 1 - TRN and similar - cheap, neoprene very basic, panelling basic, buoyancy basic
Level 2 - S5 - best for someone starting to swim in open water with little or no experience. SCS coated neoprene, reasonable glide, reasonable flexibility, ideal for sprint / olympic participants.
Level 3 - Equip - best for someone who has been pool swimming, is reasonably confident but yet to take on open water. Thinner SCS neoprene overall, balanced buoyancy, less fatiquing on shoulder. Sprint / olympic for people being competitive.
Level 4 - Sonar - seasoned swimmer going long. 39cell neoprene much more flexible and elastic than SCS = less fatigue on longer distances. Aerocell introduced to aid hip lift and rotation. Works on swimmers, useless for non swimmers. More panels and better fit overall. Olympic - Iron
Level 5 & above - Alpha 1.5 / 3.8 going to 39 / 40 /44 cell neoprene, more flexibility, balanced buoyancy, aerocell, infinity lining. Good swimmers looking for second skin fit with no drag or restriction.

This is handy AKW. Would it be generally applicable across the different brands? Particularly interested in the jump to 39 cell neoprene, I would have expected that earlier than level 4 but good to know. Any comment on Speedo suits in that range?

sconhome · 23-07-2014 11:01am

In general most of the brands would have a similar tier system. Bearing in mind the Sonar is ~ €350 that could be a guide to the price points too. Spending 300-400 should have you in a fairly reasonable technically developed wetsuit.

TBH I'm not 100% up to date with Speedo or BlueSeventy suits so better if I don't comment on them. Just be very careful about forearm propulsion systems. There is another recent thread about those.

Tibulus · 23-07-2014 11:14am

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I see cyclesuperstore have a 50% + sale on zoot wetsuits.

Off to buy a lotto ticket...

Had the same taught myself until I realised that there was only XS or XXL left.

Thinking this is the best option:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WEZ3MASW/zone3-mens-aspire-wetsuit

Delivered for 300eur, typically 350 in Irish shops and 330 in wiggle and CRC.

Went to two different Irish shops to try it on and give the shop an opportunity to price match but everywhere seems to be low in stock with no availability to restock from zone 3. At least I got the sizeing right to buy online.

sconhome · 23-07-2014 11:22am

That's good value.

biomed32 · 26-07-2014 10:19pm

Sorry for hijacking the thread so to speak... I am looking for the best place to get a tri specific wetsuit second hand. I say second hand as my funds are extremely limited and wouldn't go beyond 130 euro and that would be pushing it. I am looking for something very basic. Its for open water swimming events I have signed up to over the next few months.

Tibulus · 26-07-2014 11:22pm

Would recommend hireing a wet suit. Know trizone in Athlone offer this service (for 80eur a season I think), sure other tri shops offer the same.

Other option would be try a few suits on in a tri shop, get the sizeing correct and try buy one off adverts or done deal.

I had done two tri's in a 100eur Lidl foam wetsuit. Causing chafing on the neck and arms. Generally uncomfortable but it just about worked. Didnt want to spend money on a wetsuit until I was sure I was going to continue in the sport.

cjt156 · 27-07-2014 9:04am

You'd get an entry level suit new for about that price point online. Need to be careful about sizing but that's what I did.

sconhome · 27-07-2014 10:50am

Tibulus wrote: »

Other option would be try a few suits on in a tri shop, get the sizeing correct and try buy one off adverts or done deal.

Shops love this :rolleyes:

biomed32 · 27-07-2014 7:59pm

I might be in luck for an ORCA wetsuit.

RacoonQueen · 28-07-2014 6:52am

AKW wrote: »

Shops love this :rolleyes:

Good to know. When can I come visit to try things on? :P

sconhome · 31-07-2014 12:23pm

AKW wrote: »

Apply the laws of diminishing returns.

If you're going to ask about the piece of string, you have to look at the swimmer's abilities A wetsuit won't offer shortcuts to training however there are some advantages over the levels.

There was an old thread somewhere where I had figures for 2XU where relative to skins, basic suit = 25% efficiency and level afterwards further 10%.

In brief (using Orca simply cos I know them better) and my own categorisations

Level 1 - TRN and similar - cheap, neoprene very basic, panelling basic, buoyancy basic
Level 2 - S5 - best for someone starting to swim in open water with little or no experience. SCS coated neoprene, reasonable glide, reasonable flexibility, ideal for sprint / olympic participants.
Level 3 - Equip - best for someone who has been pool swimming, is reasonably confident but yet to take on open water. Thinner SCS neoprene overall, balanced buoyancy, less fatiquing on shoulder. Sprint / olympic for people being competitive.
Level 4 - Sonar - seasoned swimmer going long. 39cell neoprene much more flexible and elastic than SCS = less fatigue on longer distances. Aerocell introduced to aid hip lift and rotation. Works on swimmers, useless for non swimmers. More panels and better fit overall. Olympic - Iron
Level 5 & above - Alpha 1.5 / 3.8 going to 39 / 40 /44 cell neoprene, more flexibility, balanced buoyancy, aerocell, infinity lining. Good swimmers looking for second skin fit with no drag or restriction.

On this I had a delivery of Zone3 Victory (^Level 6 ~€780.00) as they were temporarily out of Vanquish (Level 5) they were snapped up by some really good swimmers when they compared the fit of the Victory with the mid level suits. We got a great deal on them and offered them out at €495.00 but everyone remarked on the fit, feel and performance of the suits.

All depends on fitting your budget to the ability to get the best return all round.

Just following on from this post I was reading triathlete mag online and saw this wetsuit test which kinda highlights the difference in the suits.

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014/07/gear-tech/wetsuit-performance-test_103117/3

tunney · 31-07-2014 12:36pm

AKW wrote: »

Just following on from this post I was reading triathlete mag online and saw this wetsuit test which kinda highlights the difference in the suits.

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014/07/gear-tech/wetsuit-performance-test_103117/3

The devil is in the detail. (now remember why I let my subscription to triathlete lapse)

Lets use my swim in Frankfurt as a test case for my Blueseventy suit.

Lets use the first 400m
and then the 400m from 3000m-3400m

Do you think the numbers would be the same?

sconhome · 31-07-2014 1:47pm

tunney wrote: »

The devil is in the detail. (now remember why I let my subscription to triathlete lapse)

Lets use my swim in Frankfurt as a test case for my Blueseventy suit.

Lets use the first 400m
and then the 400m from 3000m-3400m

Do you think the numbers would be the same?

To be fair they did highlight that the best improvements were seen in the MOP swimmers.

Kurt Godel · 31-07-2014 1:57pm

I don't mean to shoot the messenger AKW, but testing only two swimmers in different suits, only produces data relevant to those two swimmers. No conclusions should be drawn for the larger population (the article alludes to this). Its a fluff article dressed up as a scientific test.

bryangiggsy · 31-07-2014 2:17pm

I will never swim in another wetsuit other than a Blue Seventy Helix. Have mine 5 years now and its still top notch. Bought it on blueseventy.co.uk for 400 pounds delivered if i remember correctly.

sconhome · 31-07-2014 2:37pm

Kurt Godel wrote: »

I don't mean to shoot the messenger AKW, but testing only two swimmers in different suits, only produces data relevant to those two swimmers. No conclusions should be drawn for the larger population (the article alludes to this). Its a fluff article dressed up as a scientific test.

I agree. Statistically its not significant. I was offering it out as a general snapshot that the people who get the most benefit from advanced suits are those with underdeveloped technique while elite swimmers only see marginal gains which could be the 1% difference between 1st and 2nd placings.

tunney · 31-07-2014 2:42pm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I will never swim in another wetsuit other than a Blue Seventy Helix. Have mine 5 years now and its still top notch. Bought it on blueseventy.co.uk for 400 pounds delivered if i remember correctly.

I will never ever swim again in a blue seventy helix, I have two and hate both.

MojoMaker · 05-08-2014 1:02pm

Although hard to read much into this with just two candidates but forgive me for wondering - the article seems to claim that the elite female swimmer saw a minimum of 9% additional efficiency across all the wetsuits tested, versus swimming in her tri suit, and the poor swimmer a minimum of 18% efficiency gain all the way up to 40% gain across the wetsuits tested?

Those figures seem pretty high.

Oryx · 06-08-2014 11:29am

tunney wrote: »

I will never ever swim again in a blue seventy helix, I have two and hate both.

How did you end up with two?

peter kern · 07-08-2014 3:06pm

AKW wrote: »

I agree. Statistically its not significant. I was offering it out as a general snapshot that the people who get the most benefit from advanced suits are those with underdeveloped technique while elite swimmers only see marginal gains which could be the 1% difference between 1st and 2nd placings.

that is obviously correct what you say who gains more from wetsuits in general but it also depends very much on the style of a wetsuit and the style of wetsuit is more important than the price certainly if should flexibility is not the main issue)

using orca and comparing two high priced suits the RS1 predator is likely too work better with the advanced female swimmer than than the orca 3.8 but vica versa with the less skilled guy and both would be high end priced suites.
if i have an advanced female that can kick there is prety much 0 chance that i would even ask that athletes to try the 3.8
at the same time a guy who cant swim is almost wasting his time to even try an Rs1 as the chance that he will get the most benefit out of that suit is pretty much 0 ( unless he was an ex rugby player who needs the most felixlbe shoulder there maybe is on the market and really nothing else works)

besides some of the advacned wetsuits are more cut for skinier athletes and might not fit joe blocks that well.

To be fair the test really says that for some people a cheaper wetsuit can be faster than an expensive one ;-)

in case of the hurricane5 there is a good chance that the 3 is faster for the less skilled male swimmer than the 5 ( especially if shoulder flexibility is not a real concern) so this swimmer could pick up a cheaper wetsuit that is faster and on top is less fragile.
(I use this one as the hurricane 3 was kind of the winner in the test last year for the less skilled swimmer and they used the 5 this year )

while the 5 would almost certainly be faster for the female athlete used in this test than the 3 .

and as tunney nicely says an advanced wetsuit that works very well for one might be a nightmare for the other.

kneejerk · 14-08-2014 3:30pm

Could anyone explain the difference between Huub buoyancy ratios? i.e. they have 4:4 and 3:5 versions of their suits?

sconhome · 14-08-2014 3:40pm

kneejerk wrote: »

Could anyone explain the difference between Huub buoyancy ratios? i.e. they have 4:4 and 3:5 versions of their suits?

4:4 suits good swimmers the 3:5 is for poor swimmers with sinky legs

kneejerk · 14-08-2014 4:02pm

Cheers...it would be a 3:5 for me so.

Tibulus · 19-08-2014 10:24am

See planet X UK are having a excellent sale. Zone3 Aspire for 215eur, typically 350 in shops. Few other brands if anyone interested.

P2C · 19-08-2014 1:20pm

Bought a Huub 4:4 as I have excellent buoyancy in the pool. Reasonable standard of swimmer. SUB 11 mins for 750 in openwater or 5:30 400m in the pool. The HUUB is a very comfortable suit and feels like the nicest suit I have ever swam in over the last 20 years. However I started to notice effort level had to increase in the open water and was losing time approx ( 30 secs) over 750 to swimmers I normally exit the water very close to and was even further behind in Olympics.

I race regularly enough with the same crew and with the national series you I always seem to pop out of the water with the same group. I went back to my Floor Quantum and hey presto I was exiting with the same crew of swimmers or slightly ahead. I am not saying the HUBB isn't a fast suit but the suit that was half the value was quicker. I clarified this by doing an semi objective test in the pool. 400mter repeats with a finis tempo trainer on stroke rate @ my stroke rate with the different suits. I repeated the test and reversed the order of wearing suits and found a noticeable difference.

I suppose the learning is what works for one person might not for another. I will be trying a range of suits this winter as they are both falling apart. I am considering wearing the HUUB for my Ironman based on comfort. But 3.8k isnt that long

peter kern · 19-08-2014 3:52pm

more confortable is not neccesarely faster and your example confirms that nicely.
A good read thanks

kneejerk · 19-08-2014 4:23pm

Interesting P2C.

I would have thought the Huub 4:4 would be perfect for a swimmer like you so it’s very surprising to see if take 30 secs off your time!

Which Huub did you buy? Just wondering how long you got out of it?

P2C · 19-08-2014 5:05pm

Don't always believe the marketing

. I purchased the suit 2012 season and have used alternating with another suit. I swim OW approx 3-4 times per week from June-September. It started showing signs of splitting at the seams during 2012 and under the arm pits and was sent back twice for repair under warranty (2years). I might send back at the end of season myself and I say I will get next season out of it as well. In relation to longevity I would rank it a bit on the brittle side but not really much different than anything else I have used. I must say I had no problems with the company and customer care was very good. Returned and repaired with no hassles. I have a friend that got his replaced twice but for bigger splits. I also no another person who had zero hassle with his suit. I purchased when they were originally launched

Yellow_Blue · 02-08-2020 5:11pm

Could someone please advise wet-suit for casual summer sea swimming , kayaking and paddle boarding? The goal is to to avoid rented wet-suits

sconhome · 04-08-2020 12:57pm

Yellow_Blue wrote: »

Could someone please advise wet-suit for casual summer sea swimming , kayaking and paddle boarding? The goal is to to avoid rented wet-suits

Hopefully you won't get pinged for a thread resurrection.

It really depends on how much swimming you plan to do. I picked up a very cheap suit for coasteering and kayaking which is fine to do occasional swims with. It is no where near as flexible as my swim wetsuit but is far more durable and able to take knocks and dings. Its a 3mm suit.

The neoprene in swimming suits has a fine coating and tears easily.

Wetsuit Advice

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